Exeter - Weymouth via Castle Cary

[Grecian 1998]

There is fairly regular talk of creating the Clifton Maybank curve at Yeovil to allow Exeter - Dorchester / Weymouth services, which would improve public transport between East Devon and South Dorset. At the moment, the primary options are train - bus train via Yeovil (although you can replace the bus with a walk if you're fit, feeling brave and don't mind having to throw yourself into a hedge occasionally), or train Exeter - Axminster and then bus to Dorchester or Weymouth (although the latter isn't much of an option in evenings or on winter Sundays). However, could Exeter - Weymouth via Castle Cary using 158s or 166s be a viable service?

Advantages AFAICS:

• Links Exeter, Taunton, Yeovil, Dorchester and Weymouth
• GWR cover the whole route as it is
• Doesn't require the Clifton Maybank curve to be built, but does serve the station which is actually in Yeovil.
• There's more capacity on the Exeter St Davids - Castle Cary route than Exeter Central - Yeovil Junction
• It should be possible to serve the whole route in approx. 2 hours, even with a reversal at Castle Cary. This would be competitive with the car (certainly in the height of summer, as anyone who's travelled along the A35 through Chideock at that time will know).
• Could serve Cullompton and Wellington if they ever reopen

Disadvantages AFAICS:

• A 158 or 166 isn't going to break even so who is going to pay for the service? This is of course invariably the single biggest issue with any proposal around here.
• AIUI Weymouth trains are crewed entirely from Westbury currently, and I'm not aware that 158s or 166s regularly travel between Taunton and Castle Cary.
• Crossover west of Castle Cary from up to down line likely to be needed. Otherwise Exeter - Weymouth services will need to head east through platform 1, stop and reverse back crossing over into platform 2 or 3, blocking the up line for a few minutes. Not exactly ideal to say the least and I'm not sure that's allowed currently anyway.
• Limited paths from Yeovil - Weymouth so would only be possible a few times a day, at a time when the DfT are trying to eliminate sporadic service patterns.
• Wouldn't directly serve any of East Devon beyond Exeter.

It is currently possible to change at Castle Cary if travelling on this route, but the connections seem (perhaps understandably as a minor market) to be low priority. Bristol - Weymouth services can have gaps of 2 - 3 hours and Exeter St Davids - Paddington stoppers have 2 hour gaps, so anyone changing there can have a very long wait at a station with limited facilities and few amenities nearby.

The X53 used to connect Exeter and Dorchester / Weymouth but has been cut back to Axminster after subsidies were withdrawn. It did however take 3 hours each way and could suffer massive delays due to travelling so far across largely single carriageway roads. A rail service could probably do the route in approx. 2 hours and wouldn't be as likely to be subject to delay. However would it be a good use of resources?

 

[PTR 444]

There is fairly regular talk of creating the Clifton Maybank curve at Yeovil to allow Exeter - Dorchester / Weymouth services, which would improve public transport between East Devon and South Dorset.

Weymouth - Exeter via Axminster can theoretically be done without the reinstatement of the Clifton Maybank curve. Trains can just reverse at Yeovil Pen Mill, serving both the nearest station for the town and Yeovil Junction in the process.

The big question is whether such a service will actually be commercially viable.

 

[30907]

Given that there is a reasonable Castle Cary - Exeter service, the simplest solution would be reasonable (not too tight, not too slack, but just right...) connections; if the County Council's wish for an hourly service on the HoW can be financed and timetabled that might help.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Weymouth - Exeter via Axminster can theoretically be done without the reinstatement of the Clifton Maybank curve. Trains can just reverse at Yeovil Pen Mill, serving both the nearest station for the town and Yeovil Junction in the process.

I'd have thought that was the most sensible first option. It minimises capital outlay and also provides an additional service between Honiton and Exeter which local enthusiasts have insisted is becoming necessary. If this were tried and patronage rose without Yeovil Pen Mill contributing much, building a new curve might then be considered.

 

[30907]

I'd have thought that was the most sensible first option. It minimises capital outlay and also provides an additional service between Honiton and Exeter which local enthusiasts have insisted is becoming necessary. If this were tried and patronage rose without Yeovil Pen Mill contributing much, building a new curve might then be considered.

Devon wants a local service as far as Axminster.
Dorset wants HoW to be hourly towards Westbury/Bristol
AFAIK neither is interested in Exeter-Weymouth.

The only way forward fitting those aspirations, requiring 1 extra unit, would be an hourly(?) Exeter-Pen Mill. Going through to Weymouth would, sadly, require an extra unit, which scuppers the business case (even assuming it can be timetabled).

 

[RPI]

• AIUI Weymouth trains are crewed entirely from Westbury currently, and I'm not aware that 158s or 166s regularly travel between Taunton and Castle Cary.

Westbury, Bristol and *Weymouth crews all work to Weymouth

*Only cunductors based at Weymouth, no drivers are based there.

 

[zwk500]

Devon wants a local service as far as Axminster.
Dorset wants HoW to be hourly towards Westbury/Bristol
AFAIK neither is interested in Exeter-Weymouth.

The only way forward fitting those aspirations, requiring 1 extra unit, would be an hourly(?) Exeter-Pen Mill. Going through to Weymouth would, sadly, require an extra unit, which scuppers the business case (even assuming it can be timetabled).

terminating at Pen Mill would be somewhere between fiddly and painful operationally if HoW goes to 1tph, as there's only 2 platforms. Possible, but difficult to get any usable connections.

 

[Flinn Reed]

I agree that the best option would be for the proposed Exeter-Axminster to continue to Yeovil Pen Mill via Yeovil Junction, with scope to potentially extend some services through to Weymouth (reversing at Pen Mill).

This would also provide a half-hourly service to the east of Exeter, and allow the Waterloo services to call at fewer stations, potentially cutting journey times. Even some stations on the remaining section between Yeovil and Salisbury don't necessarily need an hourly service, such as Tisbury or Templecombe.

The only issue is whether the line has the capacity for the stoppers to continue from Axminster to Yeovil, with most of the route being single-track. An alternative option might be to reinstate the curve to the south of Yeovil Junction. This would then allow the GWR Weymouth services to additionally stop at Yeovil Junction for interchange towards Exeter/London.

 

[Wychwood93]

Some 30 years ago, in the days of 'Solent and Wessex', there was talk of actually completing the Clifton Maybank south curve and running from Yeovil Pen Mill to Junction, change ends and off to Weymouth. At the same time there was also talk of raising the speed on the Wylye valley (Warminster to Salisbury) to 90 vice 75. Very quiet on those fronts in the intervening 30 years - ditto sorting out the 45 PSR in the Chetnole/Yetminster area.

 

[Irascible]

Has there ever actually been a Clifton Maybank curve to the station? that's awfully expensive when noone wants to even pay for the bus at the moment. Exeter-Pen Mill might have something but it's a bit far for a metro service.

 

[swt_passenger]

Has there ever actually been a Clifton Maybank curve to the station? that's awfully expensive when noone wants to even pay for the bus at the moment. Exeter-Pen Mill might have something but it's a bit far for a metro service.

AIUI from previous discussions the earthworks for that curve were built by 1860, but no track was ever installed. I think the idea that it’s some sort of easy and quick win is rather doubtful. Could such an old earthwork scheme even be brought into use without a pretty thorough investigation and rebuild? On the other hand it’s not that long compared to some proposals…

 

[zwk500]

AIUI from previous discussions the earthworks for that curve were built by 1860, but no track was ever installed. I think the idea that it’s some sort of easy and quick win is rather doubtful. Could such an old earthwork scheme even be brought into use without a pretty thorough investigation and rebuild? On the other hand it’s not that long compared to some proposals…

It's definitely not a quick win, but the lack of track on the curve beforehand is not the main problem (that would be the rebuild of Yeovil Junction required). I suspect that after about 30 years of no or minimal maintenance, the earthworks are in such a condition that it does matter if you leave them for 30 or 130 years, they'll need redoing to the same extent.

 

[randyrippley]

It's definitely not a quick win, but the lack of track on the curve beforehand is not the main problem (that would be the rebuild of Yeovil Junction required). I suspect that after about 30 years of no or minimal maintenance, the earthworks are in such a condition that it does matter if you leave them for 30 or 130 years, they'll need redoing to the same extent.

Also the earthworks align with the Clifton Maybank goods spur which served the GWR transfer shed to the SW of the station. They would need complete realignment to enter the current station, though if platforms 3/4 were reopened it might work

It's definitely not a quick win, but the lack of track on the curve beforehand is not the main problem (that would be the rebuild of Yeovil Junction required). I suspect that after about 30 years of no or minimal maintenance, the earthworks are in such a condition that it does matter if you leave them for 30 or 130 years, they'll need redoing to the same extent.

30? More like 150
And we don't know how much damage was done during the station rebuild during the early 20thC

Has there ever actually been a Clifton Maybank curve to the station? that's awfully expensive when noone wants to even pay for the bus at the moment. Exeter-Pen Mill might have something but it's a bit far for a metro service.

There was a broad gauge curve from the GWR goods transfer shed which joined the Weymouth line in a northbound direction. The junction has long gone but the Heritage Centre use the relaid trackbed as a short running line. The southbound curve which is what we're discussing never had track

 

[zwk500]

30? More like 150

My point was that after a certain amount of time, it doesn't matter how long it's been.

 

[randyrippley]

old map showing the earthworks