Eurostar clearances

[leshuttle]

Going back to the early 1990s when there were a few test runs of Eurostar to Manchester and Glasgow just wondered if there were any documented details online anywhere about these and photos. All without passengers presumably, were they one-offs and what lines were they cleared to run on including any diversionary routes?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Going back to the early 1990s when there were a few test runs of Eurostar to Manchester and Glasgow just wondered if there were any documented details online anywhere about these and photos. All without passengers presumably, were they one-offs and what lines were they cleared to run on including any diversionary routes?

I witnessed them quite often passing or stationary at Stockport and passing through Heaton Chapel on the fast lines, also saw them at speed usually southbound between Macclesfield and Cheadle Hulme back in the day.

 

[leshuttle]

Thought there might have been more on this out there but anyway.. Searched about a bit and found these:

Crewe

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/124888374@N03/23864906311
• https://www.flickr.com/photos/mlrail/24912808881
• https://www.flickr.com/photos/37190-dalzell/16098208160

Milton Keynes Central

• http://www.rail.co.uk/images/5909/original/1-southbound-eurostar-at-milton-keynes-phil-marsh.jpg
• https://www.flickr.com/photos/71625163@N02/27166659945

Manchester Piccadilly

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/sloopjonb/2767725832

Stockport

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/dps54131266/6254792968

Stafford

• https://www.flickr.com/photos/tim_marshall_7099/5548077827

Before the budget airlines I guess it might have had some economic justification. Would still have been quite a long journey had it somehow gone ahead with direct services. This would have been pre-High Speed 1 and pre-West Coast mainline modernisation took place.

 

[themiller]

I found this photo which I took at Crewe and I marked as being taken on 26/08/1997 at 14 27.

 

[Ianno87]

They weren't one-offs, they were pretty regular test runs around 1997/98.

Personally saw them on test at Stafford (1997), Stockport and Birmingham New Street (1998).

Normal routes of operation would have been to Manchester Picadilly via Crewe (both via Birmingham New Street and the Trent Valley), and to Glasgow Central via Edinburgh and the ECML (i.e. 3 dailway return services to/from Paris)

Would have then got to the Channel Tunnel pre-CTRL via the North, West and South London Lines, thence via the normal Eurostar route(s) through Kent.

Had they been running today, they would access HS1 via the various connections around St Pancras.

 

[tellytype]

The more interesting question is, will all the Pancras connections in time be used for this very type of service?

I must dig out the photos from GNERs White Rose press launch trip now...

 

[jopsuk]

Had they been running today, they would access HS1 via the various connections around St Pancras.

I'd expect had they been running that the connections to HS1 would have been different- as built any train from the ECML to HS1 would have to reverse in the platforms at St Pancras. From the WCML trains would I guess go via the former Primrose Hill?

 

[zn1]

recall seeing them on test at bletchley, normally heading back north after a run south, presumably on clearance and power testing

 

[Ianno87]

I'd expect had they been running that the connections to HS1 would have been different- as built any train from the ECML to HS1 would have to reverse in the platforms at St Pancras. From the WCML trains would I guess go via the former Primrose Hill?

WCML trains could in theory have been via Primrose Hill or via Hampstead Heath (presume they are/were gauged both ways?) and on the connections provided can either run directly onto HS1 or reverse in St Pancras.

Difficult to see, given the physical constraints around Belle Isle, how a direct ECML to HS1 connection would work without going via St Pancras.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'd expect had they been running that the connections to HS1 would have been different- as built any train from the ECML to HS1 would have to reverse in the platforms at St Pancras. From the WCML trains would I guess go via the former Primrose Hill?

The plan for the ECML trains was to reverse at St P.

Eurostars were gauged both via Primrose Hill and Hampstead. This was both for flexibility to HS1, but also as it was originally intended to run the empties from St P to North Pole, which can only be realistically accessed going via Hampstead. The increase in freight traffic and increase in passenger numbers on the NLL / WLL put paid to that, so Temple Mills was built.

 

[davewolves]

i remember them coming through willenhall (nr wolverhampton) at some silly hour of the morning as the sound woke me up at something like 1AM i was under the impression virgin was testing them to replace class 86's & 87's and the MK3 stock

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I was under the impression virgin was testing them to replace class 86's & 87's and the MK3 stock

The tests would have been connected with the never-used North of London proposals from through services between Paris and Manchester, Glasgow and a few intermediate stops.

 

[MotCO]

I assume that the guaging tests would be to ensure that the trains did not foul any platforms, but also that the trains could safely go through bends without hitting anything coming in the other direction? If so, how is this done?

Also, what happens if track is relaid or realigned due to any trackworks? Would the regauging tests need to be re-run?

(Apologies if naive questions. I am not associated with the railways and just interested in what happens in these situations.)

 

[lineclear]

I assume that the guaging tests would be to ensure that the trains did not foul any platforms, but also that the trains could safely go through bends without hitting anything coming in the other direction? If so, how is this done?

Also, what happens if track is relaid or realigned due to any trackworks? Would the regauging tests need to be re-run?

(Apologies if naive questions. I am not associated with the railways and just interested in what happens in these situations.)

Gauging (structures, passing and stepping) is carried out using software called ClearRoute. Track design requires gauging analysis as part of the design submission.

 

[MarkyT]

Although it was not one of my projects, I remember the company I was working for at the time conducted studies of signalling clearances at Birmingham New Street in the early 90s. The issue being investigated was not the clearance between trains on adjacent tracks or through structures, but a particular issue of endthrow in the pointwork of the tightly constrained throat junction layouts and the risk of a train indicating clear of a junction while it's nose was actually foul of other passing movements. Positioning of track circuit joints around junctions was particularly critical because the overhang of the front of the cl.373 nose beyond the first axle is unusually large. I recall there were a handful of locations around the station where joints needed to move, but I don't know if the work was ever carried out or if any of the trains ever went to New Street on test.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Gauging (structures, passing and stepping) is carried out using software called ClearRoute. Track design requires gauging analysis as part of the design submission.

How times change!

The gauging train for the class 158 at Birmingham New Street was 156 with polystyrene blocks stuck to the side to replicate the 158 profile.

The train had to proceed through every platform at walking pace whilst 2 engineers held tape measures between the polystyrene and the platform and shouted figures to a clipboard holding assistant.