EMR applies to run more Nottingham to Lincoln trains from December 2025

[43074]

EMR have applied to the Office and Rail and Road to extend the Crewe to Newark Castle services to Lincoln from December 2025. They also appear to be proposing retimings to other EMR Regional routes in Lincolnshire to improve connections with long distance services at Peterborough, Lincoln and Doncaster, and at Sleaford between Lincoln to Peterborough and Nottingham to Skegness trains to "complement" the new East Coast timetable.

I've quoted the relevant section from the Track Access application below:

The EMR regional services between Nottingham and Lincoln suffers from frequent overcrowding, which is constraining demand growth. In the peak period at Nottingham 4 out of 5 services have passengers standing, and at Lincoln many services from late afternoon have more than 90% of seats occupied. The strong demand continues in the off-peak, with weekday services between 10:00 and 15:59 having an average critical load of more than 70%. At weekends the problem is worse, and so far, this calendar year we have had 65 instances of full and standing services on Saturdays. This is only the instances reported by onboard staff to control, many do not get reported. By comparison, on a weekday the Newark Castle services have average loadings of less than 20% in the off-peak, increasing to approximately 50% in the peak.
Therefore, to spread demand and reduce crowding on trains, East Midlands Railway is proposing to extend the slower Newark Castle service to Lincoln. The stopping train has a journey time of 59 minutes, compared to 50-52 minutes on the fast train. Because the trains are evenly spaced from origin, some passengers will switch to the slower service. This will be further encouraged by the extension of Advance Purchase tickets onto the Nottingham to Lincoln route, offering a wider choice of fares and better value for money to passengers. A lower price can be offered to help spread demand onto the slower services.

Alongside plans to increase services on the Castle Line, we have decreased the journey time on LNER services between London King’s Cross and Lincoln by an average of 4 minutes. Our proposed timetable on the Castle Line, has provided an opportunity to provide additional benefits on other parts of the network to complement the East Coast ESG timetable. These include:
 Better connections with LDHS services at Peterborough and Doncaster
 Improved connections at Sleaford for journeys between Lincoln and Boston / Skegness
 Improved connections at Lincoln for journeys between London King’s Cross and Market Rasen / Barnetby / Habrough / Grimsby Town / Cleethorpes
 Extension of Nottingham services from Grimsby Town to Cleethorpes.

Link to the track access application is here: https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blo...th SA Form-P (Castle line) FINAL 20240520.pdf

 

[duffield]

Huh. I thought the flat crossing over the ECML at Newark meant there were no slots available for a second Nottingham to Lincoln per hour (and vice versa) service to cross in, and that would only be sorted out by a (highly improbable and expensive) flyover? Has something changed to make this possible? Or is this application still doomed for that reason?

 

[Trainman40083]

I wonder if extending the Crewe to Derby service to Newark and possibly to Lincoln has made trains run late more. In the days when they used to run through to Skegness, they often ran late or turned at Stoke to get back on time

 

[edwin_m]

Huh. I thought the flat crossing over the ECML at Newark meant there were no slots available for a second Nottingham to Lincoln per hour (and vice versa) service to cross in, and that would only be sorted out by a (highly improbable and expensive) flyover? Has something changed to make this possible? Or is this application still doomed for that reason?

Possibly a consequence of the demise of the latest attempt to introduce a timetable that increases ECML paths? The argument may go (rightly or wrongly) that if a timetable was produced that made those paths possible, and the timetable is now abandoned, then there must be capacity for other things on (or crossing) the ECML.

 

[55018ballymoss]

I agree with Edwin. There is certainly capacity right now for this extension. If it remains when the improved ECML timetable is introduced (if it ever is!), may not be the case. I am not sure if EMR could secure much more than a temporary agreement to this extension with the new ECML timetable still in development?
Of more concern for me in the document is the assertion that they will enhance the Joint Line service with enhanced connections into LDHS at Doncaster, where they make mention of using the bi directional line between Black Carr Junction and Doncaster station. That hints that they are wanting to use platform 2 at Doncaster for the services. This is all well and good except that Class 170 units are barred from Platform 2 in the Sectional Appendix, and EMR predominantly use class 170 units on the Joint Line services.

 

[DDB]

I hope that before doing anything else with the Crewe to Newark services they return the last missing diagram that leads to random gaps in the otherwise hourly service.

 

[43055]

I hope that before doing anything else with the Crewe to Newark services they return the last missing diagram that leads to random gaps in the otherwise hourly service.

Agreed. This should really be sorted.

 

[LowLevel]

I hope that before doing anything else with the Crewe to Newark services they return the last missing diagram that leads to random gaps in the otherwise hourly service.

It's on the list for next year, apparently, of course listed as an "improvement".

 

[High Dyke]

Ah, so no improvements or addressing issues on the Lincoln - Grimsby - Cleethorpes services.

 

[Travelmonkey]

I hope that before doing anything else with the Crewe to Newark services they return the last missing diagram that leads to random gaps in the otherwise hourly service.

Almost got caught in the missing gap last week luckily caught a earlier service as it was running late. I do have concerns as Stoke turnbacks are a common occourance I end up being stung by so on paper a Crewe Lincoln route sounds great but operationally could fall especially with the various pinch points and the Derby turnaround negotiating 3 major intercity lines (WCML, XC ML & MML) adding into that the ECML flat crossing could cause issues.

 

[ChrisC]

Almost got caught in the missing gap last week luckily caught an earlier service as it was running late. I do have concerns as Stoke turnbacks are a common occourance I end up being stung by so on paper a Crewe Lincoln route sounds great but operationally could fall especially with the various pinch points and the Derby turnaround negotiating 3 major intercity lines (WCML, XC ML & MML) adding into that the ECML flat crossing could cause issues.

Crewe-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham-Lincoln way back in the past was always the main hourly service pattern on this route. I used it regularly in the 1970’s to travel between Lowdham and Derby. It was operated using the old Swindon Class 120MU’s and I can’t remember any regular delays or problems or turning back trains at Stoke. Perhaps there was a longer turnaround time allowed at Crewe in those days which is something which wouldn’t be a bad idea now. The often talked about Skegness to Manchester Airport service only lasted for a short time and that did have delays.

 

[edwin_m]

Of more concern for me in the document is the assertion that they will enhance the Joint Line service with enhanced connections into LDHS at Doncaster, where they make mention of using the bi directional line between Black Carr Junction and Doncaster station. That hints that they are wanting to use platform 2 at Doncaster for the services. This is all well and good except that Class 170 units are barred from Platform 2 in the Sectional Appendix, and EMR predominantly use class 170 units on the Joint Line services.

Is the reason for this that there is some genuine incompatibility with 170s? This is unlikely, as they were designed to be a similar loading gauge to 158s and diesels don't generally have signalling compatibility issues. So it may just be the case that nobody has bothered to apply for clearance.

 

[ajp999]

I hope that before doing anything else with the Crewe to Newark services they return the last missing diagram that leads to random gaps in the otherwise hourly service.

It's on the list for next year, apparently, of course listed as an "improvement".

Assuming funding becomes available in July, what is stopping these services being restored a lot earlier as I didn't think there were issues with either traincrew or units and it was a pure financial decision not to reinstate them?

 

[LowLevel]

Assuming funding becomes available in July, what is stopping these services being restored a lot earlier as I didn't think there were issues with either traincrew or units and it was a pure financial decision not to reinstate them?

I'm fairly sure it is financial still.

However for context the changes to services have everything to do with Lincoln and nothing to do with Crewe - Newark in terms of what is driving them, though of course Crewe - Lincoln provided it runs to time will be an excellent service for connectivity.

Having picked myself up off the floor about DfT actually requiring an increased "Regional Railways" service due to demand levels, what has happened was completely unexpected to the railway and it's authorities.

Basically Lincoln University has significantly expanded several courses for I think business and medicine on a long term basis and this has unexpectedly resulted in a large number of extra commuters on the route due to the demographics involved - with the result that trains that a couple of years ago would run with 40 people or so on are now full and standing with well over 100 and pushing 200 or more on some services - and that's all day too, not just at peak times.

They're also coming a long way - there are plenty of daily or nearly daily commuters from places like Birmingham and Leicester (large Asian demographic on medicine courses) and they're buying expensive Anytime tickets and generating a reasonable lump of revenue all things considered.

Things have been shuffled about to get more 3 car trains on the route but anything more than that is constrained by platform lengths at places like Newark Castle where despite the up platform having a new turnback signal put in when resignalled with enough room for 3 cars the platform was only left at 2 coaches long, which means multied up class 170s do not work very well.

Consequently I'm quite impressed that the "big" option of running a lot of extra trains appears to be going forward.

It also helps with crewing the awful Barton line service by extended the Grimsby trains to Cleethorpes to make crew changes easier - awful in terms of operating efficiency, it's an absolute money pit in terms of resources vs passenger usage.

 

[dodecahedron67]

I'm fairly sure it is financial still.

However for context the changes to services have everything to do with Lincoln and nothing to do with Crewe - Newark in terms of what is driving them, though of course Crewe - Lincoln provided it runs to time will be an excellent service for connectivity.

Having picked myself up off the floor about DfT actually requiring an increased "Regional Railways" service due to demand levels, what has happened was completely unexpected to the railway and it's authorities.

Basically Lincoln University has significantly expanded several courses for I think business and medicine on a long term basis and this has unexpectedly resulted in a large number of extra commuters on the route due to the demographics involved - with the result that trains that a couple of years ago would run with 40 people or so on are now full and standing with well over 100 and pushing 200 or more on some services - and that's all day too, not just at peak times.

They're also coming a long way - there are plenty of daily or nearly daily commuters from places like Birmingham and Leicester (large Asian demographic on medicine courses) and they're buying expensive Anytime tickets and generating a reasonable lump of revenue all things considered.

Just anecdotally, I know of a friend who commutes Cambridge - Lincoln via P’boro 5d a week and has done for the past 3y for uni and he says the trains are always rammed there as well

 

[takethegame]

Does this propose improvements between Lincoln and Peterborough via Sleaford and Spalding? A regular clock-face timetable and no missing trains would be a start!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

A more cynical mind would suggest that this is an attempt by EMR to put barriers in place for future/expanded open access operations on the East Coast.

 

[Class 170101]

Ah, so no improvements or addressing issues on the Lincoln - Grimsby - Cleethorpes services.

 Extension of Nottingham services from Grimsby Town to Cleethorpes.

From Page 5 of 12 from the link in #Post1 by @43074 above

 

[Failed Unit]

It looks like a lot of this is actually implementation of the franchise commitments. Lincoln - Crewe wasn’t, but at the time>

Grimsby - Leicester,
Doncaster - Peterborough (Clockface) were all part of the franchise.

2 paths were specified at Newark, which must be crossing (so the Lincoln service would cross)

The Newark - Crewe was never supposed to have gaps.

Be great if it did connect with the LNER - but it will of course add more passengers onto the trains between Lincoln and Grimsby. (Where if it doesn’t go hourly you will have more cases of passengers getting left behind). Currently you are looking at a 90 minute wait towards Grimsby and 117 minute wait from Grimsby - London.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Are there any plans to make the Grimsby to Leicester service hourly as planned

 

[Failed Unit]

Are there any plans to make the Grimsby to Leicester service hourly as planned

I didn’t see it in the documen. But why woulcn’t they (although the need 1 more staffed unit) But that was always planned so hopefully they still have the resources. Cleethorpe must mean a longer well time.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I didn’t see it in the documen. But why woulcn’t they (although the need 1 more staffed unit) But that was always planned so hopefully they still have the resources. Cleethorpe must mean a longer well time.

Is there enough capacity line is single track with a short passing loop (cannot be used TPE which are 6 carriages). Ther is 1 TPE tph and 1 train every two hours on the Barton line.

 

[Banham7]

I would thoroughly support this application with the extension of Crewe services. Having used Lincoln/Grimsby-Leicester services often, they almost always have a high load factor, often with quite a few people standing from Newark. This doesn’t exactly help with it being diagrammed as a 2-car 170 however, so it would be more welcome to have a doubled 158 for example. The incentive with cheaper fares on the Lincoln-Crewe services would also be very welcome, a lot of people would definitely switch to a service which would be diagrammed to be 9 minutes slower, but then does that shift the overcrowding issue to that specific service? Time will tell If it goes ahead.

Slightly concerned about the loss of Lincoln-Newark Northgate services, although the load factor is never as high. The reason for my concern is that it served intermediate stations Hykeham, Swinderby & Collingham, although Swinderby & Collingham never really gains passengers for the Newark Northgate services, it is mostly Hykeham. I can see their proposal is trying to turn Lincoln into more of a “hub”, and Hykeham already has a decent bus service (reliability questionable) to connect with services. This ultimately would lead to LNER being the sole operator of Lincoln-Newark Northgate, which arguably they already have a monopoly on with advance fares seen being as low as £1.50, compared to EMR only offering flexible tickets. If LNER goes ahead with an improved Lincoln-London service come May 2025, then I can see the whole proposal by EMR working quite well.

 

[Failed Unit]

The extension to Crewe would move people away from the Leicester irrespective of the Longer journey time. Passengers to Derby will possibly have a faster journey. Even if it is all shacks it may still be a nicer ride because it is direct. Lincoln - Derby is something stakeholders have wanted for a while. Back in the CT days it existed but I don’t think either of the 2 trains per hour were as well used as they are today. (Ultimately it was flat crossing conflict that cause CT to reduce to 1 TPh. Not sure if the Derby train will take some of the Lincoln - Birmingham traffic, suspect that depends on the end to end journey time.

 

[Mugby]

Services between Nottingham, Newark and Lincoln certainly do suffer from frequent overcrowding but, as has been mentioned up thread, capacity needs to be increased. the usual 2-car 170s are simply not sufficient. It beggars belief that 3-car units were the norm 40 years ago and in recent years capacity has been reduced whilst demand has increased significantly.

 

[Andy Pacer]

It also helps with crewing the awful Barton line service by extended the Grimsby trains to Cleethorpes to make crew changes easier - awful in terms of operating efficiency, it's an absolute money pit in terms of resources vs passenger usage.

Interesting point on Humber, I noticed recently that some jobs on that line change crew at Habrough which must be inefficient with then waiting to travel pass to/from Lincoln, and then the possibility of unreliability if that service is delayed.

 

[Failed Unit]

Services between Nottingham, Newark and Lincoln certainly do suffer from frequent overcrowding but, as has been mentioned up thread, capacity needs to be increased. the usual 2-car 170s are simply not sufficient. It beggars belief that 3-car units were the norm 40 years ago and in recent years capacity has been reduced whilst demand has increased significantly.

We did have a winter timetable when most of the services we allocated 3 car. In the summer the 3 cars went to Skegness which was understandable. But the winter 23/24 timetable they stayed on the Skegness route which was a surprise as I expected the Lincoln route to have more demand, they also had more 3 car sets this year but the additional trains seemed to be on the Norwich - Liverpool route (which again is always overcrowded). I hope they do get the 158s reformed into 3 cars soon.It does seem like a lot of the EMR regional routes need 3 cards most of the day.

 

[Andy Pacer]

We did have a winter timetable when most of the services we allocated 3 car. In the summer the 3 cars went to Skegness which was understandable. But the winter 23/24 timetable they stayed on the Skegness route which was a surprise as I expected the Lincoln route to have more demand, they also had more 3 car sets this year but the additional trains seemed to be on the Norwich - Liverpool route (which again is always overcrowded). I hope they do get the 158s reformed into 3 cars soon.It does seem like a lot of the EMR regional routes need 3 cards most of the day.

Is the 3 car conversion of 158s a serious plan then?

 

[Failed Unit]

Not sure how serious it was, and what is preventing them from doing it now. Even if it was just some of the sets so the 3-cars do the Norwich to Liverpool and the 2 cars are added at Nottingham (3 if really busy). Much better solution then having 2x 170. But it has gone very quiet in recent months and I don’t know if it would cost a lot of money to do. However I suspect this proposal will prevent the need to have 3 cars on the Lincoln as the load will be distributed. The stopping pattern will be interesting as I think hourly to Hykeham, Swinderby and Collingham is enough and having a service that is Newark Castle only will be welcome.

Not sure how much the Newark Northgate service will be missed. If Lincoln - Peterborough is hourly and Lincoln - Doncaster is hourly then most of the EMR demand goes. People prefer Newark Castle as the car park isn’t as expensive.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Not sure how much the Newark Northgate service will be missed. If Lincoln - Peterborough is hourly and Lincoln - Doncaster is hourly then most of the EMR demand goes. People prefer Newark Castle as the car park isn’t as expensive.

Certainly seems very lightly used when I've travelled on it.
The morning one (pre Covid) from Newark at around 0730 used to seem fairly well used, although in those days it was only a class 153.