EMR Class 170's

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Murray J

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ex scotrail 170417 and 170416 are both en route to crofton depot as 5E66, the first 170s to be transferred to EMR.
170416 may turn out to be 170418 however as it's not confirmed whether it's 416 or 418.
 

WesternLancer

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will these be getting a refurb? Traveled on my 1st Northern ex scotrail set the other day - like other refurbed NT stock the refurb was a bit on the cheap side - esp poor to have refurbed the ex 1st class area tables with a very crudely applied 'panel' over the place where the table lamp once was - said panel very sharp edged too.
 

D365

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will these be getting a refurb? Traveled on my 1st Northern ex scotrail set the other day - like other refurbed NT stock the refurb was a bit on the cheap side - esp poor to have refurbed the ex 1st class area tables with a very crudely applied 'panel' over the place where the table lamp once was - said panel very sharp edged too.
You think so? I'm very happy with the Northern 170s. They're an upgrade even compared to the ex-TPE 170s.
 
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..and then the southern 171s from next summer...maybe
Modern Railways states two class 170s will transfer from ScotRail this month, with balance following in June; they are to be repainted first, then to Etches Park for driver training and preparation for service entry. It also says that they will be introduced initially on the Robin Hood Line.

Regarding the transfer of 171s, the magazine claims they will only be moved once suitable replacements have been identified. It states that although the fitting of batteries to Electrostars has been considered, "it is understood the current technology is limited to three-car operation, which is not useful from an operational prospective"

It then goes on to say that "an extension of third rail is now looking more likely, with a short extension on Merseyrail potentially setting a precedent".

I guess this means that the 171s won't be transferring to EMR next summer.
 

WesternLancer

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Modern Railways states two class 170s will transfer from ScotRail this month, with balance following in June; they are to be repainted first, then to Etches Park for driver training and preparation for service entry. It also says that they will be introduced initially on the Robin Hood Line.

Regarding the transfer of 171s, the magazine claims they will only be moved once suitable replacements have been identified. It states that although the fitting of batteries to Electrostars has been considered, "it is understood the current technology is limited to three-car operation, which is not useful from an operational prospective"

It then goes on to say that "an extension of third rail is now looking more likely, with a short extension on Merseyrail potentially setting a precedent".

I guess this means that the 171s won't be transferring to EMR next summer.
are we really saying someone has looked at the 7 mile Uckfield branch (and Hastings - Ashford) and worked out that it might make more sense to 3rd rail it compared with starting a wholly new procurement process for some DMUs to operate in an island of 3rd rail....

Hard to imagine such good sense is breaking out after all these years!
 
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are we really saying someone has looked at the 7 mile Uckfield branch (and Hastings - Ashford) and worked out that it might make more sense to 3rd rail it compared with starting a wholly new procurement process for some DMUs to operate in an island of 3rd rail....

Hard to imagine such good sense is breaking out after all these years!
It certainly does!

Two questions; what's the short extension on Merseyrail referred to, and how long would it take to electrify to Uckfield and between Ashford and Ore, using 3rd-rail?

My guess is that if electrification does go ahead, it would delay transfer of the 171s to EMR.
 

Fincra5

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Modern Railways states two class 170s will transfer from ScotRail this month, with balance following in June; they are to be repainted first, then to Etches Park for driver training and preparation for service entry. It also says that they will be introduced initially on the Robin Hood Line.

Regarding the transfer of 171s, the magazine claims they will only be moved once suitable replacements have been identified. It states that although the fitting of batteries to Electrostars has been considered, "it is understood the current technology is limited to three-car operation, which is not useful from an operational prospective"

It then goes on to say that "an extension of third rail is now looking more likely, with a short extension on Merseyrail potentially setting a precedent".

I guess this means that the 171s won't be transferring to EMR next summer.
Finally some sense on the railway maybe! Plugging the 3rd Rail Gap.
 

Stephen Lee

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It certainly does!

Two questions; what's the short extension on Merseyrail referred to, and how long would it take to electrify to Uckfield and between Ashford and Ore, using 3rd-rail?

My guess is that if electrification does go ahead, it would delay transfer of the 171s to EMR.
According to Wiki
It certainly does!

Two questions; what's the short extension on Merseyrail referred to, and how long would it take to electrify to Uckfield and between Ashford and Ore, using 3rd-rail?

My guess is that if electrification does go ahead, it would delay transfer of the 171s to EMR.
According to wikipedia, 12 class 171s are due to transfer
 

Stephen Lee

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Yes but not until replacements for them have been found. Somewhere though there is a thread for that topic.
Once they are replaced I wondered if it is a good idea for XC to lengthen 170111-117(2-car 170/1s) into 3-cars using surplus centre cars from 171s
PS once the West Midlands Railway Class 170/6 move to the east side of the Midlands the XC 170/5s will be lengthen to 3-coaches while 170630-635 will downgrade to 2-coaches to EMR.
 

OTRail

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Modern Railways states two class 170s will transfer from ScotRail this month, with balance following in June; they are to be repainted first, then to Etches Park for driver training and preparation for service entry. It also says that they will be introduced initially on the Robin Hood Line.
How come they aren’t going to be running the Liverpool to Norwich route first? Makes more sense seeing as the 170s used to work that route before the 158s did and the route is in desperate need of a stock upgrade...
 

physics34

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are we really saying someone has looked at the 7 mile Uckfield branch (and Hastings - Ashford) and worked out that it might make more sense to 3rd rail it compared with starting a wholly new procurement process for some DMUs to operate in an island of 3rd rail....

Hard to imagine such good sense is breaking out after all these years!
Sorry to correct but its more than 7 miles
 

AndyW33

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How come they aren’t going to be running the Liverpool to Norwich route first? Makes more sense seeing as the 170s used to work that route before the 158s did and the route is in desperate need of a stock upgrade...
Let's see - need to train crews at both Nottingham and Norwich depots, rather than just Nottingham
No through gangways between units so half the train would have no catering west of Nottingham, same for ticket inspections.
By the time enough 170s/171s have been released to EMR, there won't be a Liverpool - Norwich service anyway because the DfT will have succeeded in splitting the route at Nottingham and the western half will have a different operator.
Choose any or all reasons...

Academic anyway, with the emergency timetable in place.
 

43055

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How come they aren’t going to be running the Liverpool to Norwich route first? Makes more sense seeing as the 170s used to work that route before the 158s did and the route is in desperate need of a stock upgrade...
I think there is a few reasons:
* I think a lot of the Robin hood trains a currently 3 coaches so a 170 can replace a 156 and 153 in one go (and the 156 could replace another 153 or two)
* The route is self contained except for extremities and the depot is at one end. (say the train broke down).
* Being shorter runs could more crew use over a period of time? This would keep knowledge up of the trains.

You might find that when the 170 enter service more 158's end up back on the Liverpools again rather than having the current mix of 15x's.
 

OTRail

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Let's see - need to train crews at both Nottingham and Norwich depots, rather than just Nottingham
No through gangways between units so half the train would have no catering west of Nottingham, same for ticket inspections.
By the time enough 170s/171s have been released to EMR, there won't be a Liverpool - Norwich service anyway because the DfT will have succeeded in splitting the route at Nottingham and the western half will have a different operator.
Choose any or all reasons...

Academic anyway, with the emergency timetable in place.
Eventually they will have to train crew at Norwich as the plan (should it go ahead) is to operate a Derby - Norwich service, so the 170s will need to be familiarised by them regardless of the Liverpool portion being lost.

Let’s not forget as well the plans aren’t set in stone for Liverpool to Nottingham - likelihood is TPE will operate the services but there’s also a good chance the service will remain as is given the inability of both TPE and Northern to operate the services they have at present.

Not sure if this is right or not but aren’t EMR scrapping catering from regional services? Might be wrong though.
 

OTRail

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I think there is a few reasons:
* I think a lot of the Robin hood trains a currently 3 coaches so a 170 can replace a 156 and 153 in one go (and the 156 could replace another 153 or two)
* The route is self contained except for extremities and the depot is at one end. (say the train broke down).
* Being shorter runs could more crew use over a period of time? This would keep knowledge up of the trains.

You might find that when the 170 enter service more 158's end up back on the Liverpools again rather than having the current mix of 15x's.
Yes that’s true - I do remember reading on another thread that 170s aren’t used to the stop-start nature of routes such as the Robin Hood line though, so not sure if they’ll be any problems there.

That would make sense - I also wouldn’t be surprised if there eventually ends up being 170/158 hybrids like back in the Central Trains days...
 

Domh245

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Yes that’s true - I do remember reading on another thread that 170s aren’t used to the stop-start nature of routes such as the Robin Hood line though, so not sure if they’ll be any problems there.
Not that they aren't used to it so much as they aren't suited to it!
 

43096

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I think there is a few reasons:
* I think a lot of the Robin hood trains a currently 3 coaches so a 170 can replace a 156 and 153 in one go (and the 156 could replace another 153 or two)
* The route is self contained except for extremities and the depot is at one end. (say the train broke down).
* Being shorter runs could more crew use over a period of time? This would keep knowledge up of the trains.

You might find that when the 170 enter service more 158's end up back on the Liverpools again rather than having the current mix of 15x's.
The reason for Robin Hood line first is because all (or nearly all) of the traincrew links at Nottingham have Robin Hood line work. That means more crews get trained and can also maintain traction competence until more sets arrive.

A very sensible way of doing it.
 

swt_passenger

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How come they aren’t going to be running the Liverpool to Norwich route first? Makes more sense seeing as the 170s used to work that route before the 158s did and the route is in desperate need of a stock upgrade...
Probably because EMR’s fleet plans are based on someone else running the Liverpool - Norwich end of that route. If EMR end up keeping it after all, they’ll need more stock.
 

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