Escalators: why not wider?

[Bletchleyite]

It occurred to me while using the Lizzie Line yesterday - why do we persist with standard escalator widths when building totally new facilities? A standard width escalator is only just wide enough for someone to walk down one side while people (bigger than they used to be) stand on the other, with people having to lean over to pass others and knocking into each other, posing a risk of knocking them down. And if you order as many escalators as TfL does, specifying a wider one shouldn't be unaffordable?

Even if TfL were planning for the tried (but not overly successful) "stand on both sides" policy, they aren't even quite wide enough for that if the two people are two fully grown blokes.

 

[edwin_m]

If it was much wider, people might try to stand or walk in the middle, so wouldn't be able to hold the handrail.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Aren't most escalators made from off-the-shelf components? A non-standard width would probably increase costs significantly for a fairly marginal benefit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was much wider, people might try to stand or walk in the middle, so wouldn't be able to hold the handrail.

I'm thinking about 6" extra width would allow people to walk down without bashing the people standing. I'd agree that much more than that might result in dangerous misuse.

Aren't most escalators made from off-the-shelf components? A non-standard width would probably increase costs significantly for a fairly marginal benefit.

It's quite possibly that, but TfL buys a lot of escalators!

 

[bramling]

It occurred to me while using the Lizzie Line yesterday - why do we persist with standard escalator widths when building totally new facilities? A standard width escalator is only just wide enough for someone to walk down one side while people (bigger than they used to be) stand on the other, with people having to lean over to pass others and knocking into each other, posing a risk of knocking them down. And if you order as many escalators as TfL does, specifying a wider one shouldn't be unaffordable?

Even if TfL were planning for the tried (but not overly successful) "stand on both sides" policy, they aren't even quite wide enough for that if the two people are two fully grown blokes.

Not so sure about escalators, however I’ve always thought this with moving walkways. The ones at Waterloo are a nightmare to use if you just want to walk at a normal pace, such that it’s less frustrating not to use them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not so sure about escalators, however I’ve always thought this with moving walkways. The ones at Waterloo are a nightmare to use if you just want to walk at a normal pace, such that it’s less frustrating not to use them.

Yes, the ones to Manc Picc 13/14 are a bit narrow too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's only a single one, down to 13 (and 14b). Any extra width here would reduce the platform, admittedly the bit that few people use, but it is necessary for access to the lift or if a train is re-platformed to the other end.

I was referring to the moving walkways from the main station in reply to @bramling, not the very short escalators which have stairs too if you prefer to walk faster.

 

[Thirteen]

Aren't most escalators made from off-the-shelf components? A non-standard width would probably increase costs significantly for a fairly marginal benefit.

I suspect this is the reason they don't have wider escalators because to build a bespoke one is simply too expensive.

 

[SargeNpton]

Add in the extra cost of the wider tunnels needed to accommodate them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Add in the extra cost of the wider tunnels needed to accommodate them.

If you're digging lots of big holes like to build the Lizzie, making them slightly wider isn't going to dent that however-many-billion. Also, there are gaps between the escalators far wider than are necessary for the mechanisms.

 

[busestrains]

Do wider escalators actually exist? Have they been built anywhere? I am looking online and i can not find any evidence of anything other than the standard width escalators anywhere. There are lots of different types but they all seem to be the same width. So perhaps they are built to a certain standard that specifies the width? If so building wider ones would surely be very expensive as it would use non standard parts?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do wider escalators actually exist? Have they been built anywhere? I am looking online and i can not find any evidence of anything other than the standard width escalators anywhere. There are lots of different types but they all seem to be the same width. So perhaps they are built to a certain standard that specifies the width? If so building wider ones would surely be very expensive as it would use non standard parts?

I don't recall seeing wider ones, but I've certainly seen narrow ones, so there must be some flexibility.

 

[Mikey C]

I have no problem with standard escalators. From memory at Bank, the original ones down to the DLR are narrower than usual, which makes them effectively single file

 

[WatcherZero]

Seem to be quite similar sizes:

Mitsubishi

https://www.mitsubishielectric.com/elevator/products/basic/escalators/z_type_es/pdf/brochure.pdf

604/804/1004mm

Otis

https://www.otis.com/documents/256045/35445641/Brochure+Commercial+escalators+2015.pdf/cf8cde9f-1dbd-a349-0fc9-06008b8f72f0?t=1596805764490

600/800/1000mm

Kone are 800/1000mm as well
Hitachi 804/1004mm

Suggesting Japanese ones are 4mm wider than European ones but otherwise follow same standard sizes. While US manufactured ones seem to use both sizes depending on whether the company's origin is European or Asian.

 

[zwk500]

It's quite possibly that, but TfL buys a lot of escalators!

But they wouldn't be able to buy lots of wider ones for the whole system, and then you'd have the problems of having to maintain two separate widths for the contractor. And rebuilding tube stations to take wider escalators is in the same region of likelihood as converting the 3rd rail system to OLE.

 

[jon81uk]

Not so sure about escalators, however I’ve always thought this with moving walkways. The ones at Waterloo are a nightmare to use if you just want to walk at a normal pace, such that it’s less frustrating not to use them.

The new moving walkway at Bank is wider than the Waterloo one. Plenty of room to pass the slow people.

 

[quantinghome]

I wonder if there is some engineering reason which limits the width. Can't think what it might be but there may be one.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Cost cutting may have happened as newer TfL escalators don't seem to be of high quality as the 20+ yr old ones in the Jubliee line, these now come with standard grey steps, same as those in shops & malls etc, not as heavy duty like the older ones with the black steps first installed in the 1960s until recently.

Exactly as someone said "off the shelf", would cost TfL more to continue with special heavy duty escalators so hopefully the newer ones will last well if these are not made somewhere like China!

 

[D365]

I wonder if there is some engineering reason which limits the width. Can't think what it might be but there may be one.

It’d be far more expensive - more mass to move.

 

[futureA]

Escalators wider than 1m do not exist. None of the manufacturers make them and since escalator users are supposed to hold the handrail it is not hard to see why since legally they would not be able to carry any more people than a 1m wide one.

As others have suggested, getting specially made components for wider escalators would be mega expensive and that is not to mention the fact that there are already regulations which exist concerning the design and functioning of escalators which i'm not sure wider escalators would be able to pass.
If TFL wanted to ask the manufacturers to come up with a novel new design they would have to also get it tested to convince the regulator it was safe and this costs money as well.

That said, everytime I have used the Elizabeth Line when it is busy I have wondered why they only opted for banks of 3 escalators instead of 4.

 

[marko2]

Escalators wider than 1m do not exist. None of the manufacturers make them and since escalator users are supposed to hold the handrail it is not hard to see why since legally they would not be able to carry any more people than a 1m wide one.

As others have suggested, getting specially made components for wider escalators would be mega expensive and that is not to mention the fact that there are already regulations which exist concerning the design and functioning of escalators which i'm not sure wider escalators would be able to pass.
If TFL wanted to ask the manufacturers to come up with a novel new design they would have to also get it tested to convince the regulator it was safe and this costs money as well.

That said, everytime I have used the Elizabeth Line when it is busy I have wondered why they only opted for banks of 3 escalators instead of 4.

Making the a shaft a third bigger to accommodate a fourth escalate increases the volume needing to be excavated by a little more than 1.75 times. Building another escalator shaft - at twice the volume - now looks attractive as it can hold another three escalators.

Making the a shaft a third bigger to accommodate a fourth escalator increases the volume needing to be excavated by a little more than 1.75 times. Building another escalator shaft - at twice the volume - now looks attractive as it can hold another three escalators.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Also, it should be considered that some of the more frequently encountered wider traffic i.e. wheelchairs/buggies will use travelators/lifts. Travelators may be a more accessible and inclusive design option in future.

 

[bramling]

The new moving walkway at Bank is wider than the Waterloo one. Plenty of room to pass the slow people.

That’s actually really great to hear. Shame the Waterloo ones are so awful.

 

[thomalex]

The new moving walkway at Bank is wider than the Waterloo one. Plenty of room to pass the slow people.

They also seem to be actually moving as well