EMR Class 170 updates

[dk1]

Indeed, but it’s strange that some people say EMR hasn’t got enough 170s to allow any to be taken out of service for refurb, and yet some have been parked up for weeks if not months. Also strange how other TOCs manage to send units away for refurb (eg: Northern to Crewe, Wolverton) and yet EMR can’t do the same even if Etches Park and Eastcroft are full. Let’s face it, the reality is there’s no ambition or drive within EMR to improve things or offer passengers reasonable standard of accommodation, let alone make a start on meeting the franchise commitments as they relate to incoming units and upgrades to facilities. IMO Abellio has been a disaster for the East Midlands rail franchise - all [marketing] form and little or no real substance. Abellio will of course trumpet the [eventual] arrival of the 810s as a major achievement and an improvement for passengers, while those of us who have the misfortune to use the Regional fleet including the 170s will undoubtedly still be sitting in filthy seats that are part of knackered interiors.

It’s no longer Abellio and any promises made during the franchise bid are no longer relevant. Any improvements will come in due course.

 

[Skymonster]

It’s no longer Abellio and any promises made during the franchise bid are no longer relevant. Any improvements will come in due course.

OK Transport UK Group then - who cares about the name, its the same disinterested management in the context of how it deals with things that matter to customers such as interior cleanliness and upkeep of vehicle fixtures and fittings. And don’t make me laugh about improvements coming ”in due course” - they have had four years to start on Regional vehicle refurb and have so far managed nothing except a bit of paint or vinyl, neither of which make any measurable difference to the regular traveller”s day-to-day experience. But to a significant extent they have a captive market and I’m sure the attitude towards customers and the state of the Regional fleet emanating from EMR Towers is “put up and shut up”. At this rate I have very little confidence much will have been achieved before the franchise comes up again in six years time.

 

[Clarence Yard]

It’s not a franchise. The DfT will decide what they spend their money on and when and, if other TOCs are anything to go by, they will decide on what gets done on the units.

The owning group is only a management agent for the DfT. They and the TOC management do not make the key decisions, as they would have done if it was a franchise.

 

[fgwrich]

OK Transport UK Group then - who cares about the name, its the same disinterested management in the context of how it deals with things that matter to customers such as interior cleanliness and upkeep of vehicle fixtures and fittings. And don’t make me laugh about improvements coming ”in due course” - they have had four years to start on Regional vehicle refurb and have so far managed nothing except a bit of paint or vinyl, neither of which make any measurable difference to the regular traveller”s day-to-day experience. But to a significant extent they have a captive market and I’m sure the attitude towards customers and the state of the Regional fleet emanating from EMR Towers is “put up and shut up”. At this rate I have very little confidence much will have been achieved before the franchise comes up again in six years time.

It’s not a franchise. The DfT will decide what they spend their money on and when and, if other TOCs are anything to go by, they will decide on what gets done on the units.

The owning group is only a management agent for the DfT. They and the TOC management do not make the key decisions, as they would have done if it was a franchise.

And this is the crux of the matter. With the DfT controlling every penny now, as CY says, TOCs have very little control anymore. And one reason why I dislike the idea of giving the DfT more power. People may lament the bad days of privatisation, but at least the TOCs had more freedom to choose to refurbish and look after their fleets a little more than now.

 

[43102EMR]

People may lament the bad days of privatisation, but at least the TOCs had more freedom to choose to refurbish and look after their fleets a little more than now.

Even the quality of that noticeably dropped when Abellio took over from Stagecoach - can’t remember the last time I saw an EMR interior where it wasn’t tattered inside

 

[QSK19]

One thing I’ve learned about EMR is never believe that anything will happen - set the expectation at no refurbishment at all.

It’s reassuring when @LowLevel updates us on the Regional fleet refurbishment progress; however it just seems that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. As others have said, the DfT control everything and they can withdraw any promises/plans in the blink of an eye.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It’s not a franchise. The DfT will decide what they spend their money on and when and, if other TOCs are anything to go by, they will decide on what gets done on the units.

The owning group is only a management agent for the DfT. They and the TOC management do not make the key decisions, as they would have done if it was a franchise.

My bold.

Not making an issue but just wondering...

Who decided and authorised the expenditure on the 'Miles' campaign? Every E.M.R. station I've used has one, so it's not a trivial cost. Ironic that the only time you see clean moquette travelling by train from Wellingboro' is on the 'Miles' mannequin in the station forecourt.

Just my own personal opinion of course, but I don't find it pleasant to look at, quite the reverse.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

My bold.

Not making an issue but just wondering...

Who decided and authorised the expenditure on the 'Miles' campaign? Every E.M.R. station I've used has one, so it's not a trivial cost. Ironic that the only time you see clean moquette travelling by train from Wellingboro' is on the 'Miles' mannequin in the station forecourt.

Just my own personal opinion of course, but I don't find it pleasant to look at, quite the reverse.

Does Miles come in a free-standing punch bag version? I'm thinking of the sort with a heavy base and pivoted from that, rather than one suspended from above. But both would be quite satisfactory I imagine.

 

[dk1]

A letter in Modern Railways October issue from a user on the Crewe-Newark route praises the EMR 170 fleet. He goes on to say “the quiet purring and comfortable seats of the Turbostars has turned the journey into a delightful and civilised experience. These trains make putting the customer first into a reality rather than an ideological slogan”.

Although absolutely spoilt rotten at one of Transport UKs other TOCs with the new Stadler fleet on our regional services, I do miss the class 170s that we had fresh from the production lines in 1999 & 2002.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A letter in Modern Railways October issue from a user on the Crewe-Newark route praises the EMR 170 fleet. He goes on to say “the quiet purring and comfortable seats of the Turbostars has turned the journey into a delightful and civilised experience. These trains make putting the customer first into a reality rather than an ideological slogan”.

Absolutely snortworthy.
Most likely got a /2 as these are probably the nicest currently but even those are still grim.

 

[dk1]

Absolutely snortworthy.
Most likely got a /2 as these are probably the nicest currently but even those are still grim.

Had to Google snortworthy.

 

[QSK19]

A letter in Modern Railways October issue from a user on the Crewe-Newark route praises the EMR 170 fleet. He goes on to say “the quiet purring and comfortable seats of the Turbostars has turned the journey into a delightful and civilised experience. These trains make putting the customer first into a reality rather than an ideological slogan”.

I remember reading that one - I think that EMR needs to hire him as their spin doctor/brand ambassador!

IMO, the 170s are definitely an upgrade over a 156 (especially those horrible /9s from GA); but nevertheless, they’re not in the best of shape. God knows what the guy would make of the them if they get refurbished

 

[dk1]

I remember reading that one - I think that EMR needs to hire him as their spin doctor/brand ambassador!

IMO, the 170s are definitely an upgrade over a 156 (especially those horrible /9s from GA); but nevertheless, they’re not in the best of shape. God knows what the guy would make of the them if they get refurbished

My recent trips on EMR 170s between Grantham & Skeggy have been more than acceptable, but yes I’m sure he won’t know what to do with himself if & when that happens haha.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And this is the crux of the matter. With the DfT controlling every penny now, as CY says, TOCs have very little control anymore. And one reason why I dislike the idea of giving the DfT more power. People may lament the bad days of privatisation, but at least the TOCs had more freedom to choose to refurbish and look after their fleets a little more than now.

Spot on scrapping franchising was a bad move by DafT no incentive for revenue protection, no incentive to drive up revenue through better service provision, clean interiors, staff training. What we have a zombie arrangement with no vision from either the Tories or Labour about putting things right.

 

[LowLevel]

Absolutely snortworthy.
Most likely got a /2 as these are probably the nicest currently but even those are still grim.

I should point out that I think 2023 is the first year since they were introduced that I haven't been on a class 153.

If you were a Derby - Crewe line regular acclimatised to the racket from a dogbox engine, especially with the windows open, the random leaks through the panels and windows, the odd smell and the perpetual overcrowding with students, commuters and sports fans, you'd find the most battered 170 to be an upgrade.

They do still attract positive comments from people used to Sprinters and they're still a huge upgrade. They just badly need an overhaul.

 

[lkpridgeon]

I should point out that I think 2023 is the first year since they were introduced that I haven't been on a class 153.

If you were a Derby - Crewe line regular acclimatised to the racket from a dogbox engine, especially with the windows open, the random leaks through the panels and windows, the odd smell and the perpetual overcrowding with students, commuters and sports fans, you'd find the most battered 170 to be an upgrade.

They do still attract positive comments from people used to Sprinters and they're still a huge upgrade. They just badly need an overhaul.

Very much my thoughts too. Whilst a bit tatty what we have now on the EMR regional is by far an improvement on what came before. I've been on many a crush loaded train between Lincoln and Newark as a commuter. The 170's feel like luxury!

At least they're generally quite quiet, longer, don't leak (as much) and have working heating/aircon! When the refurb eventually does happen it'll be another step up.

 

[dk1]

Careful guys with your EMR 170 comments. You’ll reap the backlash from any of this almost positivity lol.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I should point out that I think 2023 is the first year since they were introduced that I haven't been on a class 153.

If you were a Derby - Crewe line regular acclimatised to the racket from a dogbox engine, especially with the windows open, the random leaks through the panels and windows, the odd smell and the perpetual overcrowding with students, commuters and sports fans, you'd find the most battered 170 to be an upgrade.

They do still attract positive comments from people used to Sprinters and they're still a huge upgrade. They just badly need an overhaul.

I agree with yourself and @lkpridgeon, except to say that I remember when we had then NEW 170's on Crewe to Derby/Nottingham, they were nicer then. Obviously an MGR hopper would probably be better than the 153's in their final days. Then again I also remember the 153's when they were new (as 155's) in the West Midlands.

 

[STINT47]

A letter in Modern Railways October issue from a user on the Crewe-Newark route praises the EMR 170 fleet. He goes on to say “the quiet purring and comfortable seats of the Turbostars has turned the journey into a delightful and civilised experience. These trains make putting the customer first into a reality rather than an ideological slogan”.

The person who wrote this wasn't called Milles by any chance?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The person who wrote this wasn't called Milles by any chance?

It was by a Michael Bourne of Church Stretton, a regular traveller from South Shropshire to Newark

 

[QSK19]

It was by a Michael Bourne of Church Stretton, a regular traveller from South Shropshire to Newark

Sounds like a bit of a XC sort of route to me. No doubt they’d lay on a 170/1 or 170/6

 

[Techniquest]

Anyone else think of someone regularly travelling from Church Stretton (UK) to Newark (New Jersey, USA)?

 

[RailWonderer]

It’s not a franchise. The DfT will decide what they spend their money on and when and, if other TOCs are anything to go by, they will decide on what gets done on the units.

The owning group is only a management agent for the DfT. They and the TOC management do not make the key decisions, as they would have done if it was a franchise.

I'd bet serious money that even when the economy recovers, railway budgets won't be hiked and the railways stay in a state of decay. All these pro BR forumers make me laugh with their fantasies when the reality is privitisation created entities that were held accountable and when they weren't performing up to scratch they were replaced. Government can do what it wants and make excuses and everybody else has to suck it up.

IMO, the 170s are definitely an upgrade over a 156 (especially those horrible /9s from GA); but nevertheless, they’re not in the best of shape. God knows what the guy would make of the them if they get refurbished

The /9s are ex-Southern 171s, the GA 170 2xxs are the best of the fleet, having been refurbished in 2016 with new carpets and seat covers and grey handlebars from the previous orange.
I do though appreciate any 170, they have revolutionised rail travel in the East Midlands (or rather, returned it to its CT era state) after a dire period of stretched, dirty, unreliable uncomfrotable 153s and 156s.

 

[QSK19]

The /9s are ex-Southern 171s.

I meant the 156/9s when I referred to the horrible /9s from GA (and in any case, the ex-Southern units have been renumbered back to /4 now that they have BSI couplers on); but yep, I share the sentiment that the Regional stock situation is looking in far better shape than the 153/156 era. With an internal refurbishment, the 170s will be a solid product for the next 15 years or so.

 

[Failed Unit]

Very much my thoughts too. Whilst a bit tatty what we have now on the EMR regional is by far an improvement on what came before. I've been on many a crush loaded train between Lincoln and Newark as a commuter. The 170's feel like luxury!

At least they're generally quite quiet, longer, don't leak (as much) and have working heating/aircon! When the refurb eventually does happen it'll be another step up.

I think that sums it up nicely, we are so used to the 153s, getting o physically was a challenge.

We are often at weekends still seeing passengers left behind on the 2 car 170s and full and standing on the 3 cars. (On 153 operated routes until recently). So to the passenger, they are tatty, but at least they can consistently make the journey. I know the single operated 153 ceased a while ago, but there wasn’t really much of a gap between 153s ending and 170s starting to say the 156s coped with the loadings as well.

 

[45076]

I think that sums it up nicely, we are so used to the 153s, getting o physically was a challenge.

We are often at weekends still seeing passengers left behind on the 2 car 170s and full and standing on the 3 cars. (On 153 operated routes until recently). So to the passenger, they are tatty, but at least they can consistently make the journey. I know the single operated 153 ceased a while ago, but there wasn’t really much of a gap between 153s ending and 170s starting to say the 156s coped with the loadings as well.

We took the grandkids to Matlock and the two car 170 was wedged when it arrived from Nottingham. in my opinion EMR is either seriously underfunded, badly managed or a heady mixture of both.

 

[dk1]

We took the grandkids to Matlock and the two car 170 was wedged when it arrived from Nottingham. in my opinion EMR is either seriously underfunded, badly managed or a heady mixture of both.

To be fair it’s been like that for the last 30+ years. Class 153s were operating on peak weekend Skegness services under BR leaving passengers stranded, the North West-East Anglia route has suffered severe crowding since its inception in 1988 as an hourly Sprinter operated service and then the Central Trains split in 2007 was renowned for insufficient fleet allocated to EMT. Add to that the crewing issues especially on Sundays which would see entire regional routes devoid of a service at all. I would say that EMR have a slightly better deal now than they have had in decades.

 

[43102EMR]

To be fair it’s been like that for the last 30+ years. Class 153s were operating on peak weekend Skegness services under BR leaving passengers stranded, the North West-East Anglia route has suffered severe crowding since its inception in 1988 as an hourly Sprinter operated service and then the Central Trains split in 2007 was renowned for insufficient fleet allocated to EMT. Add to that the crewing issues especially on Sundays which would see entire regional routes devoid of a service at all. I would say that EMR have a slightly better deal now than they have had in decades.

Slightly better, but still bad especially compared to other TOCs

 

[Liam L]

170273 going to Bristol today... any ideas why?

 

[Failed Unit]

We took the grandkids to Matlock and the two car 170 was wedged when it arrived from Nottingham. in my opinion EMR is either seriously underfunded, badly managed or a heady mixture of both.

Certainly a mixture of both, I wonder if they had implemented the full timetable which was supposed to be hourly on most routes if things would be better, or if the increased frequency would have lead to more passengers and still the same overcrowding. Routes link Grimsby - Lincoln on an hourly frequency would probably be counter productive as more people would use them.