Even more announcements on SWR

[iphone76]

Can you have a word with your Elizabeth Line colleagues about "Oyster not valid beyond West Drayton" messages when the train is going to Heathrow, wholly within its validity.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe they got rid of those announcements for Heathrow bound services a few months ago. (I only drive the trains and mute the PIS system in the cab for the very reasons mentioned above).

 

[Snow1964]

And here we go again...

Of course the rail industry can win; simply reduce announcements to just things the average passenger needs to know (where the train's going and where it's stopping on the way) and get rid of the rest!

Exactly, people switch off if there are too many.

I wouldn't be surprised if you asked somebody what last announcement said, and they wouldn't know, because they blanked it as unnecessary background noise.

 

[Meerkat]

You don't seriously think that someone who chucks litter on the seats or the floor will take any notice of the auto announcements?

It removes the (ludicrous) defence that they didn’t know they weren’t supposed to, and adds peer group pressure - the culprits will feel the ‘they mean you!’ glares.
Sure the scratters won’t care but a lot of the culprits are the thoughtless and not intentionally antisocial.

 

[The exile]

Off on a tangent - at Bath an irritating voice reminds you to hold the handrail and not use mobile phones on the stairs every time someone goes past a trigger point. Meanwhile, at Bristol Parkway brand new advertising screens have been installed where only people climbing the stairs can see them (and have their attention drawn from safety while descending the stairs).

 

[ls2270]

Off on a tangent - at Bath an irritating voice reminds you to hold the handrail and not use mobile phones on the stairs every time someone goes past a trigger point. Meanwhile, at Bristol Parkway brand new advertising screens have been installed where only people climbing the stairs can see them (and have their attention drawn from safety while descending the stairs).

Maidenhead has a similar annoying announcement in the subway!

 

[Turtle]

Two new ones to add to the plethora of announcements that SWR seem to think we need to hear.
'Please keep your feet off the seats' and
'Please use the litter bins provided'.

How long will it be until we get one in the toilets saying,
'Please make sure you flush the toilet after use'.

I just want some peace and quiet when I board one of your trains SWR!

I wouldn't object to "keep your feet off the seats".

 

[Revilo]

You don't seriously think that someone who chucks litter on the seats or the floor will take any notice of the auto announcements?

Exactly right. The announcements are just virtue signally so they can tick a box and say ‘we’ve taken action’ about eg littering.

 

[Taunton]

Maidenhead has a similar annoying announcement in the subway!

I think GWR bought a job lot of these auto-triggered announcements. Slough has the same, the new footbridge in particular has them top and bottom of each stairs, in the spirit of equality half male voice, half female. Each overlaps the next and the separate trigger points mean it's just an un-coordinated babble. It's like something put together by primary school children.

 

[saismee]

Massive annoyance for me is auto announcers does its job then guards repeating exactly the same information.

...or cutting off the auto-announcement to announce the same thing more quickly, to then have the automatic announcement repeat the end of sentence it had already begun.
My personal favourite is the "BUM!" announcement on GA. Completely silent, just taking up the PIS screen for a little bit of time during a journey to remind people to keep their feet of the seats. Doesn't really stop them though.

 

[stadler]

SWR are awful now. The amount of announcements has gotten ridiculous. Especially since they switched last year from the excellent quality Celia Drummond announcements to the lower quality Elinor Hamilton announcements it has gotten worse and they have added tons of new messages. I use SWR a lot and you are bombarded with useless annoying messages all throughout your journey. There is the usual see it say it sorted one. There is one telling you that any abusive behaviour to staff will be reported to police. There is one about litter. There is one about feet on seats. There is one about cctv in operation. There is one telling you not to leave anything unattended. There is one about penalty fares. The amount of useless unnecessary annoying automated announcements on SWR has gotten ridiculous. I find Southern to be more pleasant these days as at least they have far less of these excessive announcements.

Whatever happened to Grant Shapps telling us a while ago that all these annoying announcements were getting removed. That plan seems to have just went out the window. In fact since then the amount of useless annoying announcements on the railway has increased. Nothing the government says ever happens.

The only automated announcements we need are ones simply telling us the destination of the train and the calling pattern of the train. Also announcements telling us the next station and approaching station and details about any short platforms. We do not need anything other than this. This is the simplest thing to solve.

The thing that also annoys me so much with SWR is that they have so many guards who just repeat what the automated announcements say. The automated announcements will announce the calling pattern and destination and then a minute later the guard will come on the PA and just repeat it and tell us the destination and calling pattern all over again. It is ridiculous. I have even heard some SWR guards repeat various safety announcements that the automated announcements said a few minutes before. What is the point of having automated announcements if the guard is just going to repeat everything. The only time that a guard should come on the PA and make announcements is if the automated announcements are broken or if there is some disruption or alteration or important message to inform people of. No other TOC is as bad as this. Go on Southern and you very rarely hear their guards and obs repeat what the automated announcements say. SWR really also need to crackdown on their guards making too many announcements.

 

[43066]

And here we go again...

Of course the rail industry can win; simply reduce announcements to just things the average passenger needs to know (where the train's going and where it's stopping on the way) and get rid of the rest!

But, by that logic, the “average” passenger isn’t partially sighted or blind. So we could dispense with announcements regarding which station is next?

Why is it than whether there’s a thread about assistance failures there’s huge amounts of righteous indignation, yet people also want to dispense with PRM required announcements just because they personally don’t like them.

Exactly, people switch off if there are too many.

I wouldn't be surprised if you asked somebody what last announcement said, and they wouldn't know, because they blanked it as unnecessary background noise.

Is there any evidence anyone can point to of this being an issue for the wider travelling public? For example do people regularly criticise the railway for having too many announcements in passenger surveys?

Some people seem to be arguing that they find announcements irritating, yet others are suggesting that people simply blank them out as background noise and no longer notice them. Surely both can’t be true!?

 

[pompeyfan]

SWR guards are monitored and assessed. They’re expected to make manual welcome announcements after every major or interchange station, and if they don’t they’ll get written up. From memory the script includes drawing attention to safety and security notices, the calling pattern and short platforms.

I’m pretty sure the auto announcements for feet on seats and litter is a manually triggered message as opposed to being built into the auto messages.

Personally the auto announcements don’t bother me, but some of the guards come off script in an attempt to be funny and that comes across a bit cringy at times.

 

[DelW]

Speaking as train crew (not SWR), I have noticed the amount of litter left on late evening services and the number of passengers that think it’s acceptable to put their clodhoppers on the seats. Generally, I don’t tend to overdo the announcements, but on a recent late night service out of London I thought I’d add in a pre-departure announcement about litter and feet. Throughout the journey I noticed a lot less feet on seats and later in the journey I noticed a marked reduction in the amount of litter left hanging around. Maybe the announcement worked!!
One thing I have noticed though, is that on board bins never seem to be big enough - either for volume or the width of the opening. One empty Costa cup makes the bin look full!

It might be worth stating where the bins are located, too* - they're not always obvious, and they can be in different locations on different stock. Sometimes I've taken my wrappings with me when leaving my seat, only to not be able to find a bin (or only a full one), meaning I'm left carrying them around my arrival station looking for a bin for them there. That may be a factor in passengers leaving their rubbish on tables instead.

(* I realise this lengthens the announcement )

 

[Taunton]

But, by that logic, the “average” passenger isn’t partially sighted or blind. So we could dispense with announcements regarding which station is next?

Why is it than whether there’s a thread about assistance failures there’s huge amounts of righteous indignation, yet people also want to dispense with PRM required announcements just because they personally don’t like them.

I very much doubt it's people who need assistance are those who have to be told to keep feet off seats ...

 

[Horizon22]

And here we go again...

Of course the rail industry can win; simply reduce announcements to just things the average passenger needs to know (where the train's going and where it's stopping on the way) and get rid of the rest!

Well it can’t because people make complaints about behaviours and people want announcements. In fact there’s very few complaints about the number of announcements which tends to be an enthusiast only concern.

One way of dealing with it could be. “Please respect your fellow passengers and don’t do [insert X, Y, Z*]”. This could bundle some announcements into one.

I would personally agree with you but I am a seasoned traveller and know what I’m doing. If you think about what is essential it already adds up: security/safety (mandated), engineering works, disruption (as required). Perhaps something about ticketing/revenue also. Then there’s other safety related things, as required.

Announcements are normally in reaction to some sort of behaviour that management would like reduced.

* This could be something like “…and please keep your feet off the seats, dispose of your litter in bins provided or take it with you, and please keep noise to a minimum or use headphones on your personal device”

 

[DelW]

Well it can’t because people make complaints about behaviours and people want announcements. In fact there’s very few complaints about the number of announcements which tends to be an enthusiast only concern.

I honestly think that most passengers completely ignore them - the level of conversation barely drops during announcements.

I remember a trip on LNR (might even have been LM) on a Euston to Birmingham train which was running late and was instead being terminated at Northampton. The guard made several manual announcements about this, which I struggled to hear over the hubbub. Sure enough when we reached Northampton and were ordered to get off the train, most passengers just looked baffled, having not listened to any of them.

Last year, travelling from Exeter towards Waterloo on SWR, the stopping pattern was changed en route to omit Woking. The guard walked through the train, asking if anyone was going to Woking, and telling those who were that they'd need to change at Basingstoke onto the following train. The guard evidently didn't trust PA announcements to be adequate, presumably from past experience. Full marks to him for doing an effective job though.

 

[fandroid]

The one I love most, as a regular SWR customer, is the customer-friendly welcoming (NOT!) message threatening me with £100 penalties and prosecution almost as soon as I get on the train. My brain has almost entirely switched out the See it, Say it, Sorted message now having heard it almost 1000 times. Although the old cells do pick up the subtle regional variations in that message. Filed away for my planned history of noise pollution on public transport.

I confess I haven't yet heard the litter & shoes message.

 

[1000 rounders]

Yet people get annoyed by certain behaviours - indeed we have multi-page threads on it. Train crew cannot be everywhere at once so something has to give. Sure there’s a point at which the level of announcements means that individually each one has less impact, but to prevent behaviours people need to reminded.

And that’s all well and good saying “well this should be common sense and decency” but the rail industry can’t sort out societal and cultural problems!

This is one area the railway industry cannot really win.



Exactly.



I’d hate to say it but, better train etiquette? And really that goes into better social etiquette, full stop.

This is correct, if people behaved better, you would get fewer announcements.

 

[Bikeman78]

Which train were you on? (Specifically, the type of unit. I don’t want your journey details, feel free to keep those private! ). I don’t remember these being part of the scheduled automated announcements, they’re only on the system so that train crew can fire them off as requests.

I'm inclined to agree. I haven't heard much other than destination info on SWR recently. I did go on one train that went through about 10 random announcements so probably a system malfunction or the guard was bored.

I only travel by train about a dozen times a year, but it's mostly in class 159s from Whitchurch, and on my last trip in February I really didn't think the announcements were excessive. If I needed to use a lift at a station I'd be glad to know whether the lifts there were working. Some people who leave litter on the tables may take it to a bin if they're reminded, though others won't, and the ones who put their feet on seats are probably less likely to take any notice about being asked not to. But I think the announcement is still worthwhile. Having automated announcements plus those from the guard may be an issue: the automated ones are usually clearer, but hearing something from the guard confirms that he is taking an interest.

The trouble with the lift announcements is that some always seem to be broken, e.g at Clapham Junction. Which renders the information rather pointless.

SWR guards are monitored and assessed. They’re expected to make manual welcome announcements after every major or interchange station, and if they don’t they’ll get written up. From memory the script includes drawing attention to safety and security notices, the calling pattern and short platforms.

The question is, why are guards required to do that? Drivers on most DOO trains don't but the passengers cope. If the guard is required to make announcements, what purpose does the automatic system serve?

 

[ivorytoast28]

Can you have a word with your Elizabeth Line colleagues about "Oyster not valid beyond West Drayton" messages when the train is going to Heathrow, wholly within its validity.

And worse yet Thameslink's latest "Contactless and Oyster only are valid on specific routes and certain station"... Makes it sound like you can't use paper tickets on first hearing

 

[Lewisham2221]

By the same virtue, perhaps the requirement for "Penalty Fares" and other posters/signage at stations should be done away with due to the fact that they create visual clutter that nobody pays any attention to anyway?

 

[setdown]

I have even heard some SWR guards repeat various safety announcements that the automated announcements said a few minutes before. What is the point of having automated announcements if the guard is just going to repeat everything. The only time that a guard should come on the PA and make announcements is if the automated announcements are broken or if there is some disruption or alteration or important message to inform people of. No other TOC is as bad as this. Go on Southern and you very rarely hear their guards and obs repeat what the automated announcements say. SWR really also need to crackdown on their guards making too many announcements.

This, this, a million times this!

If you regularly travel on another TOC, you will eventually tune all the announcements out.

If you don't travel on SWR Class 444 trains with some regularity, you won't be able to appreciate that on these services, this tuning-out is impossible. The auto-announcements are an acceptable volume, but manual guard announcements are routinely 85 decibels plus. The manual announcements will often take almost two minutes each time, as well. After every stop yesterday, the guard announced, at over 85 decibel volume:

- Destination (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- Calling Points (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- Next Stop (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- First class locations
- Quiet coach locations ("please keep noise down here"- the irony!)
- Safety notices are located in every coach (so they're everywhere then- does this need to be said?)
- If you see something unusual... (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- Where the guard is located (potentially useful to be fair; only say this and let the auto-announcements cover everything else?)

The journeys are otherwise pleasant. This constant barraging of loud messaging really is a step-above what is experienced elsewhere.

(As an aside- I've never noticed passengers elsewhere muttering "shut up"(*) during announcements, apart from on SWR).

* or words not quite so polite!

 

[43066]

I very much doubt it's people who need assistance are those who have to be told to keep feet off seats ...

The poster I quoted appeared to be suggesting that only “average” passengers should be catered for. I’m asking how that fits in with the oft stated desire to improve access for disabled people?

In fact there’s very few complaints about the number of announcements which tends to be an enthusiast only concern.

That very much confirms my suspicion. It’s interesting that this doesn’t seem to be an issue for non enthusiasts, nor indeed staff and traincrew, who are the people who hear announcements the most.

This, this, a million times this!

If you regularly travel on another TOC, you will eventually tune all the announcements out.

If you don't travel on SWR Class 444 trains with some regularity, you won't be able to appreciate that on these services, this tuning-out is impossible. The auto-announcements are an acceptable volume, but manual guard announcements are routinely 85 decibels plus. The manual announcements will often take almost two minutes each time, as well. After every stop yesterday, the guard announced, at over 85 decibel volume:

- Destination (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- Calling Points (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- Next Stop (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- First class locations
- Quiet coach locations ("please keep noise down here"- the irony!)
- Safety notices are located in every coach (so they're everywhere then- does this need to be said?)
- If you see something unusual... (the auto announcer said this 15 seconds ago)
- Where the guard is located (potentially useful to be fair; only say this and let the auto-announcements cover everything else?)

The journeys are otherwise pleasant. This constant barraging of loud messaging really is a step-above what is experienced elsewhere.

(As an aside- I've never noticed passengers elsewhere muttering "shut up"(*) during announcements, apart from on SWR).

* or words not quite so polite!

How do you know so precisely, unless you were literally timing the announcements, and measuring them with a decibel meter?

Have you considered that there may be some groups of travellers - irregular railway users, disabled travellers - who do benefit from the announcements?

 

[pompeyfan]

Just to note the Desiro fleet do NOT read the calling pattern throughout the journey, they should only read the calling pattern at the origin station.

 

[Goldfish62]

Just to note the Desiro fleet do NOT read the calling pattern throughout the journey, they should only read the calling pattern at the origin station.

Yes indeed. The calling pattern is shown on the visual displays only during the journey.

As someone else observed it's the 701s which tediously announce the calling pattern after every stop. Hopefully this will be changed, as it was on the 458s soon after they were introduced.

 

[renegademaster]

This is correct, if people behaved better, you would get fewer announcements.

If people did behave better , it would be taken as evidence of them working, ensuring they stay longer. and if they don't work it's a sign we need more

 

[jfollows]

SWR are awful now.

Sad to hear.
I’m old enough to remember late night 8-TC+4-REP leaving Waterloo in the front bay and having only the AWS bell as extraneous noise. The front of the train had a prominent 92 so anyone could know where it was going.
Announcements are over-used because they can be, and whilst I know it would not make sense to abolish them entirely, Grant Shapps was right for once.
Now when I go into Manchester I’m told we’re arriving in Stockport when we aren’t, presumably because “someone” decided it was appropriate to leave lots of time for collecting belongings etc.
Worst I ever heard was when the auto announcements at Birmingham New Street were first turned on, but I think these were so bad that they’ve been curtailed somewhat since.

 

[Lewisham2221]

the 701s which tediously announce the calling pattern after every stop.

Much like the trains I recently travelled on in France. The full "This train is for xxx, calling at aaa, bbb, ccc etc." after every stop. And approaching every stop: "The next stop is yyy." then repeated in a further two languages (and people complain about Welsh announcements in Wales!). Followed by "Please remember to take your luggage and personal belongings with you when leaving the train and mind the gap between the train and the platform"

But, of course, everything is better in Europe...

 

[Ianmel1969]

Which train were you on? (Specifically, the type of unit. I don’t want your journey details, feel free to keep those private! ). I don’t remember these being part of the scheduled automated announcements, they’re only on the system so that train crew can fire them off as requests.

9 car Guildford to Pompey. Class 444/450 on Wednesday

 

[Goldfish62]

Much like the trains I recently travelled on in France. The full "This train is for xxx, calling at aaa, bbb, ccc etc." after every stop. And approaching every stop: "The next stop is yyy." then repeated in a further two languages (and people complain about Welsh announcements in Wales!). Followed by "Please remember to take your luggage and personal belongings with you when leaving the train and mind the gap between the train and the platform"

But, of course, everything is better in Europe...

In Germany and Austria it's just the next station announced on the approach to it (with some interchange info for key stations). Nothing more than that.