EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments

[yorksrob]

I agree. The refurbishment of the 158 done for EMT when by Stagecoach has certainly lasted quite well. They certainly don’t feel like trains that are almost 35 years old now. I don‘t suppose they will have much more than another 10 years in service. I won’t start speculation about what old second hand stock the East Midlands will then get to replace them.

A switch from gaudy bright red would be welcome.

 

[ChrisC]

A switch from gaudy bright red would be welcome.

Definately, but it’s worn surprisingly well.

 

[yorksrob]

Definately, but it’s worn surprisingly well.

Moquette is very durable.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No consistency among 170s then.

170/5 gets FISA Lean throughout with the Lazarinis ditched, and 170/2 gets FISA Lean in one tiny ex First class area and retaining the Chapman seats everywhere else - I assume the 170/4s will be the same. I personally think the Chapman seats have the most disgraceful, useless pull down trays of any seat. At least the Lazarini ones are large and very robust.

Moquette is can be very durable.

Reflecting the state of SWT 450s around the time of the franchise takeover.

 

[yorksrob]

Reflecting the state of SWT 450s around the time of the franchise takeover.

I suppose it depends how long it was in. Even moquette doesn't last forever !

 

[Cowley]

I think we may be drifting off topic ever so slightly here…

 

[RealTrains07]

The Modern Railways story states that the 158s would have less refurbishment than the other classes due to less life remaining. It mentions new seat cover and foams but nothing else, and as sockets are only mentioned for the 360s I think it's very unlikely the 158s will see any change. Also I've read somewhere here that 158 electrical systems can't support the load from a full fit-out of mains sockets (the ones with First Class have sometimes had them there). This isn't particularly great, considering they operate EMR's longest journeys, and the fact an essentially random selection of them don't even have USB is even worse.

Not surprising, “less life remaining” sounds more like EMR making excuses to cut costs despite the fact that the east midlands 158s unlikely to be going anywhere anytime soon.

No real reason why they can’t receive the same quality of refurb as the rest of the regional fleet

 

[D365]

The 158s without USBs will get them, but that's all.

170s getting 3 pin/USB A and C combined sockets on the seat backs.

Thanks for confirmation.

Not surprising, “less life remaining” sounds more like EMR making excuses to cut costs despite the fact that the east midlands 158s unlikely to be going anywhere anytime soon.

No real reason why they can’t receive the same quality of refurb as the rest of the regional fleet

That’s my thought too - I wasn’t aware that EMR has any short or medium term plan for replacement of 158s.

 

[LowLevel]

Thanks for confirmation.


That’s my thought too - I wasn’t aware that EMR has any short or medium term plan for replacement of 158s.

The latest "business plan" as they're now called has the consideration of replacements for 158s starting within the next 2 years, with the plan being life expiry and withdrawal by 2030. Who knows what will actually happen. The 170s and 360s however are, so far as I know, expected to run until approximately 2040.

 

[RealTrains07]

The latest "business plan" as they're now called has the consideration of replacements for 158s starting within the next 2 years, with the plan being life expiry and withdrawal by 2030. Who knows what will actually happen. The 170s and 360s however are, so far as I know, expected to run until approximately 2040.

Its a pointless exercise. Unless they can somehow procure enough 170s to replace whole fleet which I doubt since emr have already gained all the unwanted 170s. They are better off fully refurbishing the 158s and wait till they are actually life expired before replacing them

 

[Mollman]

The latest "business plan" as they're now called has the consideration of replacements for 158s starting within the next 2 years, with the plan being life expiry and withdrawal by 2030. Who knows what will actually happen. The 170s and 360s however are, so far as I know, expected to run until approximately 2040.

That makes sense regarding 158s. Modern Railways recently gave 2030 as the date for full MML electrification to Sheffield plus Network North highlights Hope Valley for electrification. That starts to work in the favour of bi-modes taking over Liverpool to Norwich - especially as by then there might also be a plan to electrify the CLC and Peterborough to Ely.

 

[Killingworth]

That makes sense regarding 158s. Modern Railways recently gave 2030 as the date for full MML electrification to Sheffield plus Network North highlights Hope Valley for electrification. That starts to work in the favour of bi-modes taking over Liverpool to Norwich - especially as by then there might also be a plan to electrify the CLC and Peterborough to Ely.

MML may be fully electrified to Sheffield by early 2030s but unlikely much before 2035. Huw Merriman effectively admitted that when recently viewing the almost complete Hope Valley capacity work. I doubt Hope Valley will have got to Totley Tunnel by then, although planning may have progressed to projected completion by mid 2040s. The 158s may soldier on well into the 2030s.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

MML may be fully electrified to Sheffield by early 2030s but unlikely much before 2035. Huw Merriman effectively admitted that when recently viewing the almost complete Hope Valley capacity work. I doubt Hope Valley will have got to Totley Tunnel by then, although planning may have progressed to projected completion by mid 2040s. The 158s may soldier on well into the 2030s.

The decision on the 158s may come in 2 to 3 years when more clarity persists on electrification plans and passenger numbers, I suspect there might even not be a direct replacement as the Norwich Liverpool service could still be split as was planned before the pandemic.
Given all the uncertainties I suspect 158s will soldier on until they can't anymore

 

[fgwrich]

Without getting too worked up over the 158s, could it also be because they aren’t is as bad a state as the mixbag 170s are? I mean, new seat covers and potentially matching carpets would see them through a good few years yet, vs the mix of Southern, ScotRail, London Midland and Anglian Transport for Wales, that the Turbostars presently have.

 

[Trainman40083]

Without getting too worked up over the 158s, could it also be because they aren’t is as bad a state as the mixbag 170s are? I mean, new seat covers and potentially matching carpets would see them through a good few years yet, vs the mix of Southern, ScotRail, London Midland and Anglian Transport for Wales, that the Turbostars presently have.

Yes, but the EMR 170s are about to be refurbished.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes, but the EMR 170s are about to be refurbished.

I know. But my point is, if the 158s are in a better internal state than the Turbostars, why do they need as much money spent on them, or as much work doing to them as the Turbostars?

The Grammer seats are fine - apart from reducing the high capacity layout a little, they’re fine as they are with just carpets and covers requiring replacement.

 

[dosxuk]

The 158's are getting old and won't carry on forever. There should be a plan in place now for their replacement, especially on the long distance / high speed routes like Liverpool - Norwich, even if the actual construction start date is a few years in the future. But strategic planning seems to be a naughty word in the passenger side of the railways in the UK, so we end up with brand new trains replacing trains only halfway through their lifespan, while others that are already past their ideal lifespan are expected to continue on indefinitely with only a bit of a cosmetic touch up.