Ex Virgin Trains Voyagers, where could they go next?

[Clansman]

I know Scotrail have employed shorter 125 sets on some routes, could Voyagers assist with this or even replace them?

They are not compatible with the requirements for any Intercity route in Scotland.

 

[greatvoyager]

They are not compatible with the requirements for any Intercity route in Scotland.

Agreed, their layout makes them restrictive.

 

[greatvoyager]

One thing that would help would be a cleaner feel to all passenger areas.

 

[Harbornite]

Crosscountry or Iran. End of.

 

[greatvoyager]

Crosscountry or Iran. End of.

CrossCountry would be the better of those.

 

[ainsworth74]

I do find it funny that for saying they've been utterly derided and hated for so long that people are now scrabbling about trying to find uses for them to avoid them being scrapped

 

[greatvoyager]

To be fair, not everyone hates them. I don't anyway, even though I know lots of people who do.

 

[GrimShady]

If XC can't use them then the best place is the scrap heap.

 

[greatvoyager]

If XC can't use them then the best place is the scrap heap.

That's sadly the truth.

 

[coradiafan2000]

If they do go to crosscountry I'd like to see them replace Turbostars on the Cardiff- Nottingham and Birmingham- Stansted routes. It would provide a big boost in capacity and likely reduce journey times. That would also enable the 170s to go elsewhere to replace older stock (Northern 150s for example)

I've never really understood the hatred Voyagers get. I know that they have about half the coaches they should have, and that a lot of the time they're dangerously overcrowded. But I find they're remarkably reliable, and comfortable when they're not crowded. Not to mention how fast they are, I can't think of any DMU before the 800s that can accelerate quicker than them.

 

[greatvoyager]

If they do go to crosscountry I'd like to see them replace Turbostars on the Cardiff- Nottingham and Birmingham- Stansted routes. It would provide a big boost in capacity and likely reduce journey times. That would also enable the 170s to go elsewhere to replace older stock (Northern 150s for example)

I've never really understood the hatred Voyagers get. I know that they have about half the coaches they should have, and that a lot of the time they're dangerously overcrowded. But I find they're remarkably reliable, and comfortable when they're not crowded. Not to mention how fast they are, I can't think of any DMU before the 800s that can accelerate quicker than them.

I agree, Voyagers get so much hatred and i thinks exaggerated.
If CrossCountry do get them, the the likelihood would be to strengthen the core long distance routes by doubling up. These are massively overcrowded and could do with longer trains.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I agree, Voyagers get so much hatred and i thinks exaggerated.
If CrossCountry do get them, the the likelihood would be to strengthen the core long distance routes by doubling up. These are massively overcrowded and could do with longer trains.

Glad to know I'm not the only one! In an ideal world once leaving Virgin the 221s will strengthen the core long distance routes for the time being. Although I think long term CrossCountry should order new longer bi mode trains for those routes. After that then the Voyagers could work Cardiff- Nottingham and Birmingham- Stansted routes. I just think that 2 or 3 coach 170s on 3 hour plus intercity services is inadequate.

 

[greatvoyager]

Glad to know I'm not the only one! In an ideal world once leaving Virgin the 221s will strengthen the core long distance routes for the time being. Although I think long term CrossCountry should order new longer bi mode trains for those routes. After that then the Voyagers could work Cardiff- Nottingham and Birmingham- Stansted routes. I just think that 2 or 3 coach 170s on 3 hour plus intercity services is inadequate.

There was a time when 156/158s worked those routes, I can remember 170s being better and helping, but as time has gone on, they've become inadequate in terms of capacity.
I've always been a fan of Voyagers. I was 8 when they were introduced. As far as I'm concerned, they should've been earmarked for CrossCountry as soon as the replacement was announced.

 

[coradiafan2000]

There was a time when 156/158s worked those routes, I can remember 170s being better and helping, but as time has gone on, they've become inadequate in terms of capacity.
I've always been a fan of Voyagers. I was 8 when they were introduced. As far as I'm concerned, they should've been earmarked for CrossCountry as soon as the replacement was announced.

I was only 1! They're all I've known on those routes.

 

[greatvoyager]

I was only 1! They're all I've known on those routes.

I remember HSTs dominating the services and since they left, there's been major problems with overcrowding, which is why logically CrossCountry will gain surplus 22x units.

 

[greatvoyager]

I hope that the new First/Trenitalia franchise don't change too much on the 221s, as it would be easier for XC to integrate them (if that even happens).

 

[coradiafan2000]

I hope that the new First/Trenitalia franchise don't change too much on the 221s, as it would be easier for XC to integrate them (if that even happens).

I doubt they will, seeing as if all goes according to plan they won't have them for very long. On the other hand CrossCounry's Voyagers could do with a refurbishment, so if First/Trenitalia do alter them slightly (perhaps refurbish the interior), it may be for the better.

 

[greatvoyager]

I doubt they will, seeing as if all goes according to plan they won't have them for very long. On the other hand CrossCounry's Voyagers could do with a refurbishment, so if First/Trenitalia do alter them slightly (perhaps refurbish the interior), it may be for the better.

Either way, the interiors look dated now. Would be nice to see it refreshed.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Either way, the interiors look dated now. Would be nice to see it refreshed.

I was on one yesterday and thought it looked a bit tired, especially with no daylight through the windows as it was in the evening. I changed to a GWR 800 at Bristol Parkway and was staggered by how much brighter it was. If First/Trenitalia do decide to alter the interior of the 221s their first order of business should be fitting in lights that aren't so dim.

 

[greatvoyager]

I was on one yesterday and thought it looked a bit tired, especially with no daylight through the windows as it was in the evening. I changed to a GWR 800 at Bristol Parkway and was staggered by how much brighter it was. If First/Trenitalia do decide to alter the interior of the 221s their first order of business should be fitting in lights that aren't so dim.

A valid point, but it'll be down to cost balanced against how long they are withdrawn, which I expect to be around 2035.

 

[greatvoyager]

I hope they go to XC, much needed capacity boost on the main routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope they go to XC, much needed capacity boost on the main routes.

I suspect XC will, at some point over the next 5 years, end up being the only operator of 22x, both to replace HSTs and to allow doubling up on busy services. That can't happen too soon.

 

[greatvoyager]

I suspect XC will, at some point over the next 5 years, end up being the only operator of 22x, both to replace HSTs and to allow doubling up on busy services. That can't happen too soon.

Even if just for the short term, it seems most likely.

 

[devonexpress]

Both the ex Virgin 221 and supposedly the Class 222(even though they aren't coupling compatible with the other voyagers) are going to XC.

 

[greatvoyager]

Both the ex Virgin 221 and supposedly the Class 222(even though they aren't coupling compatible with the other voyagers) are going to XC.

It seems to be the accepted fate for them, but we will have to wait and see.

 

[greatvoyager]

Both the ex Virgin 221 and supposedly the Class 222(even though they aren't coupling compatible with the other voyagers) are going to XC.

Also, I don't think it'll matter that 222s aren't compatible. HSTs aren't compatible either so they'll probably have allocated diagrams.

 

[devonexpress]

Also, I don't think it'll matter that 222s aren't compatible. HSTs aren't compatible either so they'll probably have allocated diagrams.

But HST are fixed 7 coaches, the 222s are mix of 5, 6 and 7 coaches. I believe its only a different coupling so it may be that they get modified to fit with the 220/221s so XC have the ability to mix its fleet and bolster busy services.

 

[greatvoyager]

But HST are fixed 7 coaches, the 222s are mix of 5, 6 and 7 coaches. I believe its only a different coupling so it may be that they get modified to fit with the 220/221s so XC have the ability to mix its fleet and bolster busy services.

It's because of the layout of the electrics, they share the same coupling but if joined together, the leading unit is unable to control the rear unit.
The chances are 4/5 car 222s will be kept working only with each other, whereas 7-car units can work on their own.

 

[LOL The Irony]

even though they aren't coupling compatible with the other voyagers

Isn't that only down to the differing software?

 

[greatvoyager]

Isn't that only down to the differing software?

Yes, and the fact that the electronics are set out differently to be under the floor and create more room.