Experiences of European Cross Border Travel

[paddington]

Technically many countries are in breach of the Schengen agreement, but nobody cares. This makes for interesting reading although he seems to have given up on his project: https://jonworth.eu/tag/schengen/

People on Wikipedia have compiled decent articles about which countries oblige their citizens and/or residents to obtain ID cards, but it is difficult to find information about which countries require everyone to carry ID at all times.

These are two different things, e.g. in Germany everyone (above a certain age) must have an ID but they don't need to carry it, while in Belgium everyone must have an ID and must also carry it whenever they go more than a tiny distance from home.

 

[mallard]

When I passed the Bulgaria-Romania (non-Schengen, but in EU) border on a train, we stopped for some time just inside Romania while a border guard took everyone's passports, disappeared for around half an hour then returned. Since that's not exactly a high-traffic border (at least by rail; it's a 2-car DMU 3? times per day), I guess there's no impetus to speed things up.

Later on the same trip, I took the overnight sleeper train from Bucharest to Budapest (i.e. across the Schengen border). I believe my passport was checked by the on-train staff before departure in Bucharest, but that was it. No check at all at the actual border or by any government (well, non-railway) official.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So i have done a large amount of travelling all around Europe without any passport or ID. I thought this was pretty normal. I have been as far as France to Estonia and back again without a passport or ID.

It's a good idea to carry your EHIC card with you (as long as it still works in the EU27) as well as a passport/ID.
I left mine in the hotel in Budapest while out sightseeing, and when I was accidently hospitalised the admin billed me the full cost of treatment.
I did manage to email them that night a scan of the card to avoid the Hungarian bailiffs coming round.
They even doubted at first that UK citizens were still entitled to treatment under EHIC (they are - for now).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pre-Schengen you used to give the sleeping car attendant your passport and it would be processed by them overnight without even waking you up.

 

[geoffk]

In 2017 I was on a steam-hauled special through the Alps. We started in Germany and went through Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia, Austria and back to Germany. the only sign of a border we saw was at Chiasso, where we had to walk through a customs hall after alighting from our train on the Swiss side, before it drew forward and collected an Italian loco. We didn't have suitcases with us as these had gone on ahead (by road!)

 

[eastwestdivide]

In the last 6 years or so, I've had (as far as I can remember) ...

Border checks:
Domodossola (I)/Brig (CH) on train, inspected passports
Brenner (A/I) on train, cursory glance

No border checks:
TGV Turin (I)-Paris (F)
ferry Friedrichshafen-Romanshorn (D/CH)
local trains around Lindau (D)/Bregenz (A)/St Margarethen (CH)
local and IC trains at Basel (D/CH)
train over the border at Salzburg (A/D)
local train over the border E of San Candido (I/A)
the Centovalli line (I/CH)
trains over the Belgium/Luxembourg border
local train over Luxembourg/Germany border
TGV from Basel (CH)-Paris (F)
walked through empty border post at Chiasso (CH/I)
walked through empty border post from Basel (CH) to Basel SNCF platforms (F)
IC train Brussels-Rotterdam (B/NL)
local trains changing at Venlo (NL/D)
cycled NL/D/B in the three-country border W of Aachen
walked Austria-Liechtenstein-Switz, via unmanned border post on main road nr Feldkirch
walked Tirano (I)-Brusio (CH) admittedly via a footpath, not a road

 

[coppercapped]

Yes, I was going to say that, I believe it's mandatory to carry a passport or EU ID card when crossing a Schengen border regardless of the countries' own policy.

As I understand it the requirements are simply that one has to carry the form of identification that is required by the laws of the country one is in.
If the requirement is for an ID card then as the UK does not issue ID cards the the fall-back position for a British Citizen is to carry a passport.
All that Schengen does is remove the checks when crossing the borders - it's a single market aiming for 'ever closer union' so such checks don't make any logical sense. This doesn't mean that security patrols cannot operate close to borders...

 

[DavidGrain]

Some years ago I was at a conference in Maastricht. One day a group of us took an organised coach trip to the Bombardier factory in Aachen. As we were crossing an international border we were instructed to have our passports with us but there was no check.

Last year I was at a conference in Austria. The business sessions one day were at the University of Liechtenstein. We went by coach and at the Liechtenstein border it is the Swiss Border Police who control the border. Our coach stopped under the roof of the customs post for about one minute and then the lights turned to green and we moved off. Our return journey actually took us into Switzerland as the road was on the Swiss side of the border with Liechtenstein. EDIT Have remembered that I flew to Friedrichshafen in Germany and then got trains into Austria. I don't actually know where the border is.

I have travelled by train between Brussels and Aachen a few times and the only way I knew we crossed the border was as we ran over the points switching from left hand to right hand running.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I have travelled by train between Brussels and Aachen a few times and the only way I knew we crossed the border was as we ran over the points switching from left hand to right hand running.

As they have gotten rid of the flyover

 

[TheSeeker]

If the requirement is for an ID card then as the UK does not issue ID cards the the fall-back position for a British Citizen is to carry a passport.

This is also my understanding of the system. Here in Belgium it is an offence to not carry your ID card. I always assumed this was Schengen wide policy. The whole point of the system seems to be to remove border checks but tighten up identity checks elsewhere. I can't do anything official here in Belgium without showing my ID card. Open a bank account, get married, be admitted to hospital, buy something on credit, sell something to a second hand shop, apply for a driving license etc. etc.

As I read recently the UK will lose access to the Schengen database after Brexit. Along with the European arrest warrant this looks like a huge loss.

 

[43096]

Done a fair few border crossings within the Schengen area, and haven't been checked on the vast majority of crossings. Only two that stick in the mind are at Maribor where the Police came round at stupid o'clock in the morning with the torch in face routine on the Budapest-Koper overnight. The second was during the height of the migrant crisis in Budapest at Keleti in August 2015 where the Police checked passports on the platforms and then did a sweep of the train before departure as many had attempted to board by jumping across the tracks. One of those occasions where having a British passport was rather useful! Think that delayed the train (EN462 to Munich) by over an hour, but stuck with it as there was a required Taurus on the front!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As they have gotten rid of the flyover

What have they done that for? Seems a retrograde step.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Last year I was at a conference in Austria. The business sessions one day were at the University of Liechtenstein. We went by coach and at the Liechtenstein border it is the Swiss Border Police who control the border. Our coach stopped under the roof of the customs post for about one minute and then the lights turned to green and we moved off. Our return journey actually took us into Switzerland as the road was on the Swiss side of the border with Liechtenstein. EDIT Have remembered that I flew to Friedrichshafen in Germany and then got trains into Austria. I don't actually know where the border is.

CH of course is a bit different as it is not in the EU customs union so often operates customs checks and still has active border posts for this purpose. Most notably at Geneva if there's a cancellation the low cost airlines like putting people in hotels in Annemasse in France as they are far cheaper than in Switzerland, and if they get wind of that they like taking duty-free off people.

 

[SHD]

UK: EU (for now), customs union (for now), not Schengen
CH: not EU, not customs union, in Schengen
Norway: not EU, not Schengen, sort of in customs union I think (might be wrong)

Norway is in the EEA, is in Schengen (as well as Iceland - Nordic passport union), but is not in a customs union with the EU (notably in order to protect its farming sector). So customs checks are needed for agricultural products.

In addition, as Norway is in the EEA & in the Single market, there are no tariffs or other regulatory barriers regarding trade in non-agricultural goods between Norway and EU members. As Norway is not in the Customs union, it sets its own tariffs regarding trade with non-EU members.

This is another rationale for Norway-EU customs checks: ensuring that products from third countries do not enter the EU through the backdoor.

 

[route101]

It wasn't then either It had joined Schengen by 2010. But a lot of people forget that Schengen, the EU and the customs union are kind-of separate, and that there are countries that are in one but not the other, e.g.:

UK: EU (for now), customs union (for now), not Schengen
CH: not EU, not customs union, in Schengen
Norway: not EU, not Schengen, sort of in customs union I think (might be wrong)

Norway is the Schengen for sure .
Think it was Dec 08 for CH .

Ireland is not either and Cyprus too

 

[route101]

With these intra schengen checks , do they stamp non - eu passports?

 

[route101]

CH of course is a bit different as it is not in the EU customs union so often operates customs checks and still has active border posts for this purpose. Most notably at Geneva if there's a cancellation the low cost airlines like putting people in hotels in Annemasse in France as they are far cheaper than in Switzerland, and if they get wind of that they like taking duty-free off people.

Regarding the duty free , is it a lot cheaper in CH ?

Another thing is dairy or fresh meat products , ive never seen any from outside the EU apart from Iceland ( Skyr yoghurts) or CH (Cheese)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding the duty free , is it a lot cheaper in CH ?

It's actual duty free. Stuff sold at airports for intra-Europe travel isn't actually duty free, the duty is still paid because it's within the customs union.

I'm not sure of the basis for taking it off people. I suspect something like it having been imported back into CH due to re-entering the landside area of the airport or somesuch.

 

[bspahh]

Around about 2010 I was driving on a country lane near Enniskillen and was stopped at a temporary police checkpoint. I forget if it was at the border between Northern Ireland and EIRE, but it was nearby. The checks were made by the police, with some soldiers 50m down the road with their rifles out, ready to give covering fire.

I met a German who moved house from Basel to Southern Germany. He had to pay import duty on possessions like bottles of wine, even though they had been more expensive in Switzerland than they would have been in Germany.

 

[fowler9]

With these intra schengen checks , do they stamp non - eu passports?

Regarding passport stamping, when I crossed from Croatia to Bosnia we were asked if we would like our passport stamped as a memento, Australia was slapdash and New Zealand didn't even bother stamping my passport on departure or check when I arrived. South America were nails on passport stamps in and out though, very nice stamps they are to. Ha ha.

I don't think it is wise, even before we leave the EU, to travel around without official ID such as a passport, even if border crossings are pretty straightforward people in many European countries are expected to carry ID in their own country and Brits abroad are expected to do the same .

 

[43096]

I don't think it is wise, even before we leave the EU, to travel around without official ID such as a passport, even if border crossings are pretty straightforward people in many European countries are expected to carry ID in their own country and Brits abroad are expected to do the same .

Agreed, and that is the basis I work on. If you're travelling on an Interrail the passport number is shown on the ticket and guards can ask to see your passport when they do a grip.

 

[Mag_seven]

If you're travelling on an Interrail the passport number is shown on the ticket and guards can ask to see your passport when they do a grip.

Indeed it is, as with the case with FIP (Rail Staff) coupons. I would have my passport with me at all times when abroad as a matter of course anyway - you need it to get back to the UK!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I did the splendid Verona - Innsbruck run about 18 months ago and there were very full checks by both immigration and a walk through by the "Alpini" military ( weird almost Victorian pith helmets) - and there were both tight security fences alongside the tracks and some Stalag style watchtowers. Austrians clearly well aware of potential ex Italian migrant movements.

 

[route101]

Regarding passport stamping, when I crossed from Croatia to Bosnia we were asked if we would like our passport stamped as a memento, Australia was slapdash and New Zealand didn't even bother stamping my passport on departure or check when I arrived. South America were nails on passport stamps in and out though, very nice stamps they are to. Ha ha.

I don't think it is wise, even before we leave the EU, to travel around without official ID such as a passport, even if border crossings are pretty straightforward people in many European countries are expected to carry ID in their own country and Brits abroad are expected to do the same .

I remember asking for a Bosnia one . They rarely ask if you want one !

 

[MarcVD]

What have they done that for? Seems a retrograde step.

The flyover was made in the 60ies when the line was electrified. It re-used an old bridge that was originally built for a branch line, at that time disused. It was abandoned when the line was modernized for ICE and TGV about 10 years ago. Now the line remains left hand running till Aachen station.

 

[MarcVD]

When I passed the Bulgaria-Romania (non-Schengen, but in EU) border on a train, we stopped for some time just inside Romania while a border guard took everyone's passports, disappeared for around half an hour then returned. Since that's not exactly a high-traffic border (at least by rail; it's a 2-car DMU 3? times per day), I guess there's no impetus to speed things up.

Can you tell us where and when it was exactly ? There are not so many rail border crossings between those two countries. I only crossed two of them, Giurgiu-Ruse and Calafat-Vidin, and none of them were crossed by DMUs...

 

[fowler9]

I remember asking for a Bosnia one . They rarely ask if you want one !

Well we got lucky to get the stamp. On the way back in we had a nightmare. Three hours at the border.

 

[Bald Rick]

On a slightly different form of transport, on my winter hols I often end up skiing across the France - Switzerland border. There’s a mountain huts with “Douane” on them, but you never see anyone, or get checked.

However were you to have an incident on the opposite side of the border to where you are staying, i imagine life would get pretty difficult without a passport. Consequently I always have mine with me.

 

[swt class 450]

I find that the borders in the Balkans area ( Albania / Bosnia & Herzegovina / Kosovo / Macedonia / Montenegro / Serbia ) seem to be very relaxed. Half the time they don't even bother stamping passports (even though they are suppose to) especially if you are from an EEA/EFTA/EU/Schengen country. I think all these countries are in the process of becoming EEA/EFTA/EU/Schengen members so they just aren't really bothered any more. There are also a few places that you can cross without any checks at all. For example some trains cross from Serbia in to Bosnia & Herzegovina and stop at the small rural village of Strpci and then cross back in to Serbia with no border controls on either side of either border crossing.

 

[mallard]

Can you tell us where and when it was exactly ? There are not so many rail border crossings between those two countries. I only crossed two of them, Giurgiu-Ruse and Calafat-Vidin, and none of them were crossed by DMUs...

Giurgiu-Ruse. In my case it was a 2-car Romanian Class 96 Desiro. I understand that loco-hauled sets are used for longer distance cross-border trains (this service was Ruse -> Bucharest, which I believe is 3 per-day or less) and that those trains have different passport arrangements.