Ex Virgin Trains Voyagers, where could they go next?

[greatvoyager]

Perhaps they could use the units to test a bigger refurbishment for the rest of the fleet.

 

[greatvoyager]

The ex Avanti 221s are going to be in not much demand other than XC. Could they be used by ROG for fast parcel or freight?

 

[greatvoyager]

I massively dislike all dark coloured liveries honestly, but XC is one of the better ones.

I'd like to think proper repaints will be done, rather than vinyl.

 

[greatvoyager]

I would like to see voyagers named once again in the future.

 

[coradiafan2000]

If they are transferred to another operator and not scrapped, are there any other routes that could utilise tilt?

I think when Virgin operated XC they had Voyagers tilting on the Oxford to Birmingham line.

 

[krus_aragon]

I think when Virgin operated XC they had Voyagers tilting on the Oxford to Birmingham line.

True, but the lineside equipment's long gone. If they were to tilt anywhere other than the WCML, they'd have to be infrastructure changes to allow it.

 

[greatvoyager]

I think when Virgin operated XC they had Voyagers tilting on the Oxford to Birmingham line.

I thought so too, but I guess that line isn't long enough to warrant it.

 

[coradiafan2000]

True, but the lineside equipment's long gone. If they were to tilt anywhere other than the WCML, they'd have to be infrastructure changes to allow it.

Ah. Nevermind then.

 

[greatvoyager]

True, but the lineside equipment's long gone. If they were to tilt anywhere other than the WCML, they'd have to be infrastructure changes to allow it.

I hadn't thought about that. That makes it more complicated.

 

[greatvoyager]

Ah. Nevermind then.

In any event, tilt is becoming obsolete.

 

[coradiafan2000]

In any event, tilt is becoming obsolete.

Unfortunately yes. And I'm actually quite surprised by that. There are other threads debating whether superior acceleration of 80x or 397s is enough to make up for the time lost by not tilting.

 

[greatvoyager]

Unfortunately yes. And I'm actually quite surprised by that. There are other threads debating whether superior acceleration of 80x or 397s is enough to make up for the time lost by not tilting.

That what it comes down to. If it can get to 100mph faster than existing stock then it will be fine, as although pendolino/super voyagers can go 125mph, it takes longer to get to that speed.

 

[Energy]

It really depends on the service, for example a the new Avanti EMUs make sense for the services in the west midlands, like to Birmingham, as their fast acceleration allows them to get up to speed quickly to get to the next station quicker, tilt isn't a big concern as before long they are stopping anyway so fast acceleration makes up time.
On a route to Scotland with few stops tilt absolutely makes sense, tilt helps the units stay at high speed for long periods of time, this is not needed as much on more frequently stopping services.

 

[greatvoyager]

It really depends on the service, for example a the new Avanti EMUs make sense for the services in the west midlands, like to Birmingham, as their fast acceleration allows them to get up to speed quickly to get to the next station quicker, tilt isn't a big concern as before long they are stopping anyway so fast acceleration makes up time.
On a route to Scotland with few stops tilt absolutely makes sense, tilt helps the units stay at high speed for long periods of time, this is not needed as much on more frequently stopping services.

Frequent stopping could be a regular thing on the WCML after HS2. I expect 390s will retain tilt, but the 221s can probably go without it.

 

[coradiafan2000]

I think that the Avanti services which call at more places will be OK if they don't have tilting stock, but the fast Glasgow services which run non stop from Euston to Warrington? I'm almost certain an 80x couldn't do it as quick as a 390.

Sorry if that was off topic, just wanted to offer my views on the matter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that the Avanti services which call at more places will be OK if they don't have tilting stock, but the fast Glasgow services which run non stop from Euston to Warrington? I'm almost certain an 80x couldn't do it as quick as a 390.

Sorry if that was off topic, just wanted to offer my views on the matter.

Just as well that there's no intention to use 80x on those services then!

 

[greatvoyager]

I think that the Avanti services which call at more places will be OK if they don't have tilting stock, but the fast Glasgow services which run non stop from Euston to Warrington? I'm almost certain an 80x couldn't do it as quick as a 390.

Sorry if that was off topic, just wanted to offer my views on the matter.

Frequent stops are okay for 221s as they do that on XC routes. 390s and 125mphbwill probably still work the Scotland services from Euston.

 

[greatvoyager]

The 221s can be pit onto other routes without tilt, and if it becomes permanently deactivated then it'll reduce costs.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Just as well that there's no intention to use 80x on those services then!

That's what I thought. They're using them on the Birmingham services and the Liverpool ones aren't they? I'm fine with 80xs on the former, but don't the Liverpool services run non stop to Stafford? I think an 80x would struggle to keep to 390 timings on that, unless Avanti are changing the timetable.

Going back to the topic of the thread, I think one of the reasons why Voyagers were chosen for the open access operation to Liverpool was because they can tilt, and they felt that would lead to faster journey times overall when compared to superior acceleration. I still believe that the Voyagers are better suited elsewhere, like boosting capacity on XC.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's what I thought. They're using them on the Birmingham services and the Liverpool ones aren't they?

Yes, they are being used on the second Liverpool plus some Birmingham terminators, possibly those already using 5 car Voyagers.

 

[greatvoyager]

That's what I thought. They're using them on the Birmingham services and the Liverpool ones aren't they? I'm fine with 80xs on the former, but don't the Liverpool services run non stop to Stafford? I think an 80x would struggle to keep to 390 timings on that, unless Avanti are changing the timetable.

Going back to the topic of the thread, I think one of the reasons why Voyagers were chosen for the open access operation to Liverpool was because they can tilt, and they felt that would lead to faster journey times overall when compared to superior acceleration. I still believe that the Voyagers are better suited elsewhere, like boosting capacity on XC.

Voyagers to XC should be a no brainer really.

 

[The Ham]

Voyagers to XC should be a no brainer really.

Even with the Virgin services to Liverpool, there should be a few spare units for XC.

London to Liverpool current journey time 2:15 to 2:30 (the latter is with a change at Crewe)
Therefore a 6 hour round trip time (i.e. time taken from leaving London to run the whole route and then be ready to leave London again) is likely, which would require 12 units to run an hourly service. Even allowing for a further 2 to 4 spare units that's still 4 to 6 units for XC.

However, if the service is every 2 hours then it could be great it's 10-12 units which XC receives.

 

[greatvoyager]

Even with the Virgin services to Liverpool, there should be a few spare units for XC.

London to Liverpool current journey time 2:15 to 2:30 (the latter is with a change at Crewe)
Therefore a 6 hour round trip time (i.e. time taken from leaving London to run the whole route and then be ready to leave London again) is likely, which would require 12 units to run an hourly service. Even allowing for a further 2 to 4 spare units that's still 4 to 6 units for XC.

However, if the service is every 2 hours then it could be great it's 10-12 units which XC receives.

Considering the need to ease overcrowding, I hope XC get them.

 

[greatvoyager]

Would a program to install greener engines be realistic?

 

[greatvoyager]

Realistically then, they will either end up at XC or with Virgin's open access operation.

 

[greatvoyager]

Are Voyagers good for regular stopping services?

 

[The Planner]

Are Voyagers good for regular stopping services?

Define regular, and not really as their dwell time is high.

 

[greatvoyager]

Define regular, and not really as their dwell time is high.

Maybe secondary services, such as Nottingham to Cardiff.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Maybe secondary services, such as Nottingham to Cardiff.

With the current services they work, I'd say the closest stops are between Edinburgh and Haymarket. Bristol temple meads and parkway are pretty close too. I'm sure they could work what the 170s are on now.

 

[greatvoyager]

With the current services they work, I'd say the closest stops are between Edinburgh and Haymarket. Bristol temple meads and parkway are pretty close too. I'm sure they could work what the 170s are on now.

That's what I thought too. I was considering using the VT 221s to displace 4-cr units to that route.