EMT: Master Cutler Issues

[AlexS]

Tim Shoveller / David Horne don't manage that, Eastcroft (it's not Nottingham) depot is managed (and possibly owned) by Maintrain, so 222001 is right. I had a letter from Tim shoveller with many thanks for my letter to him, saying it was refeshing to know someone with an understanding of his company's current situation. Maybe if you were nice and didn't moan for once you'd get something like that. That letter made my day and you never stop grumbling - it doesn't make sense.

And how the hell is it EMT's fault that scummy passengers make the trains dirty?

Don't think it is managed by Maintrain anymore - I believe the DfT for whatever reason objected to it's continued existence and it's now managed in house - Maintrain was a National Express Group company.

London Midland for example certainly run Tyseley.

 

[Failed Unit]

Looking at the previous timetable trains to London departed Sheffield as follows. Current timetable in black (old one in red)

0527 arrives 0809
0556 arrives 0838 (via Nottingham)
0600 arrived 0842 (via Nottingham)
0625 arrived 0855
0627 arrives 0857
0630 arrived 0912 (via Nottingham)
0647 arrives 0913
0705 arrived 0929
0714 arrived 1019 (via Nottingham)
0727 arrived 0933 (Master Cutler)
0727 arrives 0937 (Master Cutler)
0732 arrives 1019 (via Nottingham)
0744 arrives 1006
0827 arrived 1048
0827 arrives 1034

So it is not as clear cut, EMT have made a mistake but Sheffield has more services. Before December 0727 used to be a no brainer as if you decided to 0705 the service got into London only a few minutes ahead of the Culter anyway. This timetable has only been in operation for a short period of time, it could just be a case that people don't know about the other options hence why they still all book on the Cutler. Just a case of automatically booking for the approx time you have booked for years. Maybe in a few months time the loadings will have spread out. EMT maybe should have publisised the changes better before the timetable change. But overall Sheffield has seen an improvement!

EMT definately won't want to lose passengers using 1st open returns, if they are going to make thier premium they will need more of them!

Passengers will find other options, I personally rarely use XC anymore prefering to travel via London to avoid the overcrowding. I will return to the HST operated services, along with other once I know they are less crowded and double voyagers. The same will happen on the 0727, people may not know that the 0744 existed and may move over when they do! I know this thread keeps getting hi-jacked but Mr Widnes traveller has a choice as well, use Northerns slower service or stand on EMT's. He prefers to stand so shouldn't really moan when he has other options. (enough said)

I suspect come Dec 2009 we will see London - Sheffield every 30 minutes and the 5 cars won't be such an issue. I still don't totally understand why the HST's were removed. It is claimed they can't keep timings but they have managed to when HST's have substituted the 222's so that can't be the full reason. I suspect it is more that the diagrams interwork with Corby, HST's don't have selective door operation so as a result would need coaches locked out of use to run to Corby, making it operationally a pain in the backside. I know they can't fit on Loughborough either but this station has "Grandfather rights". It does seem odd to see the HST's on the least busy services.

I am sure EMT will sort it out permanetly in May is hopefully not before. I have noticed it normally takes about 3 weeks to re-daigram units.

 

[D841]

Looking at the previous timetable trains to London departed Sheffield as follows. Current timetable in black (old one in red)

0527 arrives 0809
0556 arrives 0838 (via Nottingham)
0600 arrived 0842 (via Nottingham)
0625 arrived 0855
0627 arrives 0857
0630 arrived 0912 (via Nottingham)
0647 arrives 0913
0705 arrived 0929
0714 arrived 1019 (via Nottingham)
0727 arrived 0933 (Master Cutler)
0727 arrives 0937 (Master Cutler)
0732 arrives 1019 (via Nottingham)
0744 arrives 1006
0827 arrived 1048
0827 arrives 1034

So it is not as clear cut, EMT have made a mistake but Sheffield has more services.

Before December 0727 used to be a no brainer as if you decided to 0705 the service got into London only a few minutes ahead of the Culter anyway. This timetable has only been in operation for a short period of time, it could just be a case that people don't know about the other options hence why they still all book on the Cutler. Just a case of automatically booking for the approx time you have booked for years. Maybe in a few months time the loadings will have spread out. EMT maybe should have publisised the changes better before the timetable change. But overall Sheffield has seen an improvement!

EMT definately won't want to lose passengers using 1st open returns, if they are going to make thier premium they will need more of them!

Passengers will find other options, I personally rarely use XC anymore prefering to travel via London to avoid the overcrowding. I will return to the HST operated services, along with other once I know they are less crowded and double voyagers. The same will happen on the 0727, people may not know that the 0744 existed and may move over when they do! I know this thread keeps getting hi-jacked but Mr Widnes traveller has a choice as well, use Northerns slower service or stand on EMT's. He prefers to stand so shouldn't really moan when he has other options. (enough said)

I suspect come Dec 2009 we will see London - Sheffield every 30 minutes and the 5 cars won't be such an issue. I still don't totally understand why the HST's were removed. It is claimed they can't keep timings but they have managed to when HST's have substituted the 222's so that can't be the full reason. I suspect it is more that the diagrams interwork with Corby, HST's don't have selective door operation so as a result would need coaches locked out of use to run to Corby, making it operationally a pain in the backside. I know they can't fit on Loughborough either but this station has "Grandfather rights". It does seem odd to see the HST's on the least busy services.

I am sure EMT will sort it out permanetly in May is hopefully not before. I have noticed it normally takes about 3 weeks to re-daigram units.

So - 1 additional service, if I count correctly. I wonder how much demand there is for an 05.27 departure?

I agree that EMT need as many 1st class full fares as they can get, but not providing enough accommodation on the Master Cutler, which has been Sheffield's main business train to London (1st Marylebone, then Kings Cross, and now St. Pancras) for decades, will just drive even more more business people to go to Doncaster for NXEC. Depending on where you live, you can drive to Doncaster almost as quickly as you can to Sheffield Midland, and I'm sure a lot of people do.

If EMT are serious about the issue, they need to make the Master Cutler a much more attractive option than the NXEC competitive service.

 

[Failed Unit]

I agree D841 that the need to attract people alway from NEEC, as stated already on here there are services via Doncaster that are in fact quicker than direct if you get a good connection and limited stop out of Doncaster.

Likewise if you live say at Rotherham you will drift towards Doncaster as well.

I will be picky on the "just one train increase" however, under the old timetable you wouldn't really travel via Nottingham for time, there is now 1 less service via Nottingham as it runs via Derby instead so that is in effect a 2 train increase.

I think the major change is that the 7:05 is really now the 6:47 and isn't caught up with by London like the old 0705 used to be. The 7:44 also provides a later option to break what used to be a one hour gap.

Not all negative.

 

[John_158]

The thing is was there a nesity to change the timetables so dramatically and if the people don't know about the other quicker services then there should be bigger more clear publications about it as we all know how these changes confuse the General Public.

Also may be a little of topic here by I have been thinking recently that Meridians & Voyagers where actually built wrong as they should have all been built to the same length rather than the Voyagers be 4&5 Cars they should have both been built to Six Car Formations and the Meridians built to 8 Car Formations.

If this had been done then Services Such as the Master Cutler wouldn't be in such a mess but with regards to the timetables i keep wondering why they pay people so much money to just simply make a complete mess when things previous ran quite well.

 

[Failed Unit]

The thing is was there a nesity to change the timetables so dramatically and if the people don't know about the other quicker services then there should be bigger more clear publications about it as we all know how these changes confuse the General Public.

Was lots of publicity for people that use the railway at lot, stations, press releases (in local papers), EMT website. Even Look North but not everyone takes notice, they may look online, see little change with thier prefered train and not look at other times. Not sure what more EMT could have done to be honest to publise the new timetable!

Also may be a little of topic here by I have been thinking recently that Meridians & Voyagers where actually built wrong as they should have all been built to the same length rather than the Voyagers be 4&5 Cars they should have both been built to Six Car Formations and the Meridians built to 8 Car Formations.

Remember the 4 car Meridians were built to replace 2/3 car Class 170's. The 9 car Meridians were built for a new London - Leeds service. Niether were inteneded to replace HST's (some have been released to other operators), they were designed for expansion of MML!

If this had been done then Services Such as the Master Cutler wouldn't be in such a mess but with regards to the timetables i keep wondering why they pay people so much money to just simply make a complete mess when things previous ran quite well.

To improve things in the future. There are always winners and losers when you change a timetable but you don't see anyone from Nottingham complaining do you?

 

[John_158]

So to sum it all up EMT have come along and spoilt a good set up as it sounds like MML had a well run operation then Stagecoach come along and spoil everything By shrinking it and throwing a spaner in the works so to speek.

 

[Failed Unit]

So to sum it all up EMT have come along and spoilt a good set up as it sounds like MML had a well run operation then Stagecoach come along and spoil everything By shrinking it and throwing a spaner in the works so to speek.

John_158 you need to look at things objectively, some people are a lot happier under EMT and have better services than previously, others don't. You hatred of EMT seems to stop you seeing the facts which are these.

Stagecoach bid on a franchise that featured a new timetable. The DaFT proposed timetable was a lot worse than what we have now for some stations. If I recall 1 train per hour fast to Sheffield, 1 Train per hour fast to Leicester splitting at Leicester with a portion for Derby and Nottingham, 1 Slow to Nottingham and 1 slow to Nottingham. Market Harborough would have had 1 train per hour.

I digress, the well run operation that you describe from MML was going to be dismantled with a new timetable no matter who had got the franchise!

 

[222001]

Sheffield could soon have 2 trains per hour to London. How is that shrinking?

 

[eastmidschris]

John_158 you need to look at things objectively, some people are a lot happier under EMT and have better services than previously, others don't. You hatred of EMT seems to stop you seeing the facts which are these.

Stagecoach bid on a franchise that featured a new timetable. The DaFT proposed timetable was a lot worse than what we have now for some stations. If I recall 1 train per hour fast to Sheffield, 1 Train per hour fast to Leicester splitting at Leicester with a portion for Derby and Nottingham, 1 Slow to Nottingham and 1 slow to Nottingham. Market Harborough would have had 1 train per hour.

I digress, the well run operation that you describe from MML was going to be dismantled with a new timetable no matter who had got the franchise!

He was exactly the same on another railway forum website. I'm always really impressed by how any subject he can turn around to talk about the Liverpool-Norwich route!!!

 

[90019]

He was exactly the same on another railway forum website. I'm always really impressed by how any subject he can turn around to talk about the Liverpool-Norwich route!!!

You'd think it's the only route in the UK, the way he constantly complains talks about it.

 

[yorkie]

Stagecoach bid on a franchise that featured a new timetable. The DaFT proposed timetable was a lot worse than what we have now for some stations. ...

Didn't NR veto that proposal as they really dislike the idea of coupling/uncoupling long distance DMUs? They also objected to GrandUnion (or whatever they're called) doing this at Donny on the ECML. Both Donny and Leicester are unsuited to that anyway due to a lack of spare platforms.

 

[paul1609]

Haywards Heath has a lot more trains per hour than either Doncaster or leicester and only 4 platforms but they manage to couple uncouple at least 4 (proper length) trains there an hour and have done for many years

 

[MCR247]

4? Isnt it 2. 1: Eastbourne & Littlehampton, 2: Ore & Littlehampton? Or by that do you mean four?

 

[Failed Unit]

4? Isnt it 2. 1: Eastbourne & Littlehampton, 2: Ore & Littlehampton? Or by that do you mean four?

I think he is referring to the number of platforms at Haywards Heath. Faversham is the same, 4 platforms and 2 trains per hour in each direction splitting / joining and timekeeping isn't any worse than other routes!

I am sure the splitting up of the Lincoln - Birmingham service has caused more problems at Leicester than splitting / joining trains ever will as that has added a terminating service into the equation which occupy space a lot longer than through trains do splitting or not. In response to Yorkie, I am not sure if Network rail killed off the splitting joining issue. I feel it is a bit of a red herring that it makes the network unreliable with all the daily examples of it all over the UK, on routes with very good PPM figures.

 

[martyn29]

Sheffield could soon have 2 trains per hour to London. How is that shrinking?

When will that happen in the new May timetable? and will it be a fast?

 

[222001]

When will that happen in the new May timetable? and will it be a fast?

I think it is something they are thinking of introducing for 2010 (December 2009 timetable change). It was in one the interviews with Tim Shoveller who said that they would do it by "better use of our intercity stock".

 

[tbtc]

will it be a fast?

If it happens, it'll be an extension of the existing "slow" service to Derby, so around fifteen minutes slower than the existing Sheffield service