English City Regions to get £6.9 billion for transport funding

[johncrossley]

It's all well and good trying to encourage cycling... but to do so in Bradford, a city notorious for being very much not flat, is another thing altogether!

Luckily we now have electric bikes, meaning hills are now irrelevant.

Isn't there a fully prioritised railway route between these two?

Presumably this will serve a lot more intermediate places than the existing rail route. The existing train route will continue to cater for Bath - Bristol direct traffic.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Luckily we now have electric bikes, meaning hills are now irrelevant.

Poverty and crime aren't though- again especially in cities like Bradford. Your minimum-wage pot-washer working in Bradford City centre isn't going to have the means to get an electric bike that will only end up making them a target for muggers.

 

[Ianno87]

Poverty and crime aren't though- again especially in cities like Bradford. Your minimum-wage pot-washer working in Bradford City centre isn't going to have the means to get an electric bike that will only end up making them a target for muggers.

But plenty of people will work for employers who have Cycle to Work schemes, which are an a affordable way of getting expensive kit (we got a Cargo bike this way).

And even if you don't have access to such a scheme, you benefit from other people choosing bikes over, say, driving, and taking congestion of the roads (plus the improvement in air quality).

And cities should invest in secure cycle storage too.

 

[scrapy]

I fully agree. The current Labour lot here are beyond useless. I’ve just seen what Tyne & Wear wanted the money for and I’m not surprised they weren’t successful when just about everywhere else in England was. Even the Government aren’t mad enough to think Newcastle needs three bus stations.

Do we know that they weren't successful in getting any? The BBC article says 'areas set to receive funding include' that suggests to me more areas are receiving funding but the details haven't yet been leaked yet.

 

[yorkie]

For potential Merseyrail expansion please use the following thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/possible-merseyrail-expansion.223842/

For Bristol - Bath buses please use the following thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ed-bus-route-between-bristol-and-bath.223843/

If anyone would like to discuss any other proposal in more detail please create a new thread (if there isn't one already)

 

[johncrossley]

Poverty and crime aren't though- again especially in cities like Bradford. Your minimum-wage pot-washer working in Bradford City centre isn't going to have the means to get an electric bike that will only end up making them a target for muggers.

The main users of electric bikes seem to be food delivery people, among the lowest paid people in society. Often with makeshift conversions from a regular bike. The affluent prefer to ride expensive unpowered machines.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know that they weren't successful in getting any? The BBC article says 'areas set to receive funding include' that suggests to me more areas are receiving funding but the details haven't yet been leaked yet.

Didn’t Metro Flow get a big contribution this time last year? A lot more than we get in South Hants most years…

 

[edwin_m]

I fully agree. The current Labour lot here are beyond useless. I’ve just seen what Tyne & Wear wanted the money for and I’m not surprised they weren’t successful when just about everywhere else in England was. Even the Government aren’t mad enough to think Newcastle needs three bus stations.

Pray tell?

 

[jamesst]

Unless I misunderstand:

Merseytravel is essentially part of Liverpool City Region, which includes Runcorn (Halton council)

Merseyrail is essentially one of the TOCs providing services within Liverpool City Region (albeit with some historical extensions outside Liverpool City Region)

Officially its Merseyrail Electrics who are the TOC (Northern and Wirral lines) although all publicity just states Merseyrail.
In case it isn't complicated enough already Merseytravel also group most of the railway network in Merseyside under the Merseyrail name with associated publicity and signage. As this includes the City Line which actually comes under Northern you can imagine the confusion it can cause...

 

[matacaster]

Luckily we now have electric bikes, meaning hills are now irrelevant.



Presumably this will serve a lot more intermediate places than the existing rail route. The existing train route will continue to cater for Bath - Bristol direct traffic.

... and the coat of electric bikes typically is?

 

[childwallblues]

I thought it meant Ditton, but that would be Widnes.

Ditton railway station - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I wasn't aware of any plans for a station towards Runcorn.

It may be at Beechwood on the Halton Chord

 

[D821]

It may be at Beechwood on the Halton Chord

Ah, I've heard of that. I think I got it confused with Beechwood in Wirral.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I’m wondering if the west Bradford cycle way will include Queensbury Tunnel scheme, which the HA were trying to fill in recently.

No, I don't think so. It appears to be this scheme: https://www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/thorntoncycle . That said, it would make it much easier for Bradford residents to reach Queensbury Tunnel when it reopens.

... and the coat of electric bikes typically is?

£750 upwards, which is the same as 13 months of a Bradford bus pass, and compares pretty favourably with a Dacia Sandero at £10,000. Mrs Fegg has recently started using an electric bike for her commute (20 hilly miles round-trip) and is delighted with it.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Noteable lack of any funding for Tyne & Wear here...

Metro already getting a big upgrade and the Ashington line so are they not ahead of other areas.

 

[thenorthern]

It all looks fancy but I doubt much of it will come to fruition as much of the things have been promised before however the promises never materialised.

It's obviously designed to keep the voters in the red wall seats who voted Conservative at the last election although I think the plans themselves will backfire on the Conservative Party.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Well this is top news item on BBC1 just now not often transport gets top billing

 

[Greybeard33]

Does the funding for tram trains include the infrastructure to be able to use them? I.e. connections from Marple/wherever onto the existing tram network? £1.07bn sounds like it ought to be funding this aspect too.

The GMCA published a detailed description of its bid for funding in its City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement Prospectus last month:

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/b12111/Second%20supplemental%20agenda%20-%20GMCA%2010%20September%202021%2010th-Sep-2021%2010.00%20Greater%20Manchester%20Combine.pdf?T=9

The bid was for £1.19bn, of which the Treasury has approved £1.07bn.

Only £116m was requested for the Future Metrolink Programme, broken down into £67m for the New Metrolink Extensions Package and £78m for the Tram Train Package. In comparison, £238m was requested for the Highway Maintenance Programme, £209m for the Streets for All Programme [town centre regeneration], £184m for the Bus Programme, £125m for the HS2 Programme [Piccadilly, Airport, Stockport and Wigan local transport Connectivity Packages], £104m for the Minor Works and Road Safety Programme, £82m for the Stops and Interchanges Programme, £63m for the Active Travel Programme, £49m for the Rail Programme [Access for All, Station Improvements and New Stations Packages] and £21m for the Metrolink Renewals Programme.

A local contribution of £29m will boost the Future Metrolink funding to £145m, to be spent on:

• developing and delivering a next generation of Metrolink vehicles that are capable of tram-train operation on both the Metrolink network and the National Rail network;
• developing current Restoring Your Railways sponsored work to start to deliver a tramtrain pilot between a number of our northern towns and the Northern Gateway development area as a Tram Train Pathfinder;
• complementing Network Rail replacement of the life-expired Greek Street Bridge near Stockport Station so that it is future proofed for future tram-train services between Stockport and Manchester Airport;
• kick-starting the delivery of the Metrolink Western Leg Airport Terminal 2 extension; and
• developing the next wave of Metrolink extensions, through full development and seeking statutory powers for their delivery in the second CRSTS funding cycle (with an immediate focus on developing options for potential Metrolink connections to Middleton / Northern Gateway, Salford Crescent / Media City and Stockport).

Other documents indicate that the tram-train pathfinder is proposed to operate between Oldham and Heywood via Rochdale, with a possible future extension to Bury along the ELR alignment. It is unclear if this will involve extension of Metrolink OLE to Heywood, or if the vehicles will have battery capability.

 

[johnnychips]

... and the coat of electric bikes typically is?

 

[futureA]

Surely that's just operating expenditure, the periodic replacement of vehicles, like periodically replacing the rails etc. Plus this is the third generation of vehicles that Manchester will have had, in a relatively short period of operation. Some are virtually brand new.

I am never particularly enamoured with those, particularly politicians (though their advising civil servants should certainly know better), who don't know the difference between capital expenditure and regular like-for-like repairs and renewals. How does it happen, not for the first time, that rolling stock engineers manage to scoop budgets meant for major new schemes?

The train trams will be used to expand the network to places it does not currently serve over network rail infrastructure. Not to replace the existing fleet.

 

[WatcherZero]

The GMCA published a detailed description of its bid for funding in its City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement Prospectus last month:

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/b12111/Second%20supplemental%20agenda%20-%20GMCA%2010%20September%202021%2010th-Sep-2021%2010.00%20Greater%20Manchester%20Combine.pdf?T=9

The bid was for £1.19bn, of which the Treasury has approved £1.07bn.

Only £116m was requested for the Future Metrolink Programme, broken down into £67m for the New Metrolink Extensions Package and £78m for the Tram Train Package. In comparison, £238m was requested for the Highway Maintenance Programme, £209m for the Streets for All Programme [town centre regeneration], £184m for the Bus Programme, £125m for the HS2 Programme [Piccadilly, Airport, Stockport and Wigan local transport Connectivity Packages], £104m for the Minor Works and Road Safety Programme, £82m for the Stops and Interchanges Programme, £63m for the Active Travel Programme, £49m for the Rail Programme [Access for All, Station Improvements and New Stations Packages] and £21m for the Metrolink Renewals Programme.

A local contribution of £29m will boost the Future Metrolink funding to £145m, to be spent on:

Other documents indicate that the tram-train pathfinder is proposed to operate between Oldham and Heywood via Rochdale, with a possible future extension to Bury along the ELR alignment. It is unclear if this will involve extension of Metrolink OLE to Heywood, or if the vehicles will have battery capability.

Almost certainly battery, diesel was considered a decade ago for the project. Wont be electrification as the heritage line, East Lancashire Railway, are firmly opposed to wires spoiling their view.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Officially its Merseyrail Electrics who are the TOC (Northern and Wirral lines) although all publicity just states Merseyrail.

ME trains are still announced as "Merseyrail Electrics" by TfW at Chester.

 

[childwallblues]

Officially its Merseyrail Electrics who are the TOC (Northern and Wirral lines) although all publicity just states Merseyrail.
In case it isn't complicated enough already Merseytravel also group most of the railway network in Merseyside under the Merseyrail name with associated publicity and signage. As this includes the City Line which actually comes under Northern you can imagine the confusion it can cause...

The confusion as you call it does not exist to 99 per cent of passengers who are unconcerned about the signage. All stations on the City Line within Merseyside with the exception of Lime Street but including Hough Green are branded Merseyrail as Merseytravel are the station sponsors, although the staff are employed by Northern.

 

[inais20]

Noteable lack of any funding for Tyne & Wear here...

Didn’t Metro Flow get a big contribution this time last year? A lot more than we get in South Hants most years…

Yep, £95m last year for Metro Flow, £337m for new trains and some additional funding last year to keep Metro running during the pandemic so T&W has done ok in terms of government support recently.

 

[JKF]

No, I don't think so. It appears to be this scheme: https://www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/thorntoncycle . That said, it would make it much easier for Bradford residents to reach Queensbury Tunnel when it reopens.

That web page actually states:

• a southern spur off the route following the Great Northern Railway Trail to Queensbury via Station Road and passing the entrance to Queensbury Tunnel

which sounds positive and will make the case for repurposing the tunnel much stronger. Having looked into the current state of the tunnel it sounds like they’ve made a ridiculous expensive mess of whatever remedial works they were doing on the tunnel. The council is supportive of the cycling scheme but Highways England are being Highways England as usual.

 

[johncrossley]

but Highways England are being Highways England as usual.

They are not even doing a good job of being Highways England. They've changed their name (again).

 

[edwin_m]

The GMCA published a detailed description of its bid for funding in its City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement Prospectus last month:

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/b12111/Second%20supplemental%20agenda%20-%20GMCA%2010%20September%202021%2010th-Sep-2021%2010.00%20Greater%20Manchester%20Combine.pdf?T=9

The bid was for £1.19bn, of which the Treasury has approved £1.07bn.

Only £116m was requested for the Future Metrolink Programme, broken down into £67m for the New Metrolink Extensions Package and £78m for the Tram Train Package. In comparison, £238m was requested for the Highway Maintenance Programme, £209m for the Streets for All Programme [town centre regeneration], £184m for the Bus Programme, £125m for the HS2 Programme [Piccadilly, Airport, Stockport and Wigan local transport Connectivity Packages], £104m for the Minor Works and Road Safety Programme, £82m for the Stops and Interchanges Programme, £63m for the Active Travel Programme, £49m for the Rail Programme [Access for All, Station Improvements and New Stations Packages] and £21m for the Metrolink Renewals Programme.

A local contribution of £29m will boost the Future Metrolink funding to £145m, to be spent on:

Other documents indicate that the tram-train pathfinder is proposed to operate between Oldham and Heywood via Rochdale, with a possible future extension to Bury along the ELR alignment. It is unclear if this will involve extension of Metrolink OLE to Heywood, or if the vehicles will have battery capability.

Am I paranoid to notice that (with the limits of rounding) £1.19bn minus £1.07bn equals the £125m for HS2 connectivity?

 

[swt_passenger]

They are not even doing a good job of being Highways England. They've changed their name (again).

But not their web address!

 

[AM9]

Almost certainly battery, diesel was considered a decade ago for the project. Wont be electrification as the heritage line, East Lancashire Railway, are firmly opposed to wires spoiling their view.

So along with local politicians and wealthy 'respectable pillars of society', local rail enthusiasts are also filters in the process of improving the environment by electrifying railways?

 

[75A]

What a surprise, East Midlands ignored again, and again.

 

[Greybeard33]

Am I paranoid to notice that (with the limits of rounding) £1.19bn minus £1.07bn equals the £125m for HS2 connectivity?

Well, the Treasury might consider it premature to allocate funding for HS2 local connectivity when the Phase 2b hybrid Bill has not yet been deposited, much less passed. Especially when the GM proposals to amend the HS2 Ltd designs for the Piccadilly and Airport stations, to better integrate with Metrolink, would increase cost.