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Express Coaches in Ireland

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ClydeCoaster

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This might be outwith the realm of this forum as it's outwith the UK, but the recent thread on the express services ran by independents, in particular from Donegal, reminded me I'm confused by the set up in Ireland so hopefully someone can answer.

Local bus services seem to be set by TFI, and run by either Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus, and now Go Ahead Ireland. The express services seem to be a bit more of a free-for-all. Last time I was in Dublin there was BE Expressway, Aircoach, Citylink, JJ Kavanagh, GoBus among them - have express services been deregulated in Ireland?
 
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F Great Eastern

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Pretty much all, aside from a small number of city bus services are deemed as Public Service Obligation routes which are run under contract from the National Transport Authority (of which Transport for Ireland part of), to operators. The NTA supply the vehicles for the services and set the timetables and fares. The operators are allowed input and to give their views but the NTA makes the final decision. This has been the case for the last decade or so, when they were established. Before that things were directly operated by the Department of Transport who were rather more hands off.

In relation to Intercity services these are all commercial services where regulated competition is allowed which generally involves the NTA allowing two operators per license type per route on a first come first served basis on application for a route. Note that Express services and multi-stopping services are regarded as separate services, so for example you could have two Dublin to Galway non stop services and two Dublin to Galway multi-stop services but you couldn't have three of one of them.

In addition there is also a few clauses to stop predatory behaviour, which says that when there are two operators on a corridor, they must be time separated from each other 15-30 minutes at each town/city they call at, and ideally must operate from different bus stops. Operators cannot run extra services when they feel demand is high - if they want to add extra capacity, the extra capacity must be provided as a relief operating at the same time as the main coach. This was done based on the desire to avoid bus wars.

Where Bus Eireann has lost out is that it was slow to see the demand for high frequency non stop services and by the time that it realised the high demand, both of the Express licenses on the key corridors were already taken by private operators who saw potential demand and this has left Bus Eireann with most of the stopping services that they historically had whereas private operators have tempted those traveling between the bigger cities away from Bus Eireann by operating fast non stop services that run from very early to very late.

Cross border services between Northern Ireland and Ireland are effectively de-regulated as they are run under European rules so do not fall under the jurisdiction of either the Irish National Transport Authority or the Northern Ireland department of infrastructure, which is why we've seen what many people have described as a bus war on the Belfast - Dublin route with there being 3 express services in 15 minutes and then none for 45 minutes for most hours of the day. That kind of set-up would not be allowed on a domestic route in either country.

Licensing guidelines are here:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/download-licensing-legislation-guides-information/

A list of current licenses are here:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/190510_CurrLic.pdf
 
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ClydeCoaster

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Thanks for that!! I did wonder why Expressway routes were no where near as express as their competition, and also explains why the likes of Citylink or Aircoach haven't expanded to run other intercity corridors, obviously because other's got in there first.

The cooperative Donegal - Glasgow route must fall into the latter category then, being effectively deregulated.
 

route101

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I was in Dublin in April and noticed very few normal coaches in normal bus eirrean colours but most in red colours . Unless its a new livery .
 

ClydeCoaster

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Expressway coaches are now mainly red, with grey font lower and rear upper and white relief - so maybe the new livery?
 

Roilshead

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A list of current licenses are here:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/190510_CurrLic.pdf[/QUOTE]

I couldn't locate within that list the "gobus" Dublin Airport-Dublin-Galway service operated by Jim Burke, nor the "GoBE" Dublin Airport-Dublin-Cork service. GoBE is an interesting one, being a partnership of "gobus" and Bus Eireann: there is a GoBE website, but the "gobus" website implies the services are "gobus" (there is only one incidental reference to GoBE), I couldn't find any reference to GoBE on the Bus Eireann website, and it used to be stated on the GoBE website that booking was through "gobus" (although that statement now seems to have been removed); operation seems to be by "gobus"/"gobus" contractors; back in 2016 ticket machines were old-Wayfarer as still used by Bus Eireann rather than the new-Wayfarer/Parkeon used by "gobus", or you could buy a ticket at one of the concourse machines at the Busaras or Cork's Parnell Sq Bus Stn . . . but when I visited this summer I noticed that GoBE now serve street-side stops on the quays in both Dublin and Cork, as the independents do (access to Bus Eireann facilities at Cork and Dublin was supposed to have been one reason why "gobus" went into partnership with Bus Eireann on the Cork-Dublin express route rather than go-it-alone). But beyond that, Bus Eireann didn't seem to bring much to the partnership, and now that the services have been transferred to street pick-ups in Cork and Dublin I'm left wondering whether the partnership might have been dissolved.
 

GusB

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This section is "Buses & Coaches" and doesn't specifically mention that it's UK only. While Ireland is technically international, it has a land border with the UK, services that cross that border and they drive on the same side of the road. I think the discussion is better here than in the International Transport section.
 

F Great Eastern

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A list of current licenses are here:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/190510_CurrLic.pdf

I couldn't locate within that list the "gobus" Dublin Airport-Dublin-Galway service operated by Jim Burke, nor the "GoBE" Dublin Airport-Dublin-Cork service. GoBE is an interesting one, being a partnership of "gobus" and Bus Eireann: there is a GoBE website, but the "gobus" website implies the services are "gobus" (there is only one incidental reference to GoBE), I couldn't find any reference to GoBE on the Bus Eireann website, and it used to be stated on the GoBE website that booking was through "gobus" (although that statement now seems to have been removed); operation seems to be by "gobus"/"gobus" contractors; back in 2016 ticket machines were old-Wayfarer as still used by Bus Eireann rather than the new-Wayfarer/Parkeon used by "gobus", or you could buy a ticket at one of the concourse machines at the Busaras or Cork's Parnell Sq Bus Stn . . . but when I visited this summer I noticed that GoBE now serve street-side stops on the quays in both Dublin and Cork, as the independents do (access to Bus Eireann facilities at Cork and Dublin was supposed to have been one reason why "gobus" went into partnership with Bus Eireann on the Cork-Dublin express route rather than go-it-alone). But beyond that, Bus Eireann didn't seem to bring much to the partnership, and now that the services have been transferred to street pick-ups in Cork and Dublin I'm left wondering whether the partnership might have been dissolved.

GoBus is a trading name is Evobus and Coach Ltd, licenses are listed under the legal name of the company rather than the name that they are trading as so that is why you cannot find it.

The reasons for that partnership are purely as a marriage of convenience. Initially First applied for a license for that route and GoBus, seeing that First had been granted a license but had not yet started, also applied for and were given a license. Quite soon after word got out about GoBus getting a license First quickly launched a 17 times a day non stop service, by hiring in vehicles from Volvo to cover for vehicles they were expecting from First Cymru later that year when the service was originally supposed to launch.

The First service was a huge success and after a few months they were needing reliefs on some departures. At this point GoBus hadn't started and were facing an ominous task of an incumbent with a large number of passengers and the GoBus brand was unknown in Cork as at that point they had never served Cork at all. There was talk that they might not start at all.

However the Partnership with Bus Eireann made sense for both parties. It gave GoBus access to Bus Eireann's established customer base and their marketing team/budget and their bus station facilities, whilst allowing Bus Eireann to (kind of) take part in a non-stop market they were not going to get a license for as two operators already had bee them to it and they'd quite like to see Aircoach weakened.

First heavily outmaneuvered GoBus on commercial strategy in the first 18 months of GoBE operating who substantially cut their service back and raised their fares as they were losing a fortune. However about 18 months ago the person who masterminded this strategy left First to join Bus Eireann and this has seen GoBE revitalised with a much expanded timetable and much more competitive fare structure whereas First have gone backwards a little. Whilst First still operate a slightly more comprehensive service and still are the biggest operator on the route pretty slowly but surely the GoBe market share is increasing and the Firstone is decreasing a tiny bit.

GoBe is technically a GoBus service and when there was a Bus Eireann strike in the past, GoBE ran as normal (since none of the drivers worked for Bus Eireann) there was some incident where striking Bus Eireann staff tried to stop GoBus services leaving which many believe led to moving the services out of Bus Eireann locations.
 

F Great Eastern

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On the subject of Bus Eireann in general, one of their biggest problems is that up until a few years ago most of their management were people who had spent their whole time in the public sector or working in Bus Eireann or one of it's sister companies their whole life, so whilst they were generally good at running public service obligation services under contract from the Department for Transport or the NTA, they often tried to run their commercial services in the same way.

Part of the reason they didn't go for the non stop services on the intercity routes many believe is because they didn't want to shaft the people in the smaller towns en-route who would be missed out. At the time Bus Eireann also tended to cave in to any protests over changes to commercial routes which often meant that any decisions that were made on sound commercial footing were normally reversed. Whilst that in some respects is very commendable, and is exactly what you want to see on subsidised services, that strategy simply doesn't work in a commercial marketplace and leaves you vulnerable to operators who are more ruthless.

The one thing you have to give Bus Eireann credit for though is a couple of years ago they realised these issues and have recruited some of the best commercial brains in the business from the industry and now are very astute commercially and now run their commercial business under the Expressway brand like a true commercial business and I don't think you'll see the same mistakes again.
 
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Roilshead

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GoBus is a trading name is Evobus and Coach Ltd, licenses are listed under the legal name of the company rather than the name that they are trading as so that is why you cannot find it.
Thanks for your detailed response (I had searched under g, j, and b), much appreciated.
But it begs the questions: what are "gobus" now getting out of Bus Eireann's involvement?, how much are Bus Eireann taking out of the partnership (for not a lot of input - why, for example, don't they promote GoBE on their website?), and how long has the partnership got to last? given that "gobus" seem to be promoting it under their own brand.
 
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