Eurostar lifts 'cap' on passengers at St Pancras

[30907]

https://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/razeni.php?zeme=EIL&kategorie=ES&rok=2019 thou make sure you note some run some days but not others

I made that a core service of 16tpd to Paris, though I am not sure Vagonweb picked up all the seasonal variations (understandably!).

 

[AdamWW]

I made that a core service of 16tpd to Paris, though I am not sure Vagonweb picked up all the seasonal variations (understandably!).

OK I just had a look at the Summer 2018 European Rail Timetable (Thomas Cook as was) and also get 16 mid-week services from London to Paris.
There are lots of variations depending on the day of week and some odd dates that are difference (holidays maybe?) - including a train that runs (one direction only) on 17th June only.

Perhaps they are back up to "normal" mid-week but unable to accommodate more on busy days?

 

[Birkonian]

Are they actually doing that? I will confess I've not travelled that much so perhaps the lack of stamps hasn't been enough to raise questions in their minds but I've been to twice France this year and on neither occasion did they do anything other than flick through my passport to the next available blank page for the stamp.

I travelled from Brussels to London on Monday. It took 5 minutes from scanning my ticket to sitting in the departure longe. The Belgian customs chap didn't look at the page of my passport with name and photo. He just found a suitable space to stamp. I've never had the stamps counted.

 

[Krokodil]

It took 5 minutes from scanning my ticket to sitting in the departure longe.

In my experience the process itself has always been quick. The number of manned booths has been the issue for me.

 

[S-Car-Go]

From memory, the most daily Eurostar departures from London I ever saw was 31, maybe 32. Harking back to 2012 and the London Olympics, Eurostar ran extra trains in anticipation of big demand (that didn't really materialise). 20 to Paris 10 to Brussels, 1 to Disneyland, and 1 to Avignon. Also there was 1 year where 2 trains to Disneyland ran, such was the demand back then.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Indeed. You could purchase:
• Through fares from about 100 UK stations.
• Eurostar + reserved Thalys fares to the Netherlands and Germany.
• Eurostar + Any Dutch station.
• Eurostar + Any German station (with different fares according to distance).

And ticket offices that actually open, to purchase from knowledgeable staff.

Why did the through fares end?

 

[paul1609]

Why did the through fares end?

Because despite the best efforts of Eurostars sales staff, sales of them never reached a level where they were a significant level. When the time came to replace the ticketing system the extra expense and complexity to accomodate the through fares couldnt be justified.

 

[riceuten]

It's problems with getting the ESS ready that are the cause of the ETIAS delay. Furthermore this is actually making the border congestion worse as the French border guards have to enforce the 90 in 180 days rule by manually counting the dates on passport stamps, rather than having the ESS computer automatically do it.

I saw an English woman recently turned away at French immigration at Limoges Airport because she had exceeded this. And yes, the border guard was manually determining it, using a calculator !

 

[Chester1]

I saw an English woman recently turned away at French immigration at Limoges Airport because she had exceeded this. And yes, the border guard was manually determining it, using a calculator !

Its likely most officers skim through and only bother to count if the recent numbers look high. Limoges and similar airports are probably more careful because British second home owners will be higher risk of being overstayers. EES will be a huge step forward and should have been in place at least a decade ago. The US launched ESTA in 2007!

 

[riceuten]

Its likely most officers skim through and only bother to count if the recent numbers look high. Limoges and similar airports are probably more careful because British second home owners will be higher risk of being overstayers. EES will be a huge step forward and should have been in place at least a decade ago. The US launched ESTA in 2007!

As regards Limoges, I think you are almost certainly right, as the officers there seemed to take an inordinate amount of time totting up the days - with good reason. There were a number of people complaining about this (along the lines of "This isn't the Brexit I voted for) - oh, the irony.

As regards Eurostar, I've never really understood why there is a UK passport check by UK Border Agency staff, whilst this doesn't happen at airports (though I recognise that the Daily Mail and Express have long campaigned for people to be "counted out" of the UK) - where passports are checked by airline staff (maybe I've answered by own question there - check in staff are few and far between).

The only time I have had my passport checked leaving a country by border guards (by air) was Switzerland, a country I had entered without control by train from Germany a week previously! The Easyjet staff had already checked the passports.

 

[Gaelan]

As regards Eurostar, I've never really understood why there is a UK passport check by UK Border Agency staff, whilst this doesn't happen at airports (though I recognise that the Daily Mail and Express have long campaigned for people to be "counted out" of the UK) - where passports are checked by airline staff (maybe I've answered by own question there - check in staff are few and far between).

I suppose the argument is that if you're going to do departure checks, you may as well have them be the "real deal" and save a check on entry - and the problems of station layout are the same either way.

 

[Teebs]

As regards Limoges, I think you are almost certainly right, as the officers there seemed to take an inordinate amount of time totting up the days - with good reason. There were a number of people complaining about this (along the lines of "This isn't the Brexit I voted for) - oh, the irony.

As regards Eurostar, I've never really understood why there is a UK passport check by UK Border Agency staff, whilst this doesn't happen at airports (though I recognise that the Daily Mail and Express have long campaigned for people to be "counted out" of the UK) - where passports are checked by airline staff (maybe I've answered by own question there - check in staff are few and far between).

The only time I have had my passport checked leaving a country by border guards (by air) was Switzerland, a country I had entered without control by train from Germany a week previously! The Easyjet staff had already checked the passports.

I think you did pretty much answer your own question, but airlines get your passport data at check-in and share it with the government, while as far as I can see Eurostar don't. So that'll be the difference. I think the ferry operators also take your passport details.

In terms of exit checks, I think the whole Schengen Zone does this. I don't fly often, but this year coming out of Croatia there were definitely exit controls at the airport and less recently I can remember nearly missing a flight at Frankfurt because of how slow the non-EU queue was (I'm an EU citizen, but my wife isn't).

 

[RT4038]

As regards Eurostar, I've never really understood why there is a UK passport check by UK Border Agency staff, whilst this doesn't happen at airports (though I recognise that the Daily Mail and Express have long campaigned for people to be "counted out" of the UK) - where passports are checked by airline staff (maybe I've answered by own question there - check in staff are few and far between).

UK Border Agency staff don't do passport checks on departure from UK on Eurostar - the check (or more information gathering) is done by Eurostar staff/contractor.

 

[island]

As regards Eurostar, I've never really understood why there is a UK passport check by UK Border Agency staff, whilst this doesn't happen at airports (though I recognise that the Daily Mail and Express have long campaigned for people to be "counted out" of the UK) - where passports are checked by airline staff (maybe I've answered by own question there - check in staff are few and far between).

UK Border Agency staff don't do passport checks on departure from UK on Eurostar - the check (or more information gathering) is done by Eurostar staff/contractor.

Indeed. This data gathering is performed on Eurostar in place of requiring passport details to be keyed online or scanned at check-in when flying. The staff are not UK Border Agency (which does not in any event exist, having been replaced over 10 years ago by UK Border Force), they are Mitie contractors working on behalf of Eurostar.

 

[nwales58]

As regards Eurostar, I've never really understood why there is a UK passport check by UK Border Agency staff, whilst this doesn't happen at airports ...

The legal framework around the tunnel is *unique*. Although aviation is a bunch of international treaties they do not impinge on frontier controls as far as I can think.

The tunnel and services through it can only work within the bilateral treaty with France (Canterbury) which explicily states that frontier controls are agreed in a protocol, Sangatte in this case. If either HMG or France want to change anything it needs a new agreement, which has happened several times including the juxtaposed control agreements.

Both governments have the same security mindset, so I do not know why they have not imposed advance passenger information on the tunnel, although the shuttle operations would fight against it unless imposed on the ferries too.

Worth adding, my limited understanding of maritime law is that anything can operate anywhere as long as the vessel is safe and safe to carry what it is carrying. If that is right, it would take a new bilateral with France or whoever to force advance passenger information to be collected whereas with aviation HMG can require it as a condition of carrying passengers here. Of course the Le Touquet agreements enabled juxtaposed controls on all modes.

Does anyone know more about a) the legal side of this and b) whether the governments have tried to force API on cross-channel?

 

[RT4038]

The legal framework around the tunnel is *unique*. Although aviation is a bunch of international treaties they do not impinge on frontier controls as far as I can think.

The tunnel and services through it can only work within the bilateral treaty with France (Canterbury) which explicily states that frontier controls are agreed in a protocol, Sangatte in this case. If either HMG or France want to change anything it needs a new agreement, which has happened several times including the juxtaposed control agreements.

Both governments have the same security mindset, so I do not know why they have not imposed advance passenger information on the tunnel, although the shuttle operations would fight against it unless imposed on the ferries too.

Worth adding, my limited understanding of maritime law is that anything can operate anywhere as long as the vessel is safe and safe to carry what it is carrying. If that is right, it would take a new bilateral with France or whoever to force advance passenger information to be collected whereas with aviation HMG can require it as a condition of carrying passengers here. Of course the Le Touquet agreements enabled juxtaposed controls on all modes.

Does anyone know more about a) the legal side of this and b) whether the governments have tried to force API on cross-channel?

I am not sure that UK Govt. is particularly concerned as to how the departing passport information is collected, merely that it is. The airlines are much more concerned about the name on the ticket being the passenger actually travelling than the other operators are. The information is not being collected with a view to preventing individuals leaving as such.

 

[cool110]

Does anyone know more about a) the legal side of this and b) whether the governments have tried to force API on cross-channel?

For B they have done for LeShuttle, the check-in barrier won't open without API being completed.