Far North Line - Thurso branch

[crispy1978]

Been looking on RTT at the Far North Line (Inverness to Wick, via Thurso) over the past few days.

There have been a number of delays on the line, presumably caused by the weather. RTT seems to indicate if the train is >40 minutes late, it goes to Georgrmas Junction then continues up or down the line, and bypasses the Thurso branch - presumably RRB transport being utilised? Here is an example.

Is this a new thing, as I remember a couple of years ago being 90 mins late and we still went up the Thurso branch.

 

[CallySleeper]

The return (the 1600) also left 23L and 'bypassed' Thurso so it was effectively on time leaving Georgemas. As this is an Inverness crew I suspect it's done so that they can get sufficient break in.

 

[Quakkerillo]

Looking at the Scotrail Website, this was due to a fault with the signalling system. A bus was arranged to bring passengers from Thurso to Georgemas, as well as a bus from Wick to Thurso. So all passengers should've been able to get where they were. Similar procedures on the way to Thurso/Wick.

Maybe it's to do with crew times
Maybe it's to do with buses now being available, and not in your 90L example
Maybe it's because it also helps the public image
Maybe it's something else, but I'd say it's not a bad thing if all got where they had to be without getting extra delays.

 

[scotsman]

Looking at the Scotrail Website, this was due to a fault with the signalling system. A bus was arranged to bring passengers from Thurso to Georgemas, as well as a bus from Wick to Thurso. So all passengers should've been able to get where they were. Similar procedures on the way to Thurso/Wick.

Maybe it's to do with crew times
Maybe it's to do with buses now being available, and not in your 90L example
Maybe it's because it also helps the public image
Maybe it's something else, but I'd say it's not a bad thing if all got where they had to be without getting extra delays.

Maybe it's to do with the units being required on another service from Inverness afterwards?

 

[Quakkerillo]

Maybe it's to do with the units being required on another service from Inverness afterwards?

Not according to my information. It terminates at Inverness, and that's end of its shift for the day. RTT seems to say so as well. But feel free to correct me if it is wrong.

 

[scotsman]

Not according to my information. It terminates at Inverness, and that's end of its shift for the day. RTT seems to say so as well. But feel free to correct me if it is wrong.

Nope, just a suggestion.

 

[crispy1978]

Cheers - as I suspected. I know people up there who are reliant on the service and when I saw the delays and bypassing I wondered how they were getting on.

 

[Crossover]

That's the diagram I did Wick/Thurso on earlier this year - it was Inverness crewed with same guard and trolley lady (and presumably driver) for the entire journey in both directions, with a PNB at Wick. It is more than likely it was run "fast" to Wick to avoid further delaying the return journey (which is a connection to the last Glasgow plus once things are out of sync, it really knackers up the single line sections)

It looks like the northbound journey sat at Helmsdale for the best part of an hour with the train the other way not having any delay, which suggests it isn't weather related

 

[cf111]

It has been happening more and more recently. I can understand the reasoning behind it though which is as posted on here.

 

[geoffk]

"A bus was arranged to bring passengers from Thurso to Georgemas, as well as a bus from Wick to Thurso. So all passengers should've been able to get where they were".

Not so good for anyone who went all that way to cover all the track. But you'd probably wait until summer. This happened to me once trying to get to Pembroke Dock and getting a bus from Tenby.

 

[CallySleeper]

Not so good for anyone who went all that way to cover all the track. But you'd probably wait until summer. This happened to me once trying to get to Pembroke Dock and getting a bus from Tenby.

I was just going to make this point, having done it in the summer. I wouldn't be very happy to miss the branch having made the trip up from the south...

 

[NottsPhil]

Yes, I was up there in October and noted similar problems. It is also notable how much a small delay on a single line section can impact the service, particularly given the interworking needed south of Dingwall.

For example, the cause of many of today's problems appears to be a 10 minute delay at Georgemas on the first service out of Wick in the morning. This held up the first Down train at Lairg (where the crews swap), meaning this in turn then passed the second Up train at Brora instead of Helmsdale and ended up 38 late at Wick. I guess that as a different crew take it south they didn't have to worry about missing out Thurso as they could just shorten the turnround. However, the delay on that first Up train also blocked the single line into Inverness, meaning the 10.34 left 15 late, although why it then passed the 12.34 Up train at Helmsdale rather than Forsinard is unclear - maybe the fault with the signalling system prevented this?

When I travelled I used the 07.02 out/12.34 return and the 10.38 was similarly disrupted and we crossed at Helmsdale instead of Forsinard. In the end we were held at Ardgay for another late-running serivce so still ended up late into Inverness.

 

[me123]

Not so good for anyone who went all that way to cover all the track. But you'd probably wait until summer. This happened to me once trying to get to Pembroke Dock and getting a bus from Tenby.

I was just going to make this point, having done it in the summer. I wouldn't be very happy to miss the branch having made the trip up from the south...

I can appreciate that that would be incredibly frustrating. However, Scotrail are there to provide a transportation service, and not a track bashing service. In terms of their business aim, they have achieved what they set out to achieve. Passengers have been transported to their intended destination, and delays have been minimised on a whole. Delays on the FNL have the potential to knock of the service for the remainder of the day, so minimising them in this way is actually a very sensible idea. And, as has already been mentioned, missing a connection at Inverness will add a huge amount of journey time onto an already mammoth rail journey.

Their method of transporting passengers is, perhaps, not what they had intended, but they have made a decision that seems to be of net overall benefit to the majority of their customers. Track bashers are definitely a small minority of passengers.

 

[bradders1983]

I went to Wick last November and we went to Thurso on the last train of the day (1600!) to go to the cinema. We got the last train back and the train before it never even got to Thurso and just went straight to Wick where it terminated. So certainly nothing new.

 

[scotraildriver]

Looking at the Scotrail Website, this was due to a fault with the signalling system. A bus was arranged to bring passengers from Thurso to Georgemas, as well as a bus from Wick to Thurso. So all passengers should've been able to get where they were. Similar procedures on the way to Thurso/Wick.

Loss of Points set indicator and TPWS at Geogemas junction. Unit 158723 on one engine after hitting sheep en route.

 

[kevin5025]

The Far North Line has become very unreliable. Due to the single line at the south end (Dingwall to Inverness) delays can have quite an effect on other services. One response has been to miss Thurso to try and make up time. The timetable has also been padded a lot over the years so the journey keeps getting longer. See http://www.fofnl.org.uk/newsletters/14Oct/14oct10.html for examples of what is happening.

 

[berneyarms]

The Far North Line has become very unreliable. Due to the single line at the south end (Dingwall to Inverness) delays can have quite an effect on other services. One response has been to miss Thurso to try and make up time. The timetable has also been padded a lot over the years so the journey keeps getting longer. See http://www.fofnl.org.uk/newsletters/14Oct/14oct10.html for examples of what is happening.

Bear in mind that that link is over a year old - it's from 2014.

The current edition of the Friends of the Far North Line does have one piece of good news:

Two new drivers at Wick should complete training by December and this will hopefully put an end to the shortages which have caused cancellations over the past 18 months.

It's here:
http://www.fofnl.org.uk/newsletters/15Sep/15sep01.html

 

[kevin5025]

Bear in mind that that link is over a year old - it's from 2014.

The current edition of the Friends of the Far North Line does have one piece of good news:



It's here:
http://www.fofnl.org.uk/newsletters/15Sep/15sep01.html

Yes, that is a good point, the new drivers should help, a lot. Many of the delays have been down to staff shortages. However, padding of the timetable, and other issues remain, for now.

 

[dk1]

I too needed to do the whole route to tick it off at the same time as ticking the Wetherspoon in Wick. I am pleased to say the opening of a pub on Orkney has not been successful as no offence but the Far North line has to be one of the most boring & tedious. Only so many views of the hills, sheep & sea that you can be impressed with. The day I took the 10:38 after coming off the Sleeper the train did serve Thurso but the darn trolley staff failed to show

 

[70014IronDuke]

Bear in mind that that link is over a year old - it's from 2014.
...
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Yes. 2014 appears to have been pretty bad, what with the Commonwealth Games in the mix, but the latest reports on this very interesting site do not read much better.

 

[NottsPhil]

I am pleased to say the opening of a pub on Orkney has not been successful as no offence but the Far North line has to be one of the most boring & tedious. Only so many views of the hills, sheep & sea that you can be impressed with.

Couldn't disagree more. I think its a great ride which offers a lot of variety, with Forths, valleys, Highlands and coast. The only slightly dull bit IMO is beyond Forsinard up to Wick and Thurso where it returns to farmland. On my trip I remember looking at my watch and being surprised I'd be on there for two hours. Well, I enjoyed it anyway!

Interesting that the Friends of the FNL link makes reference to the 10.38 being held at Helmsdale to await the Up train and consequently being over an hour late and missing out the Thurso trip, which seemingly is what happened yesterday.

 

[Robertj21a]

I can't understand anyone saying it's boring and tedious. To me it's a wonderful line that we should encourage more people to use. Naturally, the same goes for all the other Highland lines.

 

[bradders1983]

I can't understand anyone saying it's boring and tedious. To me it's a wonderful line that we should encourage more people to use. Naturally, the same goes for all the other Highland lines.

Indeed, the bit between Forsinard and Helmsdale is absolutely stunning.

 

[SeanG]

Indeed, the bit between Forsinard and Helmsdale is absolutely stunning.

I echo that. I didn't know what to expect when I first went but it has everything - remoteness on the moors and then also some of the best (if not THE best) coastal railway in the UK

 

[cf111]

I echo that. I didn't know what to expect when I first went but it has everything - remoteness on the moors and then also some of the best (if not THE best) coastal railway in the UK

The only part of the journey I enjoy these days is when the train emerges next to the sea after calling at Helmsdale.

 

[Altnabreac]

Indeed, the bit between Forsinard and Helmsdale is absolutely stunning.

It is beautiful through the flow country.

Of course I think the best bit is just east of Forsinard...

 

[backontrack]

I love the line, personally. You've got the Beauly Firth views, the Dornoch Firth, the woods near Lairg, the sea at Brora (it's literally right on the shore), the Strath of Kildonan and the Forsinard Flows.

 

[bradders1983]

It is beautiful through the flow country.

Of course I think the best bit is just east of Forsinard...

I managed to get a post onto this forum whilst passing Altnabreac last November, which was a marvel of modern technology

 

[Altnabreac]

The Far North Line has become very unreliable. Due to the single line at the south end (Dingwall to Inverness) delays can have quite an effect on other services. One response has been to miss Thurso to try and make up time. The timetable has also been padded a lot over the years so the journey keeps getting longer. See http://www.fofnl.org.uk/newsletters/14Oct/14oct10.html for examples of what is happening.

Some good news in the draft Scotland Route Study. The 2 projects promoted by FoFNL have made it into the recommendations namely:
Resignalling away from RETB to a more conventional signalling solution for Inverness - Dingwall.
A new loop between Inverness and Dingwall.

Slightly opaque in the route study whether this is a fairly long section of double track / dynamic loop as proposed by FoFNL or just a passing loop at Lentran. Hopefully the former.

Additionally a new W-N Georgemas Chord has also made it into the study. This could be a very good journey time saving at the northern end of the line. No details given but ideally you would combine it with a new Halkirk station and closure of Scotscalder and Georgemas Junction stations for the full journey time benefits to be realised.

 

[bradders1983]

Are there any local populations who use Georgemas Junction though?

Never understood why they just dont run through to Wick first, before then reversing and going to Thurso. Would eliminate one reversal. Then again the staff are Wick based.