Fake ticket

[Mark007]

Someone sold me a fake ticket on the train, now the train company sent me a letter asking for my side of the story. Has anyone experienced anything like this? I'm confused

 

[yorkie]

Was this person impersonating a member of staff?

If it was obvious they were not an agent of the railway then you don't really have any valid defence.

 

[KeithP]

There is a little bit more information here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6024769

 

[cuccir]

We'll need a little more information as to what hppened to give good advice. What station did you board at (and at roughly what time)? Was there an open ticket office or ticket machine at that station?

And most importantly: did the person who sold you the ticket pretend to be a representative of the train company? Or did they say that they were a member of the public who happened to have a ticket to sell?

 

[30907]

Presumably the OP has had their ticket checked and it was found to be a forgery? What offence are they being accused of?

 

[Haywain]

Going by the post on the MSE forum it was a monthly season, so looks a little more serious than a simple one day ticket.

 

[Mark007]

I met him on the train he said they are given monthly train tickets at his workplace but since some of his colleagues drive they have no use for the ticket it looked completely genuine and I foolishly believed him and bought it off him. What kind of offence is this? I work for the government and this could potentially ruin my career. I have to reply the letter and give my account of what happened I'm so confused I dont want to go to court and be prosecuted any advice would be helpful

 

[yorkie]

Was this a Travelcard by any chance? Fake paper Travelcards have been a problem for years. Some of the better ones actually work gatelines. But there is always some sort of mistake on them which means they can be detected as fakes.

There is information here regarding what legislation they may use to prosecute you under: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ing-guide-section-8-legal.71833/#post-1208486

We don't know what Train Company it is, we don't know details of the journey, we do not know what conversations took place, so if this information is not going to be made available to us, we cannot give meaningful advice.

 

[Flying Snail]

I met him on the train he said they are given monthly train tickets at his workplace but since some of his colleagues drive they have no use for the ticket it looked completely genuine and I foolishly believed him and bought it off him. What kind of offence is this? I work for the government and this could potentially ruin my career. I have to reply the letter and give my account of what happened I'm so confused I dont want to go to court and be prosecuted any advice would be helpful

Using a forged ticket is both a slam-dunk case and one more likely to be considered out of the scope of offering a out of court settlement, it is really up to the TOC to decide but to be honest I cannot see your excuse doing much to help, even in the unlikely event you could prove you were a duped fool rather than a calculating criminal.

If you give some more details the experts here may be able to tell you the likelihood of the response from the train company.

What train company were you travelling on when you were caught?
What exactly was the ticket?
How long had you been using it for/ how long had it been valid for before you were caught?
What are the TOC alleging and what legislation are they quoting for prosecution?

 

[big all]

we have all given in to temptation although working full time close to destitution and fairly desperate me included
i dont tend to pass judgment and this case i wont but iff it makes your life easier there will tend to be a value and cost judgement to an action
if your job involves any sort off honesty or moral judgment then you must have higher moral standards or take the risk you will be caught out

 

[furlong]

But in one sense you might also be considered a victim of the scam as well as the company, and it might be continuing with many other victims, so if you co-operate and can give the company and police any information that might help them catch the person who tricked you, then they might treat you more leniently. For example, where might there still be CCTV with the person's image on it? Give them a witness statement - when and where it happened, a description of the person etc. and any clues that might help them track the person down. Also think whether there is anything the train company could have done differently which would have made you realise it wasn't legitimate, and if so, make suggestions about things the company might change.

 

[Mark007]

Should I report to the police?

 

[Typhoon]

Should I report to the police?

The above respondents are experts and their opinions are worth much more than mine but my gut feel is

YES ​

if for no other reason that the scrote who sold it to you needs dealing with before he puts others in the same position as you. (See post #11)

 

[cuccir]

I would also report this to the police.

Did you pay full whack for your ticket or at a cost less than the face value?

There's two pieces of railway related law they could try and prosecute you under. There's the railway bylaws and the Regulation of the Railways Act (RORA). The main difference is that the Bylaws are 'strict liability' - if you don't have a valid ticket, you can be found guilty, regardless of the reason. For a RORA prosecution the train company (TOC) would need to prove intent to avoid a fare. The Bylaws do not create a criminal record in the conventional sense - they don't appear on DBS checks - but they still need declaring for a year. RORA convictions have higher fines and do appear on DBS checks; again the norm would be that they are spent after a year.

If you paid at the full price, then it'd be hard for the TOC to prove intent to avoid a fare. If you paid less than the face value however then I suspect that they could make a case against you. Also note that in writing to you, the TOC is looking to gather evidence against you for these prosecutions. This includes the possibility that you might be the originator of the fraudulent ticket - which is why I'd suggest reporting this to the police, to try and remove any suspicion that you made the ticket.

How exactly to respond to the letter depends on the full details as to what happened. As others have said it would really help to know the train company, type of ticket, time of day, how long you'd been using it, details of any conversations and boarding station for us to advise you properly.

Finally - if you think that a conviction might impact on your work I'd strongly advise talking to a union rep confidentially as soon as possible.

 

[Typhoon]

If you paid at the full price, then it'd be hard for the TOC to prove intent to avoid a fare. If you paid less than the face value however then I suspect that they could make a case against you. Also note that in writing to you, the TOC is looking to gather evidence against you for these prosecutions. This includes the possibility that you might be the originator of the fraudulent ticket - which is why I'd suggest reporting this to the police, to try and remove any suspicion that you made the ticket..

I would go further than that. @Mark007, if you fail to do so you are leaving yourself open to questioning from the TOC, the police, prosecutors as to why you didn't with the suggestion that you knew it was fake, or worse. From the facts given you are a victim of a crime, that doesn't stop you being a perpetrator here but might help your case. Admitting acting foolishly is not usually a pleasant experience but is likely to be treated more sympathetically than acting criminally, especially if you make every effort to help the police (detailed description of the person who sold it to you, full details of journey undertaken, carriage, anything you can remember, details of company, anything).

Finally - if you think that a conviction might impact on your work I'd strongly advise talking to a union rep confidentially as soon as possible.

Absolutely, that is specialist staff - and that is what you pay your dues for.​

 

[AlterEgo]

A key fact here will be how much the OP paid for the fake ticket, and what the face value was.

 

[Belperpete]

Should I report to the police?

I would suggest reporting it to British Transport Police (who deal with railway matters) rather than your local police station.
http://www.btp.police.uk/contact_us.aspx

 

[furlong]

Press articles about this sort of problem:
18 arrested in the UK and Romania for €20 million fake train ticket scam
Fraudsters selling fake train tickets for less than half price on Dark Web as probe proves they fool railway
£200m fake train ticket scam: We put season pass bought on dark web to the test at Britain's busiest station
IT expert sentenced for rail ticket forgery

 

[Belperpete]

Someone sold me a fake ticket on the train, now the train company sent me a letter asking for my side of the story. Has anyone experienced anything like this? I'm confused

It is NEVER a good idea to use someone else's ticket (whether you have been "loaned" it, given it, or sold it) without first making very sure that you are entitled to use that ticket. Even if the ticket had not been fake, many tickets are non-transferable, are only valid with a railcard, or have other restrictions on their use. If you use a ticket that you are not entitled to, then it will be you that gets into trouble, no matter what the person who gave you the ticket may have told you.

You haven't told us if you paid less than face value for the ticket, but I am assuming that you paid less than what you would normally pay, otherwise why would anyone buy a ticket in this way. It may have seemed a good deal at the time, but it was a very foolish thing to do. Regardless of whether or not the ticket was fake, it would appear that you were a willing participant in a scheme to defraud the railway company out of fares revenue. My recommendation would be to put your hands up to what you did, state that you have never done something so foolish before and never will again, and offer to pay the full cost of the ticket plus any reasonable admin fee, and hope the railway company let you off lightly. Anything you can do to help catch the person who sold you the ticket will help your case.

 

[yorkie]

At a guess it's probably a paper Travelcard, and a lot less than face value was paid for the ticket.

But if no further detail is forthcoming there is no further advice we can give; @Mark007 I have sent you a message asking if you can supply more information. If you can, I will re-open this thread.