Extensions of East-West Rail Past Oxford

[cle]

Yes there is a slightly quicker route to London for sure. Although 'the tube' from South Oxford is also competitive. But don't underestimate the draw of a one-seat ride.

But yes the MK direction might have greater demand, I genuinely don't know. But for Cowley, I think it'd be regular users - who probably come from within 30-50 miles, rather than long distance sporadic folks from the WCML or MML. With connections less important - even Bedford is not really in the TTW orbit. Maybe the odd Cambridge journey, one day.

So I would think they are from every angle, but close by - Kidlington, Didcot, Bicester, Cotswolds, Banbury, Wycombe...and the usual non-rail towns around Oxford too; Abingdon, Wantage, Witney, Thame of course... etc.

 

[jimm]

Cowley to London Marylebone is an odd choice.
There's not a lot of demand to places like High Wycombe/Bicester/Beaconsfield from south Oxford, and the few destinations out towards that way

Has it occurred to you that there might be demand TO South Oxford, from Bicester in particular, should trains on the branch be extensions of the Chiltern service?

There are a lot of businesses in that part of Oxford, not just the BMW Mini plant and - big clue - the proposed stations would be adjacent to Oxford Science Park and Oxford Business Park (and a retail park).

Prospective inbound traffic - and an associated reduction in commuting by car in and around Oxford - is a key element of the case for the project.

There is probably an argument to be made in this vein for some sort of peak shuttles off the Oxfordshire section of the Cotswold Line on to the branch - but that would likely require quadruple track between Oxford station and Kennington junction, doubling of the branch or a loop along it (and redoubling more of the Cotswold Line), and a grade-separated junction at Kennington on top.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Has it occurred to you that there might be demand TO South Oxford, from Bicester in particular, should trains on the branch be extensions of the Chiltern service?

There are a lot of businesses in that part of Oxford, not just the BMW Mini plant and - big clue - the proposed stations would be adjacent to Oxford Science Park and Oxford Business Park (and a retail park).

Prospective inbound traffic - and an associated reduction in commuting by car in and around Oxford - is a key element of the case for the project.

There is probably an argument to be made in this vein for some sort of peak shuttles off the Oxfordshire section of the Cotswold Line on to the branch - but that would likely require quadruple track between Oxford station and Kennington junction, doubling of the branch or a loop along it (and redoubling more of the Cotswold Line), and a grade-separated junction at Kennington on top.

Yep, it did occur to me, but the traffic won't be as heavy as to Oxford itself.
In any case, Bicester would have direct services on EWR from Bicester village itself, and everyone else has a same platform change at Bicester Village or Oxford Parkway.

Agreed on the peak shuttles, perhaps that could come 5 - 10 years after branch reopening - maybe we'll see an Oxford congestion charge levied to pay for it?

 

[Mr. Angry]

I am still thinking Swindon is part of the answer, Didcot does not quite have the connections that Swindon does. There are some discussions of how Swindon station could be modified to accommodate both an EWR terminator and potential Paddington suburban terminators.

Not what I'm hoping for but south Wales trains could stop at Didcot.

 

[jimm]

Yep, it did occur to me, but the traffic won't be as heavy as to Oxford itself.
In any case, Bicester would have direct services on EWR from Bicester village itself, and everyone else has a same platform change at Bicester Village or Oxford Parkway.

Agreed on the peak shuttles, perhaps that could come 5 - 10 years after branch reopening - maybe we'll see an Oxford congestion charge levied to pay for it?

From the point at which this project began to take shape it was talked of in terms of attracting people heading to south Oxford and Cowley out of their cars, whether they were changing in Oxford or arriving on direct services from the Bicester direction coming off the Chiltern route or EWR, or the Cotswold Line - rather less so when it came to what it might do for connectivity with places in Buckinghamshire. No wonder, when it would be a very long way round to/from south Oxford via Bicester compared with using the A40 and A418 or M40.

Unless someone is suddenly going to come up with lots of money to increase capacity by adding extra tracks much of the way between Oxford and Didcot, then projecting lots of EWR trains to/from Didcot and beyond is not going to be practical. Both they and Chiltern trains will need somewhere to turn back in the Oxford area for the foreseeable future, so sending some out to Cowley using time when they would otherwise just be sat in the station is an eminently sensible thing to do.

If GWR and county council could come up with a way to get the wires funded from Didcot to Oxford and out on the Cotswold Line to Hanborough, aided by some extra double track, so 387s could turn back there and boost service frequency at a location close to Witney and Eynsham, that's exactly what they would do, in preference to shunting them in and out of a siding at Oxford station. All a much more practical proposition than any new rail route, whether tram or train, to Witney.

 

[AlastairFraser]

From the point at which this project began to take shape it was talked of in terms of attracting people heading to south Oxford and Cowley out of their cars, whether they were changing in Oxford or arriving on direct services from the Bicester direction coming off the Chiltern route or EWR, or the Cotswold Line - rather less so when it came to what it might do for connectivity with places in Buckinghamshire. No wonder, when it would be a very long way round to/from south Oxford via Bicester compared with using the A40 and A418 or M40.

Unless someone is suddenly going to come up with lots of money to increase capacity by adding extra tracks much of the way between Oxford and Didcot, then projecting lots of EWR trains to/from Didcot and beyond is not going to be practical. Both they and Chiltern trains will need somewhere to turn back in the Oxford area for the foreseeable future, so sending some out to Cowley using time when they would otherwise just be sat in the station is an eminently sensible thing to do.

If GWR and county council could come up with a way to get the wires funded from Didcot to Oxford and out on the Cotswold Line to Hanborough, aided by some extra double track, so 387s could turn back there and boost service frequency at a location close to Witney and Eynsham, that's exactly what they would do, in preference to shunting them in and out of a siding at Oxford station. All a much more practical proposition than any new rail route, whether tram or train, to Witney.

Mostly agreed, but there isn't masses of parking or room for more parking at Hanborough and making that the permanent railhead for West Oxon isn't particularly easy to get to from Witney or Eynsham, and doesn't serve Carterton and beyond particularly well - Carterton is a growing town with a population of approaching 20k, plus you've got the military movements in and out of RAF Brize Norton.

Extending the wires to Banbury and replacing the stopper with a extended version of the Padd to Didcot semi fast stopper every hour and an added station at the northern end of Kidlington (serving as a railhead for Woodstock/Blenheim Palace as well) may be a fair medium-term idea though.

 

[jimm]

Mostly agreed, but there isn't masses of parking or room for more parking at Hanborough and making that the permanent railhead for West Oxon isn't particularly easy to get to from Witney or Eynsham, and doesn't serve Carterton and beyond particularly well - Carterton is a growing town with a population of approaching 20k, plus you've got the military movements in and out of RAF Brize Norton.

Extending the wires to Banbury and replacing the stopper with a extended version of the Padd to Didcot semi fast stopper every hour and an added station at the northern end of Kidlington (serving as a railhead for Woodstock/Blenheim Palace as well) may be a fair medium-term idea though.

Sorry, but there is an area of land to the south side of the station at Hanborough, set aside by developer that built the new housing there, specifically for provision of more car parking spaces (I recall that 400 was the figure mentioned during the planning process), and a station building - or GWR could adopt the Chiltern method on part of the existing main car park off the A4095 Main Road and add a second deck.

It isn't particularly easy to get to Hanborough from Eynsham or Witney? For crying out loud, it is little more than five minutes' drive from Eynsham and 15 minutes from Witney straight along the A-road - or under 25 minutes on the 233 bus.

So whether you like it or not, any improvements to rail services in West Oxfordshire for a very long time are going to be focused on developing Hanbrorugh as a railhead - unless you know where the magic money tree is to create a new railway to Witney and beyond.

Why on earth do you think there is a demand for an hourly stopper to Banbury? The GW stopping service was cut back the best of 20 years ago, in the wake of XC starting to run every 30 minutes between Oxford and Banbury, because that is the key flow in the area. Traffic at the intermediate stops is probably about as good as it will ever get now - and the paths that an hourly stopper would eat up - never mind adding another station to serve one corner of Kidlington - are needed to accommodate the increased number of container trains to and from Southampton that run these days.

 

[JamesT]

Why on earth do you think there is a demand for an hourly stopper to Banbury? The GW stopping service was cut back the best of 20 years ago, in the wake of XC starting to run every 30 minutes between Oxford and Banbury, because that is the key flow in the area. Traffic at the intermediate stops is probably about as good as it will ever get now - and the paths that an hourly stopper would eat up - never mind adding another station to serve one corner of Kidlington - are needed to accommodate the increased number of container trains to and from Southampton that run these days.

I suspect many of the calls for GWR trains to Banbury would be alleviated if XC actually ran 2tph. The Newcastle - Reading has pretty much disappeared entirely so it’s only 1tph.

 

[fishwomp]

Why on earth do you think there is a demand for an hourly stopper to Banbury? The GW stopping service was cut back the best of 20 years ago, in the wake of XC starting to run every 30 minutes between Oxford and Banbury, because that is the key flow in the area. Traffic at the intermediate stops is probably about as good as it will ever get now - and the paths that an hourly stopper would eat up - never mind adding another station to serve one corner of Kidlington - are needed to accommodate the increased number of container trains to and from Southampton that run these days.

Because there is no 30 min service on XC now. A Banbury connector would at least let you join the Chiltern to Birmingham. At the moment, Oxford and Reading to Brum is shocking, XC is broken for me: the NE-SW service gets to Brum after the NW-SE has left, meaning a 1 hour wait there for Oxford, Reading and Banbury services for anyone from Derby, Yorkshire and North East.

 

[cle]

This really is when Chiltern should jump in with Oxford - Moor St. Would cover the Oxford-B'ham and Banbury flows nicely. Could interwork with Marylebone services too, if needed - platform-wise.

 

[Falcon1200]

I would prefer XC to restore the 2 trains per hour between Reading and Birmingham, but as this seems unlikely, at the moment anyway, an hourly Chiltern service between Oxford and Birmingham Moor St or Snow Hill, using (mostly) the vacant XC paths, would be of great benefit.

 

[The Planner]

I would prefer XC to restore the 2 trains per hour between Reading and Birmingham, but as this seems unlikely, at the moment anyway, an hourly Chiltern service between Oxford and Birmingham Moor St or Snow Hill, using (mostly) the vacant XC paths, would be of great benefit.

XC restoring is more likely than Chiltern doing anything.

 

[cle]

I think the Chiltern original plan was to be incremental to the XC. Or competitive. And better suited for the short journeys. Appreciate now the situation is quite different.

I believe, idea being - it would enable the provision of a faster service to Solihull also, if that XC was ever successful redirected via Coventry. Once upon a time, it called there.

 

[Mgameing123]

An interesting connection idea would be East West Rail to Gatwick Airport. Although I don't really think its a good idea it would be interesting to make an orbital service around London.

The current timetable plan for Phase 1 of East-West rail envisages 2ph from Milton Keynes to Oxford. Currently these are planned to terminate at Oxford but I wonder if there would be value in extending them eastwards? Would it be feasible to extend both services to Swindon? From there, 1ph could go to Bristol via Bath and 1ph to Cardiff.

This would extend the benefits of East-West Rail to a much larger catchment area. New services to Oxford from the west would be particularly valuable, avoiding the current need to change at Didcot. Capacity of the great western mainline could be an issue, but west of Didcot the line is less constrained.

They could use this service to reopen Royal Wotton Bassett station.

 

[mwmbwls]

Page 17 of the February issue of Modern Railways carries a report that Great Western are proposing to run two trains on a Saturday from Bristol to Oxford from September 2024.

 

[swt_passenger]

Page 17 of the February issue of Modern Railways carries a report that Great Western are proposing to run two trains on a Saturday from Bristol to Oxford from September 2024.

Was already discussed in this thread, post #73 quoted the track access application.

I would prefer XC to restore the 2 trains per hour between Reading and Birmingham, but as this seems unlikely, at the moment anyway, an hourly Chiltern service between Oxford and Birmingham Moor St or Snow Hill, using (mostly) the vacant XC paths, would be of great benefit.

It is planned to reinstate 2 tph “most hours” for June 2025, it’s all in the latest XC track access application. 12 extra services per day, presumably 6 returns. This news appeared a couple of weeks back but might have been missed.