eTickets - you have to print for use at Moorgate??

[Downthelane]

Curious advice at MOG this morning from gate supervisor. Apparently my GN eTicket into MOG isn't valid on my phone, I have to print it????

First time in many months I have been told this and I can't believe its accurate.

MOG needs to be sorted and have the right scanners installed as GN can't sell eTickets that need a hard copy!

Where is the environmental logic in that?

 

[Haywain]

If you wish to travel to Moorgate the best advice is not to use eTickets.

 

[PeterC]

I am sure that TfL will fit the scanners if GN pay for them.

 

[Failed Unit]

I will take a look to see if the new entrance from the Elizabeth line has them, my gut feeling is it does but don't remember now.

 

[JoeM1V]

The problem seems to be that TfL staff the gateline, and unsurprisingly don’t have any training about e-tickets.

I got stopped at Old St a few months ago because the gateline attendant had never seen an e-ticket before and was convinced it was just a TOD booking confirmation. Not sure even printing it would have worked in that case.

Great Northern’s Twitter support were sympathetic but ultimately unhelpful.

 

[Downthelane]

If you wish to travel to Moorgate the best advice is not to use eTickets.

why? If GN sell and they are valid why would there be a problem?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this because Moorgate is issued as London Terminals for which they'd normally be OK, but LU doesn't want to accept them at Moorgate? It sounds a bit like the well documented Merseyrail issues.

 

[Downthelane]

I will take a look to see if the new entrance from the Elizabeth line has them, my gut feeling is it does but don't remember now.

but that surely doesn't give access to the Northern City Line (Great Northern) platforms directly?

 

[Failed Unit]

but that surely doesn't give access to the NCL platforms directly?

It doesn't, but I used to use the detour to avoid the standard "seek assistance" on the Carnet's before they installed the barriers. It was often quicker then having to wait for tfl staff to have a gap in other duties. But your are correct that you need to head towards the circle line. Not the best if you are in a hurry or don't know the station. Incidentally Moorgate doesn't seem to reject Carnet anymore (probably as the staff were annoyed) - but Kings Cross and WGC always do.

 

[Downthelane]

Is this because Moorgate is issued as London Terminals for which they'd normally be OK, but LU doesn't want to accept them at Moorgate? It sounds a bit like the well documented Merseyrail issues.

No I don't think it is. The issue is purely that MOG does not have the scanners to except eTickets, hence requiring barrier assistance to exit/enter.

However how printing a hard-copy ticket changes this is beyond me!

 

[Watershed]

E-tickets are mode-agnostic - they can be shown on any digital device as a PDF, or within the retailer's app, or printed out. The main thing is that the "barcode" (Aztec code) can be scanned and the journey details can be seen.

Unfortunately LU do not have e-ticket readers and so you will face hassle if you use an e-ticket at a LU managed station. I would suggest using a paper or smartcard ticket instead, to save time.

 

[Downthelane]

E-tickets are mode-agnostic - they can be shown on any digital device as a PDF, or within the retailer's app, or printed out. The main thing is that the "barcode" (Aztec code) can be scanned and the journey details can be seen.

Unfortunately LU do not have e-ticket readers and so you will face hassle if you use an e-ticket at a LU managed station. I would suggest using a paper or smartcard ticket instead, to save time.

I buy an eTicket online to "save time" at the departure station, and because my TOC tells me that this is more environmentally sustainable.

But I need to NOT use an eTicket to "save time" at the destination station.

Is this really 2022....?????

 

[Watershed]

I buy an eTicket online to "save time" at the departure station, and because my TOC tells me that this is more environmentally sustainable.

But I need to NOT use an eTicket to "save time" at the destination station.

Is this really 2022....?????

Buying a smartcard ticket is probably just as quick - if you have an Android phone with NFC you should be able to buy the ticket on an app and load it to your smartcard using your phone. If not, I think you can pick it up automatically when you enter the barriers/touch the validator. Or, if your journey is solely on GTR, you can even use KeyGo.

Unfortunately LU are still backwards in many respects and so whilst it's 2022, it often doesn't seem like it on LU!

 

[miklcct]

Buying a smartcard ticket is probably just as quick - if you have an Android phone with NFC you should be able to buy the ticket on an app and load it to your smartcard using your phone. If not, I think you can pick it up automatically when you enter the barriers/touch the validator. Or, if your journey is solely on GTR, you can even use KeyGo.

Unfortunately LU are still backwards in many respects and so whilst it's 2022, it often doesn't seem like it on LU!

Don't you need to wait 30 minutes before collecting a smartcard ticket?

 

[ainsworth74]

Don't you need to wait 30 minutes before collecting a smartcard ticket?

I get my Northern weekly seasons on smartcard and can load them from the Northern App (via my phone) after five minutes (though often quicker in practice).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't you need to wait 30 minutes before collecting a smartcard ticket?

With Trainline based sites there can be a delay before collecting anything (ToD or smartcard) as tickets are created in batches. With other sites it's pretty much immediate. Trainline might have fixed it, to be fair, so as to fulfil e-tickets properly.

 

[Failed Unit]

I buy an eTicket online to "save time" at the departure station, and because my TOC tells me that this is more environmentally sustainable.

But I need to NOT use an eTicket to "save time" at the destination station.

Is this really 2022....?????

Would keyGo work for you? It has challenges itself but also the auto delay repay is a good thing.

Challenges to me mean changes at King Cross (if going to Moorgate) and journey price calculations if you use different points to start / end your journey.

 

[Downthelane]

Would keyGo work for you? It has challenges itself but also the auto delay repay is a good thing.

Challenges to me mean changes at King Cross (if going to Moorgate) and journey price calculations if you use different points to start / end your journey.

To be honest I am more than happy with the eTicket approach.

But what is odd is that after months using this and showing the eTicket on my phone at MOG (without challenge) that the TfL staff member this morning said I had to print it.

How does a eTicket printed differ from an eTicket presented on my phone?

 

[ainsworth74]

How does a eTicket printed differ from an eTicket presented on my phone?

It doesn't. The staff member is making things up. Bluntly.

 

[Failed Unit]

To be honest I am more than happy with the eTicket approach.

But what is odd is that after months using this and showing the eTicket on my phone at MOG (without challenge) that the TfL staff member this morning said I had to print it.

How does a eTicket printed differ from an eTicket presented on my phone?

I must admit I have had fun with them at stations where they do have readers. I was challenged at WGC once with someone saying I had already used the ticket (the barrier gave a seek assistance but don't recall the code). However as this was an AP ticket for an LNER train I am not sure how I could have used it twice even if I wanted to. (unless I gave a friend a copy of said ticket I guess) But as you say phone or printing you can still copy such a ticket.

 

[Haywain]

why? If GN sell and they are valid why would there be a problem?

If you don’t want hassle don’t use eTickets at Moorgate.

Is this because Moorgate is issued as London Terminals for which they'd normally be OK, but LU doesn't want to accept them at Moorgate?

Yes, exactly that.

but that surely doesn't give access to the NCL platforms directly?

I’d be surprised to access Newcastle platforms from there!

 

[danielcanning]

But why don’t LU/TfL want to accept these e-tickets? What is the official reason, is there even one?

 

[Watershed]

But why don’t LU/TfL want to accept these e-tickets? What is the official reason, is there even one?

The primary reason is that neither they, nor the "big railway", are willing to pay for scanners to be added at LU gatelines.

A secondary issue is the fact that, even if they did have scanners at some or all gates, the throughput would be severely reduced, which could lead to overcrowding.

You just have to look at any major NR station with scanners to see how many people faff about trying to get the e-ticket up on their phone, waving their barcode at the smartcard reader/pad (as if that will help!) and vainly trying to align their phone to the scanner so that it will read the barcode.

TfL are still obliged to accept them but they certainly make it as difficult and inconvenient as possible.

 

[Haywain]

TfL are still obliged to accept them but they certainly make it as difficult and inconvenient as possible.

That might be your view but it isn’t shared by TfL.

 

[swt_passenger]

But why don’t LU/TfL want to accept these e-tickets? What is the official reason, is there even one?

They believe ticket gate operation is too slow with e-tickets. They can’t afford to update all of their individual barriers.

Then I think people have previously suggested having separate discrete gatelines just for e-tickets at a subset of stations, I’m not sure why but that was also thought to be impractical.

 

[Watershed]

That might be your view but it isn’t shared by TfL.

Well of course! But that is no different to e.g. them insisting that tickets must have a Maltese Cross to be valid on the Underground. Or the insupportable nonsense about break of journey they have come up with for the Crossrail core.

The simple fact is that they are not interested in such niceties as adhering to contracts.

 

[plugwash]

why? If GN sell and they are valid why would there be a problem?

Because unfortunately there is no effective way to punish the railway when they, or their partners, fail to follow their own rules.

If the CEOs of rail compnaies were faced with a criminal record for their staff refusing valid tickets I'm sure the problems would get fixed sharpishh.

 

[Watershed]

Because unfortunately there is no effective way to punish the railway when they, or their partners, fail to follow their own rules.

If the CEOs of rail compnaies were faced with a criminal record for their staff refusing valid tickets I'm sure the problems would get fixed sharpishh.

That's what it boils down to, precisely. It is not high enough up the agenda to matter.

Try raising it with customer services and you will either be told you are wrong, or that it was a one-off incident. Ask for confirmation that staff will be retrained and you'll be told it's a private issue they can't discuss.

Raise it with your MP or local councillor and if you are graced with a response, it will probably fob you off and tell you it's a matter for TfL that they cannot help you with.

Raise it with the DfT, the ORR or London Travelwatch and they will say it is a one-off incident... you get the gist.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses. Given that there is an easy alternative that costs exactly the same, this isn't the hill I would die on. There are certainly other instances, particularly where overcharging results, where it's more worthwhile taking it up.

 

[Failed Unit]

why? If GN sell and they are valid why would there be a problem?

For interest, does the ticket say Moorgate or London Terminals. I know the questions is pedantic, but as you know the route you can see where I am going with it. I do also find the Northern City line a total pain. Although it is a NR service at Old Street and Moorgate you certainly feel like they wish they could make it go away.

 

[Class800]

I’d be surprised to access Newcastle platforms from there!

Northern City Line