Eurostar: Additional passport check on arrival at St P?

[Brooke]

Hi all, having already cleared border controls at Gare du Nord on my way out of France, I’ve just been stopped again to have my passport checked on arrival at St Pancras.

This is by border officials at the newly installed desks just before the customs check hall prior to the exit.

This is a new additional check: it didn’t happen on my weekly commute last week!

Does anyone know what it’s for and why?

 

[StephenHunter]

Haven't those desks been there for years? The UK Border Force sign is the pre-2024 one with the St Edward's Crown on top...

 

[Brooke]

Haven't those desks been there for years? The UK Border Force sign is the pre-2024 one with the St Edward's Crown on top...

Hi, there were some there for years, absolutely. Those were used very occasionally, e.g. when there was a problem with the data transmitted and a recheck of the train was needed on arrival.

But now there are new desks in their place, with people checking passports, apparently for every train(?)

 

[StephenHunter]

Hi, there were some there for years, absolutely. Those were used very occasionally, e.g. when there was a problem with the data transmitted and a recheck of the train was needed on arrival.

But now there are new desks in their place, with people checking passports, apparently for every train(?)

Ah, we've got the Electronic Travel Authorisation now in force.

Apply for an electronic travel authorisation (ETA)

An ETA gives you permission to travel to the UK.

Who can get an ETA​

Whether you can get an ETA depends on:

• the date you travel
• your nationality as shown on your passport

 

[Trainbike46]

They're not planning to check every arrival in St Pancras, are they?
The whole point of outstationing border force is that the vast majority of the time there should be no checks in St Pancras

 

[Failed Unit]

It is just random from what I understand, when I went through last week some people were asked to show documents the majority walked through.

 

[Brooke]

Putting the pieces together then, I suppose there’s not (yet?) a way to check for ETAs reliably at the outstations and so this additional check has been put in place at St P.

Seems a bit daft (and wasteful) considering all the Border Force hanging out at the outstations, but hey, who am I to question it!

 

[route101]

Arrived at St Pancras last Sunday and there was two staff at these desks but didn't see anyone get stopped.There was more staff in the customs area but no one was getting stopped.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’ve been spot checked once in maybe 20 trips at St Pancras.

 

[thejuggler]

Just had my first Eurostar trip and no checks on arrival back at St Pancras.

However the departure area was an absolute shambles. There simply isn't the room for the number of passengers for two departures and all the luggage being transported.

 

[Birkonian]

I’ve been spot checked once in maybe 20 trips at St Pancras.

When Eurostar used Waterloo I got stopped. My suitcase was checked and the customs officer noticed my printed guide to the best beer bars in Brussels. He asked if he could photocopy it. I agreed but thought he had a cheek having delayed me by 10 minutes.

 

[Chester1]

I’ve been spot checked once in maybe 20 trips at St Pancras.

I would guess it is this or an intelligence driven check I.e. there was someone who was allowed to board in Paris to enable them to be detained at St Pancras.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Does anyone know what it’s for and why?

Generally speaking, they're used in these situations:

- There's someone that the UK wants to detain, but that they don't want to deal with the trouble of detaining them at the juxtaposed controls, as the facilities there are often quite limited for the amount of passengers transported. By making it seem like a 'random' check, they also avoid drawing attention to the fact that it's done this way. There are also some legal issues associated with detaining people and subsequently deporting them to the UK at the juxtaposed controls, except at Coquelles. Of course, if it's a serious matter such as a wanted murderer, they'll be detained immediately without letting them travel to the UK.

- There was an issue with recording and transmitting data at the juxtaposed control. This happens from time to time, and the biometric scanners are not always operational. There was an issue a while ago where biometric checks weren't carried out for technical reasons, and the Tory government made it clear that every passenger had to be biometrically checked.

- Sometimes it's a random intelligence check: you stop the person, and if they behave in a suspicious way, you can follow up with some questions to find out more. The juxtaposed controls don't have the capacity to carry out meaningful intelligence activities, so it's better to be carried out in St Pancras.

- It can be that these aren't really UK Border Force officers at all, but rather SO15 (or what used to be Special Branch). It can happen that they're looking for someone that they suspect to be using a fake identity, or that they want to pull someone who might have some connection to someone. It would be very politically difficult for them to operate at the juxtaposed controls, so these 'second line' checks serve an intelligence, not immigration function.

- Training purposes, i.e. teaching officers how to conduct random stops for the purpose of immigration control.

 

[nwales58]

It's how a french book publisher was detained so that he could be questioned using UK anti-terrorism laws, at the request of the french authorities, to gain access to his electronic devices a couple of years ago:

Met Police's arrest of French publisher abused anti-terror powers - report

The detention of Ernest Moret was found to be at odds with the rights to freedom of expression and protest.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Chester1]

It's how a french book publisher was detained so that he could be questioned using UK anti-terrorism laws, at the request of the french authorities, to gain access to his electronic devices a couple of years ago:

Met Police's arrest of French publisher abused anti-terror powers - report

The detention of Ernest Moret was found to be at odds with the rights to freedom of expression and protest.

www.bbc.co.uk

Now it would be harder to do that. Renaud Camus was refused UK ETA last week. He is a far right author who wrote about the "great replacement theory". It has been misreported that he was banned from the UK. Refusal of UK ETA doesn't ban someone from the UK, instead it means they need a visitor visa. He may successfully apply for a visa or have application rejected or may choose not to come to the UK.

 

[Railguy1]

No additional passport checks from Brussels on Saturday and I did not see anyone get stopped.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Now it would be harder to do that. Renaud Camus was refused UK ETA last week. He is a far right author who wrote about the "great replacement theory". It has been misreported that he was banned from the UK. Refusal of UK ETA doesn't ban someone from the UK, instead it means they need a visitor visa. He may successfully apply for a visa or have application rejected or may choose not to come to the UK.

I think in this case, it wouldn't change very much. If someone was of interest to the French authorities, they'd likely reach out to the UK to let them travel before getting them detained at St Pancras. It's a very nice way to get around national laws: being questioned on arrival to the UK means they can act almost without impunity, and there's the French PAF right there to "help", all without having to break either UK or French law.

 

[stadler]

I use Eurostar probably on average once a month in each direction (so i guess around ten to twelve return trips a year) and i have never been checked on arrival at St Pancras before. I always just walk straight off the train and out of the station without showing anything. So it must be very rare. I suspect as others have said it must be to do with intelligence of a person of interest onboard.

Just out of curiosity are you legally required to show your passport on arrival at St Pancras on these occasions they ask? You will have already gone through both Schengen exit immigration and UK entry immigration at Paris / Brussels / Amsterdam / Rotterdam so you are considered to be legally in the UK already. There is no requirement to show identification or give your details in the UK if you are stopped unless you are suspected of a crime. So i stuggle to see the legal basis for doing passport checks a second time after you have already completed them and are legally through passport control already. So i wonder if they are optional and passengers could simply refuse to show their passport again?

 

[Trainbike46]

Just out of curiosity are you legally required to show your passport on arrival at St Pancras on these occasions they ask? You will have already gone through both Schengen exit immigration and UK entry immigration at Paris / Brussels / Amsterdam / Rotterdam so you are considered to be legally in the UK already. There is no requirement to show identification or give your details in the UK if you are stopped unless you are suspected of a crime. So i stuggle to see the legal basis for doing passport checks a second time after you have already completed them and are legally through passport control already. So i wonder if they are optional and passengers could simply refuse to show their passport again?

You could always ask under what power the request is being made, and then judge whether you wish to comply based on their answer.

It's not unusual for border or police officials to ask for (photo) ID even when there is no legal requirement to show it (or even have it with you), Merseyside police do it at Birkenhead port all the time.

 

[station_road]

The Sangatte Protocol (that established frontier controls on the other sides of the Channel Tunnel) includes a provision that "supplementary frontier controls may exceptionally be carried out ... By officers of the State upon arrival in its own territory". I would be surprised if there wasn't the same clause included when the current juxtaposed controls agreement was put into law.

 

[nwales58]

It's not unusual for border or police officials to ask for (photo) ID even when there is no legal requirement to show it (or even have it with you), Merseyside police do it at Birkenhead port all the time.

Happened up to at least 1990 inbound from Northern Ireland and the Republic at GB airports. You walked past an official at a desk, LHR was a Special Branch chap allegedly. On the odd occasion I was asked for identification it was made clear this was using the powers under the Prevention of Terrorism acts. As those are pretty draconian it would be 'courageous' to start a debate. In those days a cheque guarantee card plus the air ticket seemed acceptable.

 

[Trainbike46]

Happened up to at least 1990 inbound from Northern Ireland and the Republic at GB airports. You walked past an official at a desk, LHR was a Special Branch chap allegedly. On the odd occasion I was asked for identification it was made clear this was using the powers under the Prevention of Terrorism acts. As those are pretty draconian it would be 'courageous' to start a debate. In those days a cheque guarantee card plus the air ticket seemed acceptable.

When I've asked them "under what power?", I was similarly told it was under a terrorism act (I think from the early 2000s). While I agree regarding those acts being draconian, the first time I got caught by them I didn't actually bring my formal ID from Belfast. Arriving in Birkenhead, the officer accepted my GB railcard, but on return to Belfast the officer at Birkenhead checking departing passengers wasn't willing to accept either my GB railcard, my Queen's University Belfast ID, or my bank card. When I pointed out I had no other ID on me, and that my passport was in Belfast, he then spent the next 10 minutes looking at my QUB ID very unhappily, before he decided to let me through, as far as I can tell mostly because he didn't really see any alternative.

I still think this is a waste of everyone's time, especially the police force, as there is no requirement to have any type of ID on you (though most people would have something informal at least).

 

[Starmill]

Passports are requested all the time at Dublin Airport for Common Travel Area arrivals which seems utterly absurd to me. I've been tempted in the past to respond that I don't have it with me, and don't need it, as I'm relying on my right as a British / Irish / Both citizen to travel without one. Obviously I didn't actually do so and I'm sure this would receive short shift. The Garda are often found doing drug checks and asking for IDs at the Port in Dublin but don't require passports that I've seen. Anyway not that comparable to extra-CTA travel.

 

[Trainbike46]

Passports are requested all the time at Dublin Airport for Common Travel Area arrivals which seems utterly absurd to me. I've been tempted in the past to respond that I don't have it with me and don't need it as I'm relying on my right as a British / Irish / Both citizen to travel without one. Obviously I didn't actually do so and I'm sure this would receive short shift. Anyway not that comparable to extra-CTA travel.

Generally, I would suggest that lying against police or border force is a bad idea. However, it is an absurd request for within CTA travel.

However, I still don't take my passport when travelling within the UK, whether going through Birkenhead port or not. There is no requirement for me to have it on me, so I'm not taking it.

Of course, when travelling with Eurostar, a passport (or similar form of formal ID) is generally required to cross the UK border, so you should still have it when arriving at St Pancras.

There's no harm to ask under what power a request is being made though.

 

[miami]

However, I still don't take my passport when travelling within the UK, whether going through Birkenhead port or not. There is no requirement for me to have it on me, so I'm not taking it.

When I got a ferry back from Belfast a couple of months ago I showed my work ID (an internationally recognised company). Of course I have many colleagues that have no right of travel to the UK who I believe have similar looking ID cards, I'm not sure what their goal was.

There's no harm to ask under what power a request is being made though.

I was stopped once on arrival after flying from Heathrow to Manchester demanding photo ID. At the time BA had no requirement for any photo ID for domestic flights. They would not tell me under what power I was stopped, would not tell me I was under arrest, and said that I wouldn't be allowed in the airport if I didn't show them ID. I said fine, please escort me out of the airport (as I was arriving).

Eventually they let me go with a copy of my scrumpled boarding pass.

I believe the only power they would have had on the London to Manchester flight would be under Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act, I believe there are additional laws in place for travel from Northern Ireland to Great Britain.

 

[signed]

Passports are requested all the time at Dublin Airport for Common Travel Area arrivals which seems utterly absurd to me. I've been tempted in the past to respond that I don't have it with me, and don't need it, as I'm relying on my right as a British / Irish / Both citizen to travel without one. Obviously I didn't actually do so and I'm sure this would receive short shift. The Garda are often found doing drug checks and asking for IDs at the Port in Dublin but don't require passports that I've seen. Anyway not that comparable to extra-CTA travel.

Dublin airport doesn't phyisically split arrivals, everybody goes through the same arrival control, that's the reason why CTA isn't differentiated. I very much doubt you really need a passport though