Ellesmere Port - Helsby cancellations

[Old Yard Dog]

Recenttraintimes.co.uk is showing that, over the last 3 months, the

0633 ELP-HSB ran 32 times and was cancelled 30 times
1906 ELP-HSB ran 27 times and was cancelled 36 times

This level of unreliability of what is verging on a parliamentary service strikes me as disgraceful.

 

[frodshamfella]

Merseyrail should be running this service.

 

[Llandudno]

Perhaps it needs withdrawing altogether, and just provide a taxi for any intending passengers?

 

[Kite159]

I guess in the grand scheme of things, if Northern are short staff it is better to cancel the little used shuttle (which I suspect most days will be carrying fresh air or the odd track/station basher) to allow a Chester - Manchester service to run instead. For the greater good.

But agreed with @frodshamfella if the battery trains on Merseyrail go without issue, then they should consider taking it over, at least on a trial basis.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

They've already done that. The fledgling two-a-day Ellesmere Port to Leeds service was diverted to Chester a couple of years ago with the Ellesmere Port line reduced to a shuttle to Helsby.

Northern have also reduced the four a day service on the branch in the original PSR to two a day over the last few years by stealth. Now it seems they can't be bothered running it at all. There is seldom a day when the morning and evening trains both run, making it next to useless for return trips to Manchester.

 

[Llandudno]

I guess in the grand scheme of things, if Northern are short staff it is better to cancel the little used shuttle (which I suspect most days will be carrying fresh air or the odd track/station basher) to allow a Chester - Manchester service to run instead. For the greater good.

But agreed with @frodshamfella if the battery trains on Merseyrail go without issue, then they should consider taking it over, at least on a trial basis.

I doubt Merseyrail would be interested in extending Ellesmere Port trains to Helsby, it’s a basket case!

Move on and focus on Merseyrail extending to Skelmersdale/Wigan or Burscough Bridge or Wrexham Central where there are potentially far more passengers.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

How do you know it's a basket case? The service has, to all intents and purposes, been unusable for connections to & from Manchester and beyond for the last 20 years.

But I agree with you about Wigan. Building a terminus station at Headbolt Lane is perhaps the most ridiculous example yet of services stopping at or just beyond county boundaries. Others include Worksop, Newark, Ormskirk and Adwick.

 

[Krokodil]

doubt Merseyrail would be interested in extending Ellesmere Port trains to Helsby, it’s a basket case!

You doubt wrong because they are very much interested, so long as the battery trial on the 777s goes well. Few people use the existing service because - as other posters have said - it's virtually impossible to use, but for Merseyrail it will be cheap to diagram as a short extension of the existing service. It does allow passengers between Ellesmere Port and Manchester to avoid going via Hooton, as well as serving the minor stations en route

 

[Eloise]

How do you know it's a basket case? The service has, to all intents and purposes, been unusable for connections to & from Manchester and beyond for the last 20 years.

But I agree with you about Wigan. Building a terminus station at Headbolt Lane is perhaps the most ridiculous example yet of services stopping at or just beyond county boundaries. Others include Worksop, Newark, Ormskirk and Adwick.

In Newark's defence getting decent paths over the flat crossing is a bigger reason.

 

[BPN2022]

Heysham Port service seems to be getting cancelled a fair bit at the moment

 

[Kite159]

Heysham Port service seems to be getting cancelled a fair bit at the moment

Isn't it only a small number of Lancaster (?) based guards which sign Morecambe to Heysham?

Better to cancel the Heysham service (putting on a replacement bus from Morecambe or Lancaster) than it will be to cancel a service for barrow etc

 

[janb]

Isn't it only a small number of Lancaster (?) based guards which sign Morecambe to Heysham?

Barrow based drivers and conductors.

 

[frodshamfella]

I doubt Merseyrail would be interested in extending Ellesmere Port trains to Helsby, it’s a basket case!

Move on and focus on Merseyrail extending to Skelmersdale/Wigan or Burscough Bridge or Wrexham Central where there are potentially far more passengers.

Im not sure it is a basket case, its just not been run for benefit of passengers for far too long. To terminate at Helsby rather than
Eport for Merseyrail and give Ince and Elton a decent service, then onward connections would be most useful. It would also remain self contained.

How do you know it's a basket case? The service has, to all intents and purposes, been unusable for connections to & from Manchester and beyond for the last 20 years.

But I agree with you about Wigan. Building a terminus station at Headbolt Lane is perhaps the most ridiculous example yet of services stopping at or just beyond county boundaries. Others include Worksop, Newark, Ormskirk and Adwick.

It should have continued to Wigan for sure. Would have been a great ' Levelling up ' opportunity, if that means anything at all.

 

[Kite159]

Im not sure it is a basket case, its just not been run for benefit of passengers for far too long. To terminate at Helsby rather than
Eport for Merseyrail and give Ince and Elton a decent service, then onward connections would be most useful. It would also remain self contained.

Even if they fix the footbridge at Stanlow it could potentially generate use with people who work there using the train to travel to/from work, rather than using a car (or bike if they live close enough to ride)

 

[Watershed]

Isn't it only a small number of Lancaster (?) based guards which sign Morecambe to Heysham?

Lancaster guards? That would be far too sensible! Morecambe services are worked by a mixture of Wigan, Barrow and Skipton crew. Only Barrow sign Heysham though.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Even if they fix the footbridge at Stanlow it could potentially generate use with people who work there using the train to travel to/from work, rather than using a car (or bike if they live close enough to ride)

Indeed. In the 1980's, there were a couple of additional Stanlow - Rock Ferry workings in the peaks to supplement the hourly Hooton - Helsby workings with a small ticket office on the platform at Stanlow & Thornton.

However trains would have to tie in with shift patterns - and Stanlow has far fewer employees now than then.

Interestingly about 15 years ago, when I was on the local public transport liaison committee, there was talk about building a branch from Ellesmere Port to Cheshire Oaks. But the Merseyside powers that be refused to support this, saying it would extract shoppers from Liverpool. Other pitiful excuses were offered including the sharpness of the curve off the exiting line - and the need for additional units as shoppers would only use the train if they saw one waiting in the platform at Cheshire Oaks, so a large dwell time would be needed. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Parjon]

Helsby extension would be good because of the connectivity. Build a park and ride off the motorway as well and I think it would be incredibly successful.

 

[frodshamfella]

Indeed. In the 1980's, there were a couple of additional Stanlow - Rock Ferry workings in the peaks to supplement the hourly Hooton - Helsby workings with a small ticket office on the platform at Stanlow & Thornton.

However trains would have to tie in with shift patterns - and Stanlow has far fewer employees now than then.

Interestingly about 15 years ago, when I was on the local public transport liaison committee, there was talk about building a branch from Ellesmere Port to Cheshire Oaks. But the Merseyside powers that be refused to support this, saying it would extract shoppers from Liverpool. Other pitiful excuses were offered including the sharpness of the curve off the exiting line - and the need for additional units as shoppers would only use the train if they saw one waiting in the platform at Cheshire Oaks, so a large dwell time would be needed. You couldn't make it up.

That would have been a good idea Cheshire Oaks is swamped with cars.

 

[Djgr]

It is worth reiterating that none of the Ellesmere Port-Helsby line is within Liverpool City Region. So it is another case where the good folks of (West) Cheshire need to put their hands in their pockets.

 

[scrapy]

Lancaster guards? That would be far too sensible! Morecambe services are worked by a mixture of Wigan, Barrow and Skipton crew. Only Barrow sign Heysham though.

Blackpool crews also sign to Morecambe (not Heysham).

 

[Llandudno]

Helsby extension would be good because of the connectivity. Build a park and ride off the motorway as well and I think it would be incredibly successful.

Surely they are already driving to Hooton, 6 trains per hour to Liverpool, huge cheap car park and reasonably priced train fares?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

It is worth reiterating that none of the Ellesmere Port-Helsby line is within Liverpool City Region. So it is another case where the good folks of (West) Cheshire need to put their hands in their pockets.

No it isn't

 

[Djgr]

Helsby extension would be good because of the connectivity. Build a park and ride off the motorway as well and I think it would be incredibly successful.

If you go to Helsby station you will see that it is challenging to do this there. Railtrack or the like flogged off the land by the station for "executive housing". Ellesmere Port would be a more achievable option but then you don't need the Helsby line!

No it isn't

Ah well. Chance of happening nil then

 

[childwallblues]

When the 777s started running to Kirkby there was an on board video made by Geoff Marshall who interviewed a Merseytravel spokesman who when asked were a 777 could potentially go in future he said Warrington Bank Quay.

 

[frodshamfella]

It is worth reiterating that none of the Ellesmere Port-Helsby line is within Liverpool City Region. So it is another case where the good folks of (West) Cheshire need to put their hands in their pockets.

Living in that authority Cheshire West are pretty poor with respect to public transport.

When the 777s started running to Kirkby there was an on board video made by Geoff Marshall who interviewed a Merseytravel spokesman who when asked were a 777 could potentially go in future he said Warrington Bank Quay.

Ive seen Runcorn East mentioned as a termination station, which strikes me as a bit of an odd location, why not continue to WBQ, where you can connect.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

If you go to Helsby station you will see that it is challenging to do this there. Railtrack or the like flogged off the land by the station for "executive housing". Ellesmere Port would be a more achievable option but then you don't need the Helsby line!


Ah well. Chance of happening nil then

There is a large free car park at Ellesmere Port station already, but it is poorly used due to competition from Hooton.

Hooton has

direct trains to Chester
many more trains to Liverpool
cheaper fares (Liverpool 5.35 return compared with Ellesmere Port 7.05)

and is perceived as safer than Ellesmere Port as it is in a rural location with CCTV and you need to have a car park entry ticket and pay £1 to raise the barrier to get out of the car park

 

[Parjon]

Surely they are already driving to Hooton, 6 trains per hour to Liverpool, huge cheap car park and reasonably priced train fares?

Depends where they are coming from and where they are headed to.

It's not just Central Liverpool that park and riders could head to, but also Chester, Warrington, E'Port, South Liverpool and Manchester.

This is also indicative of the connectivity on offer for rail passengers heading to Helsby from South Wirral.

 

[Djgr]

Depends where they are coming from and where they are headed to.

It's not just Central Liverpool that park and riders could head to, but also Chester, Warrington, E'Port, South Liverpool and Manchester.

This is also indicative of the connectivity on offer for rail passengers heading to Helsby from South Wirral.

Helsby has a car park. It has 21 spaces!

 

[jamesst]

Helsby has a car park. It has 21 spaces!

Ellesmere Port has a bigger one again but noone in there right mind would ever take a chance and park there.

 

[paddyb6]

Ive seen Runcorn East mentioned as a termination station, which strikes me as a bit of an odd location, why not continue to WBQ, where you can connect.

Agreed, I believe the rationale of this is avoiding conflicting moves which may disrupt the network, e.g. avoiding WCML delays being brought into the Merseyrail network, if a Warrington/Hooton service is late, it may disrupt a Chester, which then may disrupt a WK or NB etc. etc.