EMR/Northern/TPE ticket acceptance in disruption

[Fawkes Cat]

I haven't spotted a thread for this yet - mods please close/merge/relocate as appropriate if I have missed something.

Northern expands ticket sharing deal with EMR and TPE

Train operators Northern, EMR and TPE have strengthened their partnership with a new ticket acceptance agreement.

www.railwaypro.com

Northern expands ticket sharing deal with EMR and TPE
June 20, 2025

Train operators Northern, East Midlands Railway (EMR) and TransPennine Express (TPE) have strengthened their partnership with a new ticket acceptance agreement aimed at improving travel continuity across the North of England.

From Sunday, 22 June 2025, customers holding tickets for Northern, EMR or TPE services will be able to use their tickets on any of the three operators’ trains within two hours of a cancellation. The arrangement applies to both pre-planned and unplanned disruptions and allows travel on any reasonable route shown in journey planners.

This move builds on an earlier policy, introduced in December 2024, which allowed Northern customers to use EMR and TPE services on Sundays in the event of cancellations. The new agreement formalises and expands that provision, making it automatic and available throughout the week.

Under the revised policy:

• Tickets will be accepted on Northern, EMR and TPE services within two hours of a cancelled train.
• Passengers may use any reasonable alternative route displayed in journey planners.
• The policy applies across key routes including Nottingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool.
• The arrangement is designed to reduce workload for frontline and control teams while offering increased certainty and flexibility for customers.

 

[MCR247]

Good/bad timing to announce this today with all of today’s EMR disruption

 

[saismee]

Didn't TPE and Northern already have this between them?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Didn't TPE and Northern already have this between them?

Yes, and LNER.

I would expect something for Southeastern and South Western Railway soon.

It's basically adding in EMR to the existing agreement, which is unusual in that it isn't a DfT TOC - but more about comparatively poor reliability in Northern England and the pressure from mayoral regions to see a more unified railway now, not in 5 years.

Something of a shame that TfW is less involved/considered with their more independent management under Welsh Government.

 

[Hadders]

Given that DfT control things, and the level to which they like to micro-manage, I'm surprised they don't just mandate network wide acceptance in the event of a cancellation. It would reduce confusion and be a 'good news' story for the railway.

 

[Kite159]

I would expect something for Southeastern and South Western Railway soon.

Which wouldn't help considering there is pretty much no overlap between SWR & Southeastern services.

 

[A S Leib]

It feels odd not to include journeys between Peterborough, Grantham, Lincoln and Newark with LNER.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

So Northern/TPE/LNER and Northern/TPE/EMR, so a Northern or TPE customer can use any of the four in disruption, but an EMR or LNER passenger can't use each other?

 

[Iskra]

So Northern/TPE/LNER and Northern/TPE/EMR, so a Northern or TPE customer can use any of the four in disruption, but an EMR or LNER passenger can't use each other?

I don’t think EMR Intercity services genuinely have the capacity to offer a relief to LNER’s much higher capacity train service out of London. It would be pretty disastrous considering recent reports of crowding at St Pancras. That seems an appropriate omission at this time.

 

[800001]

I don’t think EMR Intercity services genuinely have the capacity to offer a relief to LNER’s much higher capacity train service out of London. It would be pretty disastrous considering recent reports of crowding at St Pancras. That seems an appropriate omission at this time.

Think they were more meaning between Peterborough to Grantham when there is disruption in Ecml?

 

[LowLevel]

Good, should be made nationwide for all non open access operators. There's been a recent regression into stupid tribalism from some control teams about declining ticket acceptance seemingly at a whim so I'm glad to see it taken out of their hands.

 

[43066]

Good, should be made nationwide for all non open access operators. There's been a recent regression into stupid tribalism from some control teams about declining ticket acceptance seemingly at a whim so I'm glad to see it taken out of their hands.

So long as there is still ability to control numbers in extremis - the EMR (IC) v LNER example above is a good one.

I suspect there always will be, but it will be by route rather than by operator, as (AIUI) was the case under BR?

 

[Iskra]

Think they were more meaning between Peterborough to Grantham when there is disruption in Ecml?

Well that’s even worse considering it’s often 2 car Sprinters on that section.

 

[800001]

Well that’s even worse considering it’s often 2 car Sprinters on that section.

If it’s EMR that’s Cancelled it will be very helpful to get LNER between PBO and Grantham.
Funnily enough can’t remember the last time a sprinter worked down there, 158s however

 

[duffield]

If it’s EMR that’s Cancelled it will be very helpful to get LNER between PBO and Grantham.
Funnily enough can’t remember the last time a sprinter worked down there, 158s however

Huh? 158s *are* sprinters. "Express Sprinters". All the class 15x units are members of the sprinter family.

 

[800001]

Huh? 158s *are* sprinters. "Express Sprinters". All the class 15x units are members of the sprinter family.

Can never recall them been sprinters, learn something new everyday

 

[Bow Fell]

Good, should be made nationwide for all non open access operators. There's been a recent regression into stupid tribalism from some control teams about declining ticket acceptance seemingly at a whim so I'm glad to see it taken out of their hands.

Yep, I don’t get that at all. It’s not like any loss in revenue is coming out the wages of the controllers is it?!

I can think of one occasion where I’ve had to decline ticket acceptance but that was an exceptional circumstance!

I know, we have a really good relationship with other TOC’s and when they phone up asking for ticket acceptance, you feel for them, they're obviously having a bad day if they're asking for it. It could be our turn the next day!

I was reading a new thread in the Disputes sub section and the communication to the frontline has to be better. The information is all there, any controller knows any ticket acceptance is paged via Tyrell and put in the daily control log, so why it fails to filter down can be a mystery.

 

[Horizon22]

I was reading a new thread in the Disputes sub section and the communication to the frontline has to be better. The information is all there, any controller knows any ticket acceptance is paged via Tyrell and put in the daily control log, so why it fails to filter down can be a mystery.

Because frontline staff don’t read the messaging they are given and then say “Control tells us nothing”…

Okay this isn’t universal but it’s often paged out, calls are made and you still get these sort of complaints…

The only time it is likely to be declined is if it would seriously overload (I.e people left behind) the other operator(s). Even if both TOCs are in disruption, you just do it mutually.

 

[WAB]

Yep, I don’t get that at all. It’s not like any loss in revenue is coming out the wages of the controllers is it?!

I can think of one occasion where I’ve had to decline ticket acceptance but that was an exceptional circumstance!

I know, we have a really good relationship with other TOC’s and when they phone up asking for ticket acceptance, you feel for them, they're obviously having a bad day if they're asking for it. It could be our turn the next day!

I was reading a new thread in the Disputes sub section and the communication to the frontline has to be better. The information is all there, any controller knows any ticket acceptance is paged via Tyrell and put in the daily control log, so why it fails to filter down can be a mystery.

The issue I have come across is when one operator is always asking the other for acceptance, which gets granted, and then, when it is the other way around, they are extremely reluctant to reciprocate which leads to a feedback loop.

The attitude I have always taken is that the whole acceptance process should only be about avoiding extreme overcrowding.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Sunday at 02:06 ==

I was reading a new thread in the Disputes sub section and the communication to the frontline has to be better. The information is all there, any controller knows any ticket acceptance is paged via Tyrell and put in the daily control log, so why it fails to filter down can be a mystery.

Some frontline staff have a knack for not taking in any information from Control offices, and then are shocked when it causes issues for them later on...

 

[Tetchytyke]

So Northern/TPE/LNER and Northern/TPE/EMR, so a Northern or TPE customer can use any of the four in disruption, but an EMR or LNER passenger can't use each other?

Basically, yes.

The spirit of the agreement is for their shared routes, e.g. Liverpool-Manchester-Sheffield, where you have Northern, TPE, and EMR all running hourly (or less frequent) trains. Rather than having to wait an hour or more for the next train of the same TOC if there’s a cancellation, you can just get on the next one.

If LNER have a cancellation from King’s Cross then you’d just get the next LNER.

If the ECML goes up the spout then usually EMR and Avanti will accept LNER tickets, so no change there either.

 

[johnnychips]

This is very useful for me if the hourly Northern between Leeds and Doncaster is cancelled (to be fair, only once in six months), though I suspect other passengers are unaware. It is not announced at the station, and I expect this is to avoid passengers who are not listening properly thinking the LNER is going to become all-stations.