Face coverings to become mandatory in shops in England (includes poll)

[hst43102]

Has the government lost its mind? Face masks are compulsory in shops and trains/buses but not on planes or in pubs or at events? Why is this introduced when cases are lower than March? WHY???

 

[bramling]

Funny you should say that, mnay dicussions here tonight, most have said they will go back to online shopping, there is nothing in the High Street that 'we can't get online....and send it back if we don't like it' it will, I forsee, see the end of more stores on the high street. However if it means, .... ending the stupidity of SD and lining up outside Tesco's like school children, then that maybe a v. small plus point !

This could prove the final nail in the coffin for the high street. The last thing needed is to make it any more disappealing than it’s already become.

I’m not sure it will mark the end of the queuing - the scientists seem to have hinted that anything involving masks is not a substitute for social distancing, and the last couple of weeks have seen a conspicuous improvement in the queue situation at many places. Both my local Tesco and B&Q don’t seem to be bothering at all with that now - B&Q having been one of the worst for long queues at one point.

No doubt the reduction in the numbers of people on furlough and increase in availability of things to do means there isn’t the “artificial all-day demand” seen over the last few months; indeed we went round some shops today and many had a feeling of quietness about them, even for a weekday daytime. Likewise my two evening walks over this weekend saw footfall down to refreshingly normal levels, for the first time since the lockdown came in - the same walk even a month ago was like a human motorway in places.

Now where do we go from here? Masks in any enclosed public space? That will really help ailing businesses re-open. There’s no way I would, for example, go round a museum or stately home in a mask. Thankfully most of my leisure pursuits are outdoors.

 

[BJames]

Sadly that seems to hit the nail well and truly on the head. His communications through this have been utterly dire, from start to finish. Indeed so has his visibility - even allowing for the time in intensive care (how many other national leaders managed to contract Covid themselves?) it has felt like he’s leading the nation from a bunker.

Just in the last week BJ seemed more interested in trying to blame care home owners and stirring up a row over driverless trains than meaningfully leading a nation through a crisis.

I find his attitude throughout this to be appalling. Just need to watch an exchange at PMQs to see he's not on top of things in the way a Prime Minster should be.

But I digress. I can't understand how the government has such a confused message that Johnson said the day before yesterday that we "might" make them mandatory, Gove said "not mandatory, no" and then Buckland jumped back to "may need to be mandatory". And suddenly "Gove may have misspoken" and agrees in private.

I have to say I'm disappointed but not really surprised. I will continue essential shopping as usual but transfer my non-essential activities to online, or complete as much as possible in the next week.

 

[Scrotnig]

So after killing off public transport, using face coverings to make sure it's used for "essential travel only" for the indefinite future, they've now confirmed they want to kill off the high street for all except "essential shopping" for the indefinite future as well. Next they'll be required outdoors too of course (the BBC report I just heard was already making preparations to angle us in that direction). Then, in cars, once they discover the only way to get people back onto public transport is to make private transport equally unpleasant to use, and finally in people's homes too because, well, if you've to wear them everywhere else, why not?

Don't laugh. There was a report the other week recommending mandatory masks in the home.

 

[BJames]

Has the government lost its mind? Face masks are compulsory in shops and trains/buses but not on planes or in pubs or at events? Why is this introduced when cases are lower than March? WHY???

I think there's a bit of a clear reason why they can't be compulsory in pubs don't you think...?

 

[BJames]

Don't laugh. There was a report the other week recommending mandatory masks in the home.

Maybe this is what's needed to push some sense into some people. Even the biggest mask fanatic wouldn't be able to justify that.

 

[bramling]

I find his attitude throughout this to be appalling. Just need to watch an exchange at PMQs to see he's not on top of things in the way a Prime Minster should be.

But I digress. I can't understand how the government has such a confused message that Johnson said the day before yesterday that we "might" make them mandatory, Gove said "not mandatory, no" and then Buckland jumped back to "may need to be mandatory". And suddenly "Gove may have misspoken" and agrees in private.

I have to say I'm disappointed but not really surprised. I will continue essential shopping as usual but transfer my non-essential activities to online, or complete as much as possible in the next week.

I wonder if there’s scope for a “it is time for Johnson to be replaced” thread?!

 

[hst43102]

I think there's a bit of a clear reason why they can't be compulsory in pubs don't you think...?

If the risk of contracting the disease is so high, why are pubs open? If there's a low enough risk to open pubs, why are face masks compulsory?

I'm a conservative but I really can't say this government has handled the last few months very well at all.

 

[johntea]

This will set back the big retailers and absolutely cripple the independent ones (I read earlier one trader took just £1.20 recently in a whole day due to selling a bottle of water to a customer who simply wanted to use their toilet!)

Mixed messaging as usual too, so I have to wear a face covering on the train to Leeds, but then don't have to wear one walking around the station when I get to Leeds (despite what some people may think!), but then have to wear one again to visit the Sainsburys in the station but then don't have to wear one when I go to McDonalds directly opposite Sainsburys, ARGH!

 

[trebor79]

Oh well, once a week Tesco it is then, and everything else will be online. Unless I can make myself exempt
This will be terminal for the high street and market towns, and pointlessly so. How very sad.

Really makes my blood boil. What an absolute travesty.

Don't laugh. There was a report the other week recommending mandatory masks in the home.

Yeah, that's about as sensible as the "you can have people round, but stay 2m apart".

 

[BJames]

If the risk of contracting the disease is so high, why are pubs open? If there's a low enough risk to open pubs, why are face masks compulsory?

I'm a conservative but I really can't say this government has handled the last few months very well at all.

Not saying that they have. I'm saying that there's an obvious reason why people can't wear masks in pubs. Should they be open? Depends on:

1. Can the government afford to keep paying them to stay shut?
2. Is the risk too great?

I think the answer to both is probably no to be honest. If the risk is too high I suspect they really will be closed again - although more likely on a local scale rather than nationally now. I went to a restuarant today, was a very pleasant experience and other than staff wearing masks there was no difference. I have no problem with staff wearing masks in pubs and restaurants if they wish, I just think it's somewhat of an obstruction to eating and drinking...

 

[Jayden99]

I don't know, despite a lot of the comments on here (you lot make a very interesting contrast to my Facebook feed, you're the mirror very vocal minority ) If the railways are anything to go by even if people aren't necessarily thrilled by mandated face coverings, they'll wear one regardless and deal with it, at least from looking at the upward trend in passenger numbers. I don't see why it would be any different for shops, if people want to shop then they're going to do it, masks or no masks.

 

[trebor79]

If I ran a shop I'd be installing a few tables and a kettle in one corner. No masks needed in my cafe that also happens to sell shoes or whatever...

 

[BJames]

I don't know, despite a lot of the comments on here (you lot make a very interesting contrast to my Facebook feed, you're the mirror very vocal minority ) If the railways are anything to go by even if people aren't necessarily thrilled by mandated face coverings, they'll wear one regardless and deal with it, at least from looking at the upward trend in passenger numbers. I don't see why it would be any different for shops, if people want to shop then they're going to do it, masks or no masks.

I still maintain that this is the case for essential shopping, but does anyone really want to spend hours in a shopping centre with a mask on? I can't see that being a "choice" that a lot of people want to take, especially those that are incredibly concerned about the virus anyway - they'll already be at home.

 

[hst43102]

Also note that the new rules only come into play from the 24th. If it was so necessary to save lives, why isn't it implemented now?

Saving Lives and Staying Alert or political point scoring to put England on the same plane as Scotland and Wales?

 

[BJames]

Also note that the new rules only come into play from the 24th. If it was so necessary to save lives, why isn't it implemented now?

Saving Lives and Staying Alert or political point scoring to put England on the same plane as Scotland and Wales?

No.10 said something about needing the time to change legislation. Bit peculiar to be honest, I'm sure they could change it much faster if they wanted to.

 

[bramling]

I don't know, despite a lot of the comments on here (you lot make a very interesting contrast to my Facebook feed, you're the mirror very vocal minority ) If the railways are anything to go by even if people aren't necessarily thrilled by mandated face coverings, they'll wear one regardless and deal with it, at least from looking at the upward trend in passenger numbers. I don't see why it would be any different for shops, if people want to shop then they're going to do it, masks or no masks.

I’m not sure the comparison holds. Most people are travelling by train because they need to get somewhere, there’s still very little leisure use going on, although the boundaries have pushed out a bit. A lot of people are still presumably either not travelling at all or choosing to go by car. Likewise it’s not difficult to simply not bother with a mask on a train - enforcement is virtually zero, all the more so on DOO trains where there’s no staff presence at all.

Shops are a different matter. They’re already playing second fiddle to online, with the latter already having benefits like avoiding the risk of driving all the way to the shop to find what you’re after is out of stock. This process has already been accelerated by lockdown changing habits. I think this is a very dangerous moment for the high street.

 

[Scrotnig]

Well, no shops for me then. Will be click and collect only.

A shame as I'd been mostly using small independent shops and farm shops since this began, but as none of them offer click and collect or delivery, I will have to go back to the big supermarkets, who do.

 

[185143]

I will not comply. Simple as that.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Something tells me that the percentage of the population with asthma is about to skyrocket, and not because of the additional pollution caused by the ostracisation of public transport...

This is a populistic political move pandering to the locktivists and fearmongerers that, like the quarantine measures introduced at the beginning of June, isn't even remotely related to what is scientifically justifiable.

I would never have considered online shopping before for groceries, on the grounds that it's bad for the environment, expensive, inconvenient and a waste of time. I will now see which supermarkets have slots available.

 

[Scrotnig]

I’m not sure the comparison holds. Most people are travelling by train because they need to get somewhere, there’s still very little leisure use going on, although the boundaries have pushed out a bit. A lot of people are still presumably either not travelling at all or choosing to go by car. Likewise it’s not difficult to simply not bother with a mask on a train - enforcement is virtually zero, all the more so on DOO trains where there’s no staff presence at all.

Shops are a different matter. They’re already playing second fiddle to online, with the latter already having benefits like avoiding the risk of driving all the way to the shop to find what you’re after is out of stock. This process has already been accelerated by lockdown changing habits. I think this is a very dangerous moment for the high street.

It's not just dangerous for the high street. It's over. The government have decided it's time for high street shops to close down and go away.

 

[BJames]

I’m not sure the comparison holds. Most people are travelling by train because they need to get somewhere, there’s still very little leisure use going on, although the boundaries have pushed out a bit. A lot of people are still presumably either not travelling at all or choosing to go by car. Likewise it’s not difficult to simply not bother with a mask on a train - enforcement is virtually zero, all the more so on DOO trains where there’s no staff presence at all.

Shops are a different matter. They’re already playing second fiddle to online, with the latter already having benefits like avoiding the risk of driving all the way to the shop to find what you’re after is out of stock. This process has already been accelerated by lockdown changing habits. I think this is a very dangerous moment for the high street.

I agree with this completely. I don't see how the high street will be able to survive in the same way, I really do think people are going to be put off by this. I suspect it may end up more down the "entertainment" route (i.e. things that can't be done online, coffee shops, barbers, games stores, restaurants etc) and that other shops may be concentrated in shopping centres. Cut costs back as far as possible and get people to spend money all in the same place when they can.

I must say there's probably a greater percentage of people on here saying they won't comply than I've heard in other circles, but others are deciding they just won't go to non-essential shops if this was implemented. I suspect that will be the case quite widely.

 

[mmh]

I’m not sure it will mark the end of the queuing - the scientist seem to have hinted that anything involving masks is not a substitute for social distancing, and the last couple of weeks have seen a conspicuous improvement in the queue situation at many places. Both my local Tesco and B&Q don’t seem to be bothering at all with that now - B&Q having been one of the worst.

I'm reluctant to see if B&Q has become a less unpleasant place to shop after an awful visit shortly after our local one reopened. Half an hour to get around a one way system which forced you to traverse the whole store, with forced trolleys, to buy a hinge and a drill bit. Or rather not buy, when I was told I couldn't pay cash I walked out.

I wonder if enforced masks will actually make queuing worse. Once officially sanctioned, the current mask wearers will feel empowered and may act with ever increasing bonkersness, defending their patch of floor.

 

[BJames]

I'm reluctant to see if B&Q has become a less unpleasant place to shop after an awful visit shortly after our local one reopened. Half an hour to get around a one way system which forced you to traverse the whole store, with forced trolleys, to buy a hinge and a drill bit. Or rather not buy, when I was told I couldn't pay cash I walked out.

I wonder if enforced masks will actually make queuing worse. Once officially sanctioned, the current mask wearers will feel empowered and may act with ever increasing bonkersness, defending their patch of floor.

I didn't find B&Q too bad to be honest. The one way systems were largely ignored in mine which suited me perfectly. And I very much hope the queues don't get worse, they seem to have rectified themselves over the last few weeks.

 

[NorthOxonian]

What worries me most is the fact there isn't a clear end date. How many months or years will they drag this on for? It seems like with this government, the media say jump and the government just say how high.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Also note that the new rules only come into play from the 24th. If it was so necessary to save lives, why isn't it implemented now?

It's almost as though Johnson is a lame duck PM who's terrified of Sturgeon making him look bad.

I must say there's probably a greater percentage of people on here saying they won't comply than I've heard in other circles, but others are deciding they just won't go to non-essential shops if this was implemented. I suspect that will be the case quite widely.

Most people will comply, as most people want an easy life. But they'll comply by staying at home, just as they're complying with the public transport rules by driving a private car instead.

The boss of Transdev Yorkshire has said his company's bus usage is at 30% of normal. I wonder why?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

What worries me most is the fact there isn't a clear end date. How many months or years will they drag this on for? It seems like with this government, the media say jump and the government just say how high.

Yep, exactly. All these measures need to have a defined end point referenced to the number of cases, infections, R value etc. Simply saying "until further notice" belies the fact that if we were able to overcome the pandemic despite masks being a rarity at the height of 'lockdown', we certainly don't need them now.

 

[hst43102]

It's almost as though Johnson is a lame duck PM who's terrified of Sturgeon making him look bad.

Last year, if anyone had told me Sturgeon was making the PM look bad I wouldn't have believed it!
What a sorry bunch of politicians we have at the moment.

 

[bramling]

It's not just dangerous for the high street. It's over. The government have decided it's time for high street shops to close down and go away.

Not just the high street. Just taking my own immediate family. We’ve cancelled no fewer than three UK holidays since March, two directly due to lockdown, and one now simply because we judged it would be more hassle than it’s worth in the current topsy-turvy atmosphere. With the good April weather we’d have probably managed a fourth mini-break. As well as the hotels that’s about 35-40 nights worth of eating out, buying souvenirs and the like from local businesses, visiting attractions (although our main activity is outdoor activities we do tend to visit things along the way), grabbing a bite in cafes, the odd preserved railway or two, as well as mundane stuff like car parks. As it is we haven’t done any of the above since March, and even before that very little since last November.

We don’t seem to be getting a decent summer this year weather wise, so the prospect for UK businesses in all honesty looks pretty grim.

 

[furlong]

You can see the twisted focus-group logic behind it - coax people out of their shielding at the end of the month by showing them it is now "safe" because everyone is wearing masks. Only the reality is that masks will merely undermine the 'end of shielding' and embed more deeply the "stay at home" message - those people aren't going to be coaxed into going out by this. But perhaps that's what the government wants? To say publicly it's OK to go out again and things are getting back to normal, while really still wanting people to stay at home.