Engineers Trains Through T3 Possession

[iecc2001]

Is it permissable to allow a booked T3 to remain on whilst allowing an engineering train (not booked to work within the limits) to transit though the possession. The train would be met by the PICOP at the entrance protection and then allowed through the line under possession. The train is showing (in my opinion wrongly) in the WON to complete this movement between an allocated timeframe without the possession being cancelled.

Just wondering if anyone had come across this or if it was a clerk in an office that has misinterpreted National Operating Instructions Unit 17 T3, 10.1.1.

Thanks guys n gals

 

[TheBigD]

Yes. Happened on pretty much every possession last year when they were replacing the timbers on Welney bridges.
Numerous engineers trains to/from Whitemoor ran through the possession, including running wrong line.

 

[Dunnideer]

Seconded, it’s permitted. If it was an ‘ordinary’ freight train then no but an engineer’s train going to or from another job is ok.

 

[iecc2001]

I know we used to do it it the 90s but it all stopped unless the engineers train was booked to work within the job. Some folk were saying they had a briefing 5-7 years back about a proposal to introduce it but nothing else happened regarding it being introduced. Thanks for the knowledge though guys its appreciated..

Anyone need any info regarding the West of Scotland Signalling ctr here in Glasgow just drop me a note and I'll assist if possible..

 

[E27007]

Is it permissable to allow a booked T3 to remain on whilst allowing an engineering train (not booked to work within the limits) to transit though the possession. The train would be met by the PICOP at the entrance protection and then allowed through the line under possession. The train is showing (in my opinion wrongly) in the WON to complete this movement between an allocated timeframe without the possession being cancelled.

Just wondering if anyone had come across this or if it was a clerk in an office that has misinterpreted National Operating Instructions Unit 17 T3, 10.1.1.

Thanks guys n gals

If the movement has been agreed and planned into the possession arrangements, then it should be possible, it will not be popular with the men on the ground though, the complication is mostly with worksites, the Engineering Supervisor for each worksite will have to deal the movement through his worksite, having work parties stop work and move equipment out of the way then stand aside for the passage of the engineering train. Work in the worksites can be quite involved, such as scaffolding that cannot easily be removed, erected on or over the line , track panels or rails may have been lifted. Green Zone working becomes Red Zone when there are such movements.

 

[iecc2001]

Thanks for the great reply, my only issue is the very last part regarding Red Zone Working. Red zone is banned in Scotland maybe that’s why is not been done in 25 years

 

[GB]

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== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2022 ==

Thanks for the great reply, my only issue is the very last part regarding Red Zone Working. Red zone is banned in Scotland maybe that’s why is not been done in 25 years

Trains move all the time within possessions and worksites, one that is transiting is no different in that regard.

 

[endofthetunnel]

As GB says, trains frequently transit through other worksites in T3s to get to their own worksite further along the same T3 so as far as those ESs are concerned it’s exactly the same.
It’s only seemingly unusual because you know it’s not doing any work while it’s in this particular T3, but there’s nothing wrong with it if booked/planned properly, and makes no difference to those working in it.

 

[LAX54]

As GB says, trains frequently transit through other worksites in T3s to get to their own worksite further along the same T3 so as far as those ESs are concerned it’s exactly the same.
It’s only seemingly unusual because you know it’s not doing any work while it’s in this particular T3, but there’s nothing wrong with it if booked/planned properly, and makes no difference to those working in it.

It must be in the WON, and it is a very time consuming exercise !

 

[Annetts key]

If a train has to travel through a T3 and various worksites, it means any work that either requires no trains to be present, or which will affect the ability of a train to travel through the worksite, cannot start until all trains have completed their movements.

That’s fine if it has been properly planned, but it does reduce how much work can be carried out in the T3. So you may comprise the whole point of having a T3…