Escaping the evening peak by breaking a connecting ticket? (theoretical only!)

[andrewkeith5]

Hi all,

A few days ago, a friend of mine was complaining about the London Midland evening peak restrictions. On closer inspection of her ticket (Dudley Port > Birmingham New St Off Peak Day Ret, it looks like they're using restriction code GM:

Return Journey: 
By any train except not valid
on any train departing between
1635 and 1800 inc. from:
Birmingham New Street
Birmingham Snow Hill
Birmingham Moor Street
Five Ways
Jewellery Quarter

The afternoon/evening restriction does not apply if passengers hold tickets for
through journeys i.e._if a change of train is required at one of the five stations listed to complete their journey.

Now, what interested me was that last sentence - that is, the evening restriction doesn't apply if a change of journey is required - which suggests that the LM evening peak restrictions don't apply if you're using LM as a connecting service.

By way of investigation, I tried a Dudley Port to Birmingham International Off Peak Day Ret (which is cheaper than the Anytime return to New Street) - which doesn't seem to have any evening/return journey restrictions.

So, based on this and the fact that break of journey seems to be allowed on the Birmingham International ticket - would it be (theoretically!) OK to buy the cheaper off peak return to International, break the journey at New Street but not complete the journey - hence effectively making a return journey to New Street...?

Morally it's wrong I suppose (and if you get a human ticket gate a new street that actually cares (a rarity in my experience) you'll probably have a hell of a time explaining what a break of journey is), but is it technically/legally wrong? I can't think why it would be - is there a clause that says you must complete your journey if you start it!?

Look forward to the discussion!

Andrew

 

[yorkie]

Welcome to the forum.

Are you simply asking:

Is an Off Peak Return (CDR) from Dudley Port to Birmingham International valid by any train except those timed to depart before 0930, and is this ticket valid for travel from Dudley Port to Birmingham New Street?

The answer to that question is simply: Yes.

 

[telstarbox]

Nothing morally wrong about it if the "unrestricted" ticket is being used correctly in terms of BoJ.

Peak validity is determined by the restriction code - there isn't a blanket off-peak time despite what some staff think.

 

[All Line Rover]

Morally it's wrong I suppose (and if you get a human ticket gate a new street that actually cares (a rarity in my experience) you'll probably have a hell of a time explaining what a break of journey is), but is it technically/legally wrong? I can't think why it would be - is there a clause that says you must complete your journey if you start it!?

Look forward to the discussion!

Andrew

Not in my experience. Simply saying 'I am breaking my journey' or 'I am resuming a break of journey' will not result in the bat of an eyelid, never mind a confrontation.

 

[greatkingrat]

There is no evening peak restriction on a Dudley Port - Duddeston CDR either which is only £3.90.

 

[sheff1]

By way of investigation, I tried a Dudley Port to Birmingham International Off Peak Day Ret (which is cheaper than the Anytime return to New Street)

Where are you getting that from ? London Midland site shows it as 10p dearer.

 

[island]

Not in my experience. Simply saying 'I am breaking my journey' or 'I am resuming a break of journey' will not result in the bat of an eyelid, never mind a confrontation.

The Birmingham New Street gateline is not well known for being diligent about which tickets are passed.

 

[Jeni]

The Birmingham New Street gateline is not well known for being diligent about which tickets are passed.

I once showed an oyster card (accidentally) and they didn't notice!

 

[mattdickinson]

I once showed an oyster card (accidentally) and they didn't notice!

Oyster cards can be valid to Birmingham (if accompanied by a Chiltern Annual Gold Card)

 

[island]

Not New Street though?

 

[Drsatan]

I'm assuming they're not valid to New Street since Chiltern don't serve that station.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Thanks to you all for your advice seems like something that may actually be worth doing!

Special thanks to sheff1 for kindly pointing out that accountancy is not a career for me, and to greatkingrat for pointing out an even better option than the one I selected as an example!

Indeed the gateline staff are employed by London Midland and don't seem to get much job satisfaction, but it seems on the day my friend brought up the LM Peak restrictions there was a particularly diligent member of staff on duty!

To clarify some of the other comments, an Oyster card would NOT be valid in Birmingham New Street under any arrangement Chiltern Railways offer, unless a Chiltern train were diverted there. The only time an Oyster is valid on a Chiltern service to B'Ham Moor Street / Snow Hill would be at weekends if the card held a monthly or longer season ticket worth £150 a month or £1,500 a year or more (purchased from a Chiltern-managed station for travel into London Marylebone), in which case Chiltern offer free weekend travel across their network provided the Oyster is accompanied by the paper equivalent. A gold card is not necessary.

 

[island]

The only time an Oyster is valid on a Chiltern service to B'Ham Moor Street / Snow Hill would be at weekends if the card held a monthly or longer season ticket worth £150 a month or £1,500 a year or more (purchased from a Chiltern-managed station for travel into London Marylebone), in which case Chiltern offer free weekend travel across their network provided the Oyster is accompanied by the paper equivalent. A gold card is not necessary.

What's "the paper equivalent"?

 

[andrewkeith5]

What's "the paper equivalent"?

Probably not the same terminology as Chiltern use, but when they sell a season ticket on an Oyster they issue a paper copy/receipt type thing which you must carry with you if you are making use of their free weekend travel offer, as the guards wouldn't be carrying Oyster readers on the north-of-Banbury routes, and certainly the station staff wouldn't be able to verify your eligibility to travel.

 

[Goatboy]

You can show a Cheap Day Return from 1993 and get through the New Street Gateline I'd imagine. Quite what its purpose is I've no idea

 

[andrewkeith5]

You can show a Cheap Day Return from 1993 and get through the New Street Gateline I'd imagine. Quite what its purpose is I've no idea

Not something I'd recommend but probably entirely possible - alternatively try in the evening or weekend and you can normally stroll straight through as they're only part time staffed!

At least until 2015....when electronics take over again....I still can't decide if our over-reliance on ticket gates is good or bad, but I'm going with bad.