Euston overcrowding

[SCDR_WMR]

If that’s part of the crowd control plan to keep that area clear then at least it’s being followed - even if it’s brash.

I’m not defending their behaviour entirely, but it is amazing how when there is serious disruption people do not realise how bad it is and sometimes you have to resort to firm and clear announcements as people do not listen and keep trying to pile in. People asking when the next train is and rushing in to catch the 1602 going when the station is clearly closed to everyone at 1600.

Of course this could be better mitigated with information screens showing alternative routes and an announcement on a 5 min loop.

Oh absolutely. In a way it was nice to see proactive crowd control, just wasn't entirely done in the best way especially as they essentially moved the queue of people for the LNWR information desk which is situated in that area.

There were also manual announcements done roughly every 10 minutes, and when the departure screens turned back on there were more announcements regarding waiting for services and platforms to be called as the information on the screen may not be correct/show earlier services.

 

[Omnishambles]

Wednesday was truly horrendous. Having worked there and passed through frequently over the years I can’t recall anything as bad. New departure screens have made things worse I believe as everyone now has the opportunity to gather at the the tops of ramps blocking any access to platforms (although for a long time nothing showed and all platforms were closed) and retail units. Considering the lines opened at 1540 the station closed again at around 1730 as both operators struggled badly (again) with recovery. Don’t know about staffing levels these days but seemed to be a distinct lack of presence, would have though some support would have come from AWC’s management assuming still in situ in Hardwicke House or West Colonnade ??

 

[185]

Considering the underlying cause of the chaos at Euston, there have been a high number of incidents at Bushey Railway Station, each blocking the WCML for 4-5 hours. Short of closing all or some of the station's WCML line platforms, I wonder what could be done to mitigate the problems at Bushey?

Do remember, Euston station is perfectly safe (Hendy).

 

[Dr Hoo]

Wednesday was truly horrendous. Having worked there and passed through frequently over the years I can’t recall anything as bad. New departure screens have made things worse I believe as everyone now has the opportunity to gather at the the tops of ramps blocking any access to platforms (although for a long time nothing showed and all platforms were closed) and retail units. Considering the lines opened at 1540 the station closed again at around 1730 as both operators struggled badly (again) with recovery. Don’t know about staffing levels these days but seemed to be a distinct lack of presence, would have though some support would have come from AWC’s management assuming still in situ in Hardwicke House or West Colonnade ??

Can you clarify what you mean here? To the extent that the concourse is an open area (without barriers) ‘everyone’ has always had the opportunity to stand anywhere. I realise that everybody’s eyesight is different (with individual varifocal prescriptions where applicable) but can’t see how the optimum viewing angle for the new screens is now the top of the ramps. (I have previously said and am happy to repeat my minority view that the overall provision and configuration of the new screens, inside and outside, is a great improvement.) Judging by the way that many people are looking at their phone screens with various apps that show train movements in real time anyway, they can clearly stand ‘anywhere’, usually totally oblivious to anyone else, markings saying ‘Keep Clear’ and so on.
On the question of the supposed benefits of an Avanti management ‘presence’ can I ask what you expect this to achieve, especially at a Network Rail managed station? Very early on in my career as a mere supervisor on the front line I was dealing with a line blockage and short notice RRBs had been rustled up to cover. The Area Manager, who happened to be in the area in his car decided to commandeer my office to ‘handle communications’. (This was in the days before radios and mobile phones.) He managed to gain the false impression that the ‘incident’ was now over although there had in fact been two distinct and overlapping incidents in progress. I had the chance to look round the office door. “Right, I’ve stood the buses down. That will help the budget”, he chirped. “But the line’s still blocked, Guv.” “Oh!”
I always carried that lesson with me in my later career. Even when quite senior you never just ‘take over’ from the resident staff. Assist in a clearly defined capacity - fair enough but don’t just barge in.

 

[Wolfie]

Considering the underlying cause of the chaos at Euston, there have been a high number of incidents at Bushey Railway Station, each blocking the WCML for 4-5 hours. Short of closing all or some of the station's WCML line platforms, I wonder what could be done to mitigate the problems at Bushey?

Do remember, Euston station is perfectly safe (Hendy).

I went through Euston this morning. Supposedly operating normally but still semi-chaos. You only need a couple of people stopping to greet friends slap bang in the main circulation.

I've been using Euston regularly since the early 80s and never seen it as bad as it is since the utterly crap new information screens went in.

 

[HSTEd]

We now have a column in the Guardian about Euston.

Euston, to misquote the misquotation of Apollo 13’s message to mission control, has a problem. It is ill-designed, overcrowded and fraught with passenger frustrations. More long-term, no one yet knows whether it is going to be the London terminus of HS2, as was originally planned.

Last week, my esteemed Guardian colleague Barney Ronay published a post on X that struck a chord with thousands of users of the station.

He described it as “easily the worst main station in Western Europe” and compared the experience of waiting for delayed trains and being force-fed advertising on the giant screens that now dominate the station to “being taken away to be machine gunned in the woods by various mobile phone and soft drinks companies”.

 

[Harpo]

What’s your alternative strategy for keeping areas clear so that alighting/ incoming passengers can clear the platforms in the short

Whatever my alternative strategy might be, I can't ever envisage that I would propose 'shout at people' as part of the control measures.

If you make staff act aggressively towards customers in this way, you are setting them up to be treated without respect.

 

[Omnishambles]

Can you clarify what you mean here? To the extent that the concourse is an open area (without barriers) ‘everyone’ has always had the opportunity to stand anywhere. I realise that everybody’s eyesight is different (with individual varifocal prescriptions where applicable) but can’t see how the optimum viewing angle for the new screens is now the top of the ramps. (I have previously said and am happy to repeat my minority view that the overall provision and configuration of the new screens, inside and outside, is a great improvement.) Judging by the way that many people are looking at their phone screens with various apps that show train movements in real time anyway, they can clearly stand ‘anywhere’, usually totally oblivious to anyone else, markings saying ‘Keep Clear’ and so on.
On the question of the supposed benefits of an Avanti management ‘presence’ can I ask what you expect this to achieve, especially at a Network Rail managed station? Very early on in my career as a mere supervisor on the front line I was dealing with a line blockage and short notice RRBs had been rustled up to cover. The Area Manager, who happened to be in the area in his car decided to commandeer my office to ‘handle communications’. (This was in the days before radios and mobile phones.) He managed to gain the false impression that the ‘incident’ was now over although there had in fact been two distinct and overlapping incidents in progress. I had the chance to look round the office door. “Right, I’ve stood the buses down. That will help the budget”, he chirped. “But the line’s still blocked, Guv.” “Oh!”
I always carried that lesson with me in my later career. Even when quite senior you never just ‘take over’ from the resident staff. Assist in a clearly defined capacity - fair enough but don’t just barge in.

For siting of the boards, I was looking at the pov that there was previously absolutely no chance of a view from the top of the ramps whereas now there is a perception that it maybe best to stand with a view of the ‘side’ on board from for instance Burger King or top of 4-7. Just a view having swam through the sea of people Wednesday night. As for the benefits of a ‘presence’ for the general passenger they don’t care who’s station it is, all they want is some accurate as possible comms so the more support you can provide you should. This should be standard given the length of the event and amount of passengers involved, indeed was a time it was in the days of CATS teams, which kinda did kinda didn’t take off but the thought was there. Totally agree on anyone coming in and ‘taking over’ but I would always have gladly accepted an extra set of hands and a mouth to try and answer passenger queries during times like Wednesday

 

[HSTEd]

Perhaps they should place the information boards on the ceiling.

I guess then everyone could see them, although they might have to crane their necks a bit!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

For siting of the boards, I was looking at the pov that there was previously absolutely no chance of a view from the trampoline whereas now there is a perception that it maybe best to stand with a view of the ‘side’ on board from for instance Burger King or top of 4-7. Just a view having swam through the sea of people Wednesday night. As for the benefits of a ‘presence’ for the general passenger they don’t care who’s station it is, all they want is some accurate as possible comms so the more support you can provide you should. This should be standard given the length of the event and amount of passengers involved, indeed was a time it was in the days of CATS teams, which kinda did kinda didn’t take off but the thought was there. Totally agree on anyone coming in and ‘taking over’ but I would always have gladly accepted an extra set of hands and a mouth to try and answer passenger queries during times like Wednesday

What happened on Wednesday?

 

[Omnishambles]

Fatality at Bushey lunchtime which became scene of crime. No movement for 2-3hrs at all then the inevitable impossible recovery thereafter. Coupled with weather issues north of Preston…all in all not the best day

 

[Tester]

Fatality at Bushey lunchtime which became scene of crime. No movement for 2-3hrs at all then the inevitable impossible recovery thereafter. Coupled with weather issues north of Preston…all in all not the best day

That was Thursday.

 

[Omnishambles]

That was Thursday.

. Sorry, have got my days all mixed up this week (I blame jet lag!) of course it was Thursday

 

[Tester]

. Sorry, have got my days all mixed up this week (I blame jet lag!) of course it was Thursday

Easily done!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I wonder what could be done to mitigate the problems at Bushey?

Unlike places like Harrow and Wealdstone, Bushey doesn't have the fast line platform fenced off. It's also not a particularly wide platform.

A fence would make a huge difference.

 

[cslusarc]

Do trains stop at Bushey on the Fast Lines?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do trains stop at Bushey on the Fast Lines?

Unless mistaken, nothing currently seems to call at platforms 3 or 4 at Bushey, which are adjacent to the fast line tracks at the station.

 

[Class15]

Unless mistaken, nothing currently seems to call at platforms 3 or 4 at Bushey, which are adjacent to the fast line tracks at the station.

They do when there is engineering work on the slows!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Unlike places like Harrow and Wealdstone, Bushey doesn't have the fast line platform fenced off. It's also not a particularly wide platform.

A fence would make a huge difference.

There's definitely a gate to access the Down Fast due to it only accommodating a 4 car as we can't dispatch unless it's closed. Up fast should have the sliding gates that pretty much all the stations have south of MKC.

 

[Tester]

Unless mistaken, nothing currently seems to call at platforms 3 or 4 at Bushey, which are adjacent to the fast line tracks at the station.

Nothing is booked to call on the fast lines, but the platforms are used when the slow lines are blocked.

There's definitely a gate to access the Down Fast due to it only accommodating a 4 car as we can't dispatch unless it's closed. Up fast should have the sliding gates that pretty much all the stations have south of MKC.

This is indeed correct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What’s your alternative strategy for keeping areas clear so that alighting/ incoming passengers can clear the platforms in the short term?

I don't know, but shouting doesn't work either. People can't hear what is being shouted and it simply makes people angry and frustrated - staff and passengers alike.

One perhaps shouldn't blow whistles at passengers from Reading, or wherever it was, but shouting isn't a solution either.

Nothing is booked to call on the fast lines, but the platforms are used when the slow lines are blocked.

And when they are, the stop at Bushey becomes set down only, so people aren't on that platform while there is no train there. Though one does wonder if a better arrangement might be possible with electronic control of the gate.

 

[185]

A fence would make a huge difference.

Perhaps with the fast line fenced off from public view and both FL platforms edges removed, if anything else did happen there, at least one side would still be usable when the other isn't. The most recent incident was on the slow line.

 

[Turtle]

Perhaps with the fast line fenced off from public view and both FL platforms edges removed, if anything else did happen there, at least one side would still be usable when the other isn't. The most recent incident was on the slow line.

On a general point here, I've noticed an article in today's Observer discussing Euston as London's worst rail terminus. It looks like the word is continuing to spread.

 

[Peter0124]

Not sure if this is appropriate to ask given the circumstances but does anyone know what particular service was involved in the Bushey incident a few days ago? Not the unit number, just the service. Thanks.

 

[takno]

On a general point here, I've noticed an article in today's Observer discussing Euston as London's worst rail terminus. It looks like the word is continuing to spread.

That's the article from the Guardian website which was shared a few posts up. I think it was a pretty good article, focusing on it as a comfort and operational difficulty issue rather than a safety one, and explaining why there are no quick fixes.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Not sure if this is appropriate to ask given the circumstances but does anyone know what particular service was involved in the Bushey incident a few days ago? Not the unit number, just the service. Thanks.

Can't remember the head code but it was the Tring stopper I believe

 

[Tester]

And when they are, the stop at Bushey becomes set down only, so people aren't on that platform while there is no train there. Though one does wonder if a better arrangement might be possible with electronic control of the gate.

That is correct for the down fast, but the up fast is entirely open.

 

[norbitonflyer]

One perhaps shouldn't blow whistles at passengers from Reading, or wherever it was,

The sayinmg was allegedly said to gherry Feinnes by a dispatcher at Reading, about passengers from Newbury (who were being dilatory about changing to a London-bound train).

 

[Skie]

Experienced some new idiocy there yesterday.

Platform of a slightly late departure is announced via the tannoy, so people rush to the platform (I was already at the gate thanks to RTT). But the platform signs still say "closed" and lone Avanti worker refuses to let people through until the sign changes. 2 minutes later the ramp is crammed full of people waiting for the display to change, which it eventually does but now there is a mad rush to board with a significantly larger crowd packed into the same narrow and sloping space.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Experienced some new idiocy there yesterday.

Platform of a slightly late departure is announced via the tannoy, so people rush to the platform (I was already at the gate thanks to RTT). But the platform signs still say "closed" and lone Avanti worker refuses to let people through until the sign changes. 2 minutes later the ramp is crammed full of people waiting for the display to change, which it eventually does but now there is a mad rush to board with a significantly larger crowd packed into the same narrow and sloping space.

So the Platform Closed ‘crosses’ are ‘interlocked’ with the visual display on the indicators but not the ‘press to talk’ Tannoy? Are the two means of communication operated by different people/ organisations?