EMR Class 170 updates

[LowLevel]

Good to see that the 17:45 from Piccadilly will be booked 6-car and no fewer than 3-car. However, where will the 08:51 Liverpool to Nottingham or Norwich be??

The 0851 Liverpool - Notts returns in December and as far as I know is booked 4 car 158.

 

[QSK19]

Good operational condition, usually - eg. not out of miles to an exam, not physically damaged, everything working as it should, in tact, etc.

Indeed - they won’t do or spend anything above the requirements of the contract with the new TOC. And in any case, the ROSCO is guaranteed an income for many years to come, so where is the incentive to spend extra money on making them nice?

As others have said, the 222s will need to be pitched to the DfT / other TOCs for future business; so the ROSCO wants them to look presentable (whether that’s through their own investment or forcing the incumbent TOC to bring them back up to standard before the lease ends).

 

[dk1]

Part of me thinks this is more down to the leasing company wanting them to be good condition to attract another leaser?

If there are any faults or repairs they must be done before lease end. We had a DVT that required significant collision damage. Even though not needed and not having a future it had to be fully repaired before hand back.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The 0851 Liverpool - Notts returns in December and as far as I know is booked 4 car 158.

Fantastic. That's the first train one can use on a South Pennine Ranger on weekdays (though I have heard that people CAN presently get on the 09:25 TPE because "it's not your fault EMR can't be bothered to reinstate their 09:54 service"). Don't think the conductors of the TPE will be as willing come December unless the EMR is genuinely cancelled.

 

[The_Train]

Why then did EMR receive so many 170’s in such an appalling interior condition? Some of them are in a far worse condition than the Meridians.

I find it difficult to believe that any units are in worse condition than the Meridians. It would be safer to stand in the middle of a science lab that tests the worlds diseases without protective equipment than it is to step foot on a Meridian

Good operational condition, usually - eg. not out of miles to an exam, not physically damaged, everything working as it should, in tact, etc.

Surely they have to consider the inside as well? Not much use sending a unit back that is operational from a mechanical point of view but can't carry passengers because the seats have disintegrated

 

[dk1]

Surely they have to consider the inside as well? Not much use sending a unit back that is operational from a mechanical point of view but can't carry passengers because the seats have disintegrated

Interior condition and refurbishment come under agreements between TOC and ROSCO under normal circumstances. As long as the seats are physically there it would make no difference as to their appearance.

 

[Killingworth]

I find it difficult to believe that any units are in worse condition than the Meridians. It would be safer to stand in the middle of a science lab that tests the worlds diseases without protective equipment than it is to step foot on a Meridian


Surely they have to consider the inside as well? Not much use sending a unit back that is operational from a mechanical point of view but can't carry passengers because the seats have disintegrated

And if a new operator is not yet agreed a ROSCO won't easily 'sell' tatty stock to a new user if something else may be available, like soldiering on with what they've got. If covering 5-10 years for new builds to become available they need to look better than the stock to be ultimately replaced.

 

[RailWonderer]

Fair enough. Does go to show that use of 170s even though better for passengers is going to take a knock to catering revenue in the same way it has done using 755s between Norwich & London. They do at least some unit swapping en-route now that risk assessment has been done.

I had a 755 swap on a Norwich IC and as expected the trolley and guard was in the rear unit the entirety of my Ipswich - Chelmsford journey. Not surprised about the revenue hit. From experience I know the trolley does very good business on this route as well.

 

[dk1]

I had a 755 swap on a Norwich IC and as expected the trolley and guard was in the rear unit the entirety of my Ipswich - Chelmsford journey. Not surprised about the revenue hit. From experience I know the trolley does very good business on this route as well.

Many guards move between units at at least Ipswich & Colchester although yesterday mine did it at EVERY station calling me each time to advise he was back onboard as per rules.

 

[Mowgli]

Many guards move between units at at least Ipswich & Colchester although yesterday mine did it at EVERY station calling me each time to advise he was back onboard as per rules.

I know they are following rules but it is so annoying (to me anyway). I hate that cab to cab - I just feel like saying 'I'm not bloody going to leave you behind just move!'

 

[dk1]

I know they are following rules but it is so annoying (to me anyway). I hate that cab to cab - I just feel like saying 'I'm not bloody going to leave you behind just move!'

The two most irritating things about the 745/755 fleet is the cab-cab & train length reached ‘bleep bleep’. They do my head in.

 

[Pippy1505]

170206 arriving from TFW on 19/11 next one 6th December and final one 21st jan

Remaining 170 ex southern staying for another year with southern with a possibility it will not move to EMR

 

[45076]

Remaining 170 ex southern staying for another year with southern with a possibility it will not move to EMR

I wonder if it will get a new interior if its stay's with Southern...

 

[animationmilo]

170206 arriving from TFW on 19/11 next one 6th December and final one 21st jan

Remaining 170 ex southern staying for another year with southern with a possibility it will not move to EMR

I thought it was delayed to next year seems not. Shame.

 

[QSK19]

I wonder if it will get a new interior if its stay's with Southern...

Sod’s Law says yes!

 

[LowLevel]

I thought it was delayed to next year seems not. Shame.

These things are always a moveable feast - there's an increased requirement for 3 car sets at EMR with an additional 3 units being diagrammed to Liverpool - Norwich from December which may have altered things again.

 

[Bevan Price]

Fantastic. That's the first train one can use on a South Pennine Ranger on weekdays (though I have heard that people CAN presently get on the 09:25 TPE because "it's not your fault EMR can't be bothered to reinstate their 09:54 service"). Don't think the conductors of the TPE will be as willing come December unless the EMR is genuinely cancelled.

TPE conductors have no choice. South Pennine Rangers are valid after 09:00 on Monday to Friday.

South Pennines Day Ranger | National Rail

Special offer: South Pennines Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[STINT47]

TPE conductors have no choice. South Pennine Rangers are valid after 09:00 on Monday to Friday.

South Pennines Day Ranger | National Rail

Special offer: South Pennines Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

National Rail are wrong on this. The ticket has restriction B3 is not valid on trains due to separate before 09:00 so it can be used on a train timed at 09:00.

It may sound pedantic but my local station has a train due to depart at 09:00 and I have had problems using tickets with the B3 restriction. Sadly the industry miswords things then tries to charge people more than necessary.

 

[Liverpool 507]

With 6 car 170 diagrams being announced above on selected Liverpool - Nottingham services, are there going to be any 4 car booked 170 services on this route to supplement the 158s?

 

[170UTD]

170206 arriving from TFW on 19/11

Path in place for it

Realtime Trains | 5M57 1041 Cardiff Canton Sidings to Etches Park Sdgs | 19/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 5M57 1041 departure from Cardiff Canton Sidings to Etches Park Sdgs on 19/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Pippy1505]

With 6 car 170 diagrams being announced above on selected Liverpool - Nottingham services, are there going to be any 4 car booked 170 services on this route to supplement the 158s?

Trial operation 6 cars 1R52 0635 Nottingham-Liverpool and 1L09 0951 Liverpool-Nottingham
Single 3 car will continue through to Norwich as 1L09 and return as 1R80 1548 Norwich-Liverpool (No attachment at Nottingham)

 

[Killingworth]

Trial operation 6 cars 1R52 0635 Nottingham-Liverpool and 1L09 0951 Liverpool-Nottingham
Single 3 car will continue through to Norwich as 1L09 and return as 1R80 1548 Norwich-Liverpool (No attachment at Nottingham)

6 car on 1R52? That's currently running as 2 car between Sheffield and Manchester and certainly needs to be 4 as has been announced to be happening from December. 6 would give users a pleasant surprise. When's the trial?

 

[LowLevel]

6 car on 1R52? That's currently running as 2 car between Sheffield and Manchester and certainly needs to be 4 as has been announced to be happening from December. 6 would give users a pleasant surprise. When's the trial?

December onwards. 1R50 goes to 4 car 158, 1R52 6 car 170.

I was having a conversation about the irony of the shortest train becoming the longest with some of the regular vestibule occupants from Chinley the other morning as I squashed the world in at Hazel Grove.

 

[Mariner16]

170423 (ex 923) now fully in EMR colours from the old Green/White combination. Just gone past it at Etches. Not seen 422 for a while at Nottingham so assuming this is happening to that one aswell.

 

[Jamesrob637]

December onwards. 1R50 goes to 4 car 158, 1R52 6 car 170.

I was having a conversation about the irony of the shortest train becoming the longest with some of the regular vestibule occupants from Chinley the other morning as I squashed the world in at Hazel Grove.

HG residents who use that train will love the lengthening.

 

[sd0733]

170423 (ex 923) now fully in EMR colours from the old Green/White combination. Just gone past it at Etches. Not seen 422 for a while at Nottingham so assuming this is happening to that one aswell.

Looks like 422 went up to Crewe the other day on: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:14278/2023-11-13/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Rick1984]

It will be interesting to see if a 3 car is up to the task from Norwich. 2 car 158 are always packed

 

[45076]

170206 has arrived at Derby.

 

[blueberry11]

The EMR website is showing an update about the class 170s from Norwich for the December 2023 timetable change. However, as someone said earlier, they started to make an appearance on that route

Timetable change will also include a trial of Class 170 trains on the Liverpool to Norwich route

Timetables | EMR

Find times for EMR trains, for wherever you need to travel on our network.

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Where can I find news about the 6-car workings?