Fare evasion help!!!!!

[Kilopylae]

@Helloxdakaja, have you put together a response to Northern's letter yet, setting out the events that took place?

 

[WesternLancer]

That is very true, but if several of us are clearly concerned that the story doesn't ring true, it's no bad thing to tell the OP poster that, as I am sure the investigators will likely think the same way. I'd suggest that walking onto a different station and boarding a train without any discussion with station staff (at either station) about the position they are in would, if I were an investigator, remove any thought in my mind that the story was genuine. And if I thought I was not hearing the truth then I would not be inclined to adopt a more lenient approach in the way I might if I thought it was a genuine mistake, or if someone came clean with the true position and expressed remorse.

Yes, but if there is evidence of ticket purchase at time stated, and no great time spent in warrington and the time intercepted at Piccadilly it's hard to know what else the OP would have been taking the journey for (unless they want to sample a wider range of Northern's train services and rolling stock....)

As I've said above I think it's not unusual for some young people to consult nothing else but their phone for what to do when things go wrong!

 

[Helloxdakaja]

1.) I came to Manchester Victoria station purchased a ticket from Manchester Victoria to oxford road with the intent to travel directly to oxford road

2.) Set off around half 1 . I boarded the wrong train by mistake and as soon as I realised I got off and the stop I got off was at Warrington bank quay , then got the next train from Warrington central to take me back to Manchester as the train app instructed as there weren’t any more recent trains from Warrington bank quay I think. (thinking I’d go back to Manchester Victoria but ended up in picadilly)

3.) Arrived at picadilly thinking it was Victoria , went to get a new ticket from Victoria to oxford road in an attempt to start a fresh journey.

• Bought new ticket from Manchester Victoria to oxford road
• But I also bought one from Manchester oxford road to picadilly (this is the ticket I showed the inspector)
• I’ve now refunded both these tickets as I now know I didn’t need them, however I bought them both just before reaching the barriers so that’s why it may look like I’ve tried to dodge a fare when really I was just trying to show I had intentions of paying again for my whole journey!

4.) I showed my ticket to the inspector and he said it’s not the right one, he was being really rude to me there must have been a misunderstanding between us as he didn’t even know where I had come from as I never even got the chance to explain the situation at me getting off at Warrington
And I was being accused of fare evasion even though I had bought two additional tickets to show I’ve not tried to dodge any fares! I did buy the tickets just before I got to the barriers that’s why I can understand why it looked bad. And especially when I never even got to tell the story

5.) He took me to the side and was incredibly rude and straight away started threatening to get the police involved and saying that I’ll be going to court won’t be able to go on holiday etc. I have never felt so stressed in my entire life. My mum had just had a a big operation that day I was really upset hence why I didn’t cooperate well to the questions I was rudely being asked and needed to make an important phone call to make sure she was okay. I am not expecting sympathy but that is my reason for walking away then returning. I literally only walked away so I could deal with the family situation. So I walked away for 5 minutes to try and call on my phone.
I then returned back myself and talked to the police who were very polite. And then gave my details to the inspectors

6.) whilst I was giving my details the inspector continued to say things behind my back like I’m going to court and other threats like I won’t be able to get a job. yes that may be his job but I genuinely don’t know why there was a reason to be so rude towards me? I will admit I wasn’t speaking in a polite tone, I’ve been told that I was being ‘abusive’ I did not swear directly at the inspectors I was saying things to myself? Out of frustration and anger? I made a little comment to the inspector which wasn’t polite but I do not think that was abusive at all and included no vile language or swear words.
The inspector that day made a comment to me saying ‘you look like your from Bradford’ and it’s discriminative because he’s assuming I’m from a place where there is a high population density of Asians which is completely unfair and did not need to be mentioned? That made me feel really uncomfortable and targeted. That is why I was so angry. Being very upset and emotional already because of my mum on the same day, and going through this type of treatment from rail way staff. It just wasn’t great for me. That is my explanation for my tone of voice towards the inspectors.

I really do not think I was being abusive directly towards the inspectors they may have misunderstood, that I was actually just saying things to myself. If that makes sense?
Like I said before I made a rude comment which I deeply regret now and shouldn’t have.

My journey can be confirmed using CCTV footage that I infact did stop at Warrington bank Quay then got the train from Warrington central to Manchester.
I am not from Manchester, and I got the wrong train by mistake, the stations around Manchester confuse me.
When I arrived at Warrington I had no clue where I was and I was panicking that is why I decided to return back to the centre which I’m a little more familiar with.

I have evidence of all my tickets I’ve purchased . And I am happy for CCTV to be checked to prove my accidental journey to Warrington.

I deeply regret not cooperating well with the inspectors and speaking to them rudely. I have explained my reasons as to why I acted the way I did. It is still not acceptable, and I am very sorry to them. I would really like the opportunity to write them a personal apology letter if I could.

I have never committed a crime in my life, nor have I ever been in any sort of trouble. I am definitely not the type of person to ever argue with anyone in public or become loud and rowdy, I’m very much a quiet and well behaved person however that day was a bad one for me. I am really affected by those events and I do not think I will ever catch a train in Manchester again now.
I understand how serious a situation like this is, I work so hard at university and I am a dedicated student, if something like this were to go to court I would have to change my whole career path that I’ve been working so hard on as well as affecting me really badly mentally. It was a genuine mistake of me getting the wrong train, and my actions were unacceptable I accept that.
I would be happy to pay any fines of any price, as I really do not want to let a mistake like this affect my whole future.


Everything I said is true I just didn’t know weather to tell you guys all the info incase I could get in trouble or something? However that’s everything. Please give feedback

 

[Kilopylae]

As I've said above I think it's not unusual for some young people to consult nothing else but their phone for what to do when things go wrong!

I for one have never asked a member of staff what the fastest route from my origin to my destination is, but I've often asked Google Maps or N.R.E.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I notice the letter states that the incident was recorded at 1627 at Piccadilly, some 3 hours after you left Victoria. That would make the 1548 departure from Warrington Central, arrival into Piccadilly at 1611 the most likely train you used. I'm sure the investigators will pick up on the inconsistency with the account that you caught the first train back, so it might be useful to have a response to any query regarding that.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Yes it was the first available one , I could get though

 

[WesternLancer]

1.) I came to Manchester Victoria station purchased a ticket from Manchester Victoria to oxford road with the intent to travel directly to oxford road

2.) Set off around half 1 . I boarded the wrong train by mistake and as soon as I realised I got off and the stop I got off was at Warrington bank quay , then got the next train from Warrington central to take me back to Manchester as the train app instructed as there weren’t any more recent trains from Warrington bank quay I think. (thinking I’d go back to Manchester Victoria but ended up in picadilly)

3.) Arrived at picadilly thinking it was Victoria , went to get a new ticket from Victoria to oxford road in an attempt to start a fresh journey.

• Bought new ticket from Manchester Victoria to oxford road
• But I also bought one from Manchester oxford road to picadilly (this is the ticket I showed the inspector)
• I’ve now refunded both these tickets as I now know I didn’t need them, however I bought them both just before reaching the barriers so that’s why it may look like I’ve tried to dodge a fare when really I was just trying to show I had intentions of paying again for my whole journey!

4.) I showed my ticket to the inspector and he said it’s not the right one, he was being really rude to me there must have been a misunderstanding between us as he didn’t even know where I had come from as I never even got the chance to explain the situation at me getting off at Warrington
And I was being accused of fare evasion even though I had bought two additional tickets to show I’ve not tried to dodge any fares! I did buy the tickets just before I got to the barriers that’s why I can understand why it looked bad. And especially when I never even got to tell the story

5.) He took me to the side and was incredibly rude and straight away started threatening to get the police involved and saying that I’ll be going to court won’t be able to go on holiday etc. I have never felt so stressed in my entire life. My mum had just had a a big operation that day I was really upset hence why I didn’t cooperate well to the questions I was rudely being asked and needed to make an important phone call to make sure she was okay. I am not expecting sympathy but that is my reason for walking away then returning. I literally only walked away so I could deal with the family situation. So I walked away for 5 minutes to try and call on my phone.
I then returned back myself and talked to the police who were very polite. And then gave my details to the inspectors

6.) whilst I was giving my details the inspector continued to say things behind my back like I’m going to court and other threats like I won’t be able to get a job. yes that may be his job but I genuinely don’t know why there was a reason to be so rude towards me? I will admit I wasn’t speaking in a polite tone, I’ve been told that I was being ‘abusive’ I did not swear directly at the inspectors I was saying things to myself? Out of frustration and anger? I made a little comment to the inspector which wasn’t polite but I do not think that was abusive at all and included no vile language or swear words.
The inspector that day made a comment to me saying ‘you look like your from Bradford’ and it’s discriminative because he’s assuming I’m from a place where there is a high population density of Asians which is completely unfair and did not need to be mentioned? That made me feel really uncomfortable and targeted. That is why I was so angry. Being very upset and emotional already because of my mum on the same day, and going through this type of treatment from rail way staff. It just wasn’t great for me. That is my explanation for my tone of voice towards the inspectors.

I really do not think I was being abusive directly towards the inspectors they may have misunderstood, that I was actually just saying things to myself. If that makes sense?
Like I said before I made a rude comment which I deeply regret now and shouldn’t have.

My journey can be confirmed using CCTV footage that I infact did stop at Warrington bank Quay then got the train from Warrington central to Manchester.
I am not from Manchester, and I got the wrong train by mistake, the stations around Manchester confuse me.
When I arrived at Warrington I had no clue where I was and I was panicking that is why I decided to return back to the centre which I’m a little more familiar with.

I have evidence of all my tickets I’ve purchased . And I am happy for CCTV to be checked to prove my accidental journey to Warrington.

I deeply regret not cooperating well with the inspectors and speaking to them rudely. I have explained my reasons as to why I acted the way I did. It is still not acceptable, and I am very sorry to them. I would really like the opportunity to write them a personal apology letter if I could.

I have never committed a crime in my life, nor have I ever been in any sort of trouble. I am definitely not the type of person to ever argue with anyone in public or become loud and rowdy, I’m very much a quiet and well behaved person however that day was a bad one for me. I am really affected by those events and I do not think I will ever catch a train in Manchester again now.
I understand how serious a situation like this is, I work so hard at university and I am a dedicated student, if something like this were to go to court I would have to change my whole career path that I’ve been working so hard on as well as affecting me really badly mentally. It was a genuine mistake of me getting the wrong train, and my actions were unacceptable I accept that.
I would be happy to pay any fines of any price, as I really do not want to let a mistake like this affect my whole future.


Everything I said is true I just didn’t know weather to tell you guys all the info incase I could get in trouble or something? However that’s everything. Please give feedback

If possible edit this down to make it shorter.

I don't think you need to go into all the detail about the rudeness of the inspector and the nature of your response to that or reasons why you may have been anxious ref your mum's health. You are not being asked about it by the people who have written to you so don't get into that side of things. See my suggestion above where it is just dealt with in one line.

They are also unlikely to be interested in how hard you work at University, whether you will ever use their trains again etc

And I would not offer to pay 'any fines of any price' since actually you wouldn't would you, if say they asked you for a £10k payment (not that they will fine you say £10k because there is a fine structure anyway, as implemented by the court not the railway).

PS - I should add that your draft is a very good start, just if you can make it shorter more likely they will read it all

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Thank you for the advice really appreciate it!
but I only wrote the career thing because the lawyer advised me to write how much it would affect my career?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the advice really appreciate it!
but I only wrote the career thing because the lawyer advised me to write how much it would affect my career?

Well I'm not a lawyer, so maybe it is worth saying in that final para if they advised it. The problem with that is that in a way it points towards the idea that you were guilty of travelling without a valid ticket and you want that to be mitigated or 'let off' but in fact your situation is that you made an error by getting on the wrong train and court action is a disproportionate action for them to take against you as a result of that error. Maybe the strict letter of the regs means you were guilty of that, but you had never intended to be on the trains concerned in the first place.

If you can find the words to strike a balance over that it may be better, but maybe the final para is fair enough.

I do think you need to focus the emphasis of your letter on the genuine error you made getting on the wrong train, not talk about the rudeness of their staff etc, beyond a brief apology.

By the way, as a student your Students Union advice office may also be able to help on all this - though I note you have of course already had some legal advice so you'd have to see if they could do more than that at this stage.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

but do you think I should mention that my looks were mentioned by the inspector? Explaining why I was rude as I’m being accused of abuse which is an offence
Also thank you so much for all this lovely advice thank you everyone who knew strangers could be this kind and helpful

 

[WesternLancer]

but do you think I should mention that my looks were mentioned by the inspector? Explaining why I was rude as I’m being accused of abuse which is an offence
Also thank you so much for all this lovely advice thank you everyone who knew strangers could be this kind and helpful

Just don't get into the whole nature of the discussion with the inspector - it's not the key issue. They are accusing you of fare dodging, not (at this time) being rude to the inspector. If you want to pursue the inspector's behavior you need to do that separately, with customer services and not as part of this. I would very strongly advise you to consider that you do that after you have resolved the matter of the fare evasion penalty.

see my post #57 - just deal with that very briefly eg

"I then thought I should buy a new ticket to start my journey again, and it was at this point that I was questioned by a member of staff who did not appear to believe my story. This was frustrating and I lost my temper somewhat, and I should apologise for that.

At no time did I intend to travel without a ticket, it is simply that I ended up on the wrong train and needed to correct my mistake."

I'm sorry if you feel this does not then address what you indicate was some racial stereotyping etc but if the prosecutions department pursue this to prosecution (which you do not want to happen obviously), it will not weigh on if you are guilty / not guilty in that case so I suspect they will just ignore it now. That is my view (though of course I very much sympathize with you over that).

 

[Helloxdakaja]

But the letter I received say I’ve committed an offence in the rail way bye laws which is where you can’t abuse staff, that’s why I thought it would be best to explain that? Or no? And okay I’ll put what you said in and re do it thank you sooo much I will keep you updated !

 

[WesternLancer]

But the letter I received say I’ve committed an offence in the rail way bye laws which is where you can’t abuse staff, that’s why I thought it would be best to explain that? Or no? And okay I’ll put what you said in and re do it thank you sooo much I will keep you updated !

My sincere apols if I misunderstood - if it says that then you should indeed address it - however, I based my assumption on the image of the letter you have posted in post #10 where I can not see that statement.

Maybe you need to post more of what they sent you so we can see that (anonymise / blank out any personal info though).

I assumed the whole problem was that they are accusing you of fare evasion.

So can I ask:

A) Are you being accused of fare evasion?
or
B) Abuse of a member of staff?
or
C) both of those things?

if (C) then you do need to keep things in there about that as per your draft I suspect.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Yes it was the first available one , I could get though

How so? If you arrived into Warrington around 2pm there are lots of trains from Central back into Manchester before that one. Given it's only a 5 min walk between the two stations there appears to be a big gap in the timeline here that the investigators will spot, even allowing a few minutes for you to check your app and work out how to get to Central from Bank Quay.

There was also a service from Bank Quay direct to Victoria at 1446 arriving 1515, which is where you said you were trying to get back to (although given there was also a train from Bank Quay at 1415 to Oxford Road, which was your destination, that would have been the obvious one to go for).

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Yes being accused of both , on the letter it says I’ve committed the RoRo then it also says the other railway offences apply too. And when I rang up the prosecution place to ask for details they said to me it will likely go to court as details of abuse had been mentioned too
Thanks why I’m going in on the abuse explanation

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes being accused of both , on the letter it says I’ve committed the RoRo then it also says the other railway offences apply too. And when I rang up the prosecution place to ask for details they said to me it will likely go to court as details of abuse had been mentioned too
Thanks why I’m going in on the abuse explanation

Yes, then you should address it as part of your side of the story as you have tried to do I guess. If you can shorten it a little perhaps then it increases the chance of it being read by them and taken into account.

If the inspector said as you say they did - made views about your place of origin and your race (tho they may have some idea that if you were giving a false address then challenging where they thought you lived might in some odd way be their way of checking that) they will be less likely to prosecute for that as they would probably have to show the body camera recording to support their case I suspect, and I doubt organisations make a habit of using evidence that shows their own staff behaving in a racist manner, if that is what you feel they did.

But I think your main emphasis needs to be around the mistake you made getting on the wrong train and what you then did to try and correct that.

ALSO - don't tell them you will pay "any sum", simply end up by saying that you "do not believe I am guilty of any intention to travel without a valid ticket and would like to considerately request that no further action is taken on this matter as a result of my mistake of getting on the wrong train in an unfamiliar city." or some such phrase.

If they want to prosecute they will do so, and if they think that they have a strong enough case then they will probably ask you for a payment (if this is a 1st offence) to settle the matter prior to court hearing - which you would have to consider if you wished to do. At that stage you may be again well advised to go back to your solicitor of indeed Student Union advice service for further qualified help.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

Yes I suppose I can be questioned for that , but I did get the next Available train I could get , the walk took me 15 mins from Warrington bank quay to central.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Helloxdakaja
might be worth you using the 'reply' button to respond to the Q's being put to you when you answer them so it shows what you are replying to, as people on the thread will continue to offer useful advice and check aspects of your story so they can help. So long as the thread is appearing to you with that option of course.

 

[Helloxdakaja]

No I gave the right address , I don’t think he was wearing a body cam. And your right if he was it would look bad on him.
What do you think will happen now? I just feel Like them Saying I was abusive is going to ruin everything for me wouldn’t it just be my word against theirs?
And okay I’m going to shorten it , thank you again!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Given it's only a 5 min walk between the two stations

A side issue, but I think that @Brissle Girl is confusing Warrington with Wigan: it's around 20 minutes on foot between the Warrington stations, while the Wigan stations are (quite a lot) less than 5 minutes apart.

 

[some bloke]

Settlement

They can drop a prosecution, or talk of prosecution, at any time. Often this happens through an "out-of-court settlement" meaning the passenger pays some money for administrative costs (not usually very cheap).


Draft

See if you can do a draft of around 250 words (a quarter of what you've written). In case you're thinking of sending the response now, please post a draft on here.

What is the deadline (what is the date on the letter that says you have 14 days to respond)?


Mitigation

Bear in mind that they suggested you write about mitigation.

Mitigation isn't just aiming to get sympathy. Nor is it making excuses, in the sense of completely avoiding responsibility. You can say you take responsibility for your actions and that you regret them. But at the same time it's reasonable to give relevant facts.

Two possible mitigating factors are stress about your mother's situation (though they might wonder why you didn't call before arriving at Piccadilly), and how the inspector behaved. To me the story makes more sense with (brief mentions of) both.

Stating the facts and the mitigation and keeping the letter brief may need some more thought.

Would you be prepared to swear in court as to the words used, or what seemed one or more clear communications, by the inspector which made you angry?


"Abuse"/language

Please note that under byelaw 6(1) it's an offence to use "obscene or offensive language", not just abusive, so if you said something to yourself it could count.

How individual magistrates would interpret that might be hard to predict.

Would you say you committed that offence?

Railway byelaws

www.gov.uk

Fare

But I didn’t actually dodge a fare though did I ???

the idea that you were guilty of travelling without a valid ticket...but in fact...you made an error by getting on the wrong train and court action is a disproportionate action for them to take against you as a result of that error.

And travelling without first paying, between Oxford Road and Piccadilly?

 

[Brissle Girl]

A side issue, but I think that @Brissle Girl is confusing Warrington with Wigan: it's around 20 minutes on foot between the Warrington stations, while the Wigan stations are (quite a lot) less than 5 minutes apart.

Noted and agreed, although I don’t think it materially affects the point I’ve been trying to make.

 

[30907]

One last question, please (and once again, I am not doubting your honesty, just trying to make sense of what you did): when you got to the platform at Victoria, what train were you looking for? Was it a direct train to Oxford Road, or one where you had to change, for example at Salford Crescent?

 

[WesternLancer]

No I gave the right address , I don’t think he was wearing a body cam. And your right if he was it would look bad on him.
What do you think will happen now? I just feel Like them Saying I was abusive is going to ruin everything for me wouldn’t it just be my word against theirs?
And okay I’m going to shorten it , thank you again!

Sorry! I’m new to this I’ll do it

What do you mean when you said if they decide to prosecute they will do so and if they have a strong enough case they will ask for a payment to settle the case. Does this mean I may not have to go to court?
if they wanna prosecute me doesn’t that mean I have to go to court

"I just feel Like them Saying I was abusive is going to ruin everything for me wouldn’t it just be my word against theirs?"

If there is no recording or independent evidence then yes it is juts your word agisnt theirs. The only way you can help that is a note you write down to the best of your memory that you can use in a future defense where you record down things you recall he said. May be worth you making a few notes of that whilst you remember although you must have some of that as you have used it in your letter.

"What do you mean when you said if they decide to prosecute they will do so and if they have a strong enough case they will ask for a payment to settle the case."

See other old threads, but basically they will wait for your side of the story wihtin 14 days, then they will read it and tell you what they are going to do next. Whihc is either a letter along the lines of

A) "we do not believe you and we have passed the matter for prosecution and you will hear from the Court about that"

or

B) "we believe you and the matter is closed"

or

C) " we do not believe you but in this case we will close the case without court action for a sum of £xxx which reflects out loss and the costs of investigating the matter etc etc"

After you send your letter in you have to wait and see what they say, and indeed come back to this thread for further advice and help.

"Does this mean I may not have to go to court?"

If C or B, yes, no court involvement. C is quite likely but of course that will be at a cost to you of way over £100 at least. Which is unfair for the mistake of getting on the wrong train, which is why you need to focus your efforts now on persuading them that you made a mistake, not a deliberate fair evasion.

"if they wanna prosecute me doesn’t that mean I have to go to court"

I think, and others will clarify I am sure that you do not have to go to court as you can plead guilty or not guilty on paper ahead of the hearing date. But you will need to get advice on what might be best thing to do in that scenario, if it comes to that.

Don't worry about that at this stage, focus on getting a good letter together to reply to the request for your side of the story, as you are doing.

EDIT : cross posted with Some Blokes' v helpful advice and clearly set out post #81 just above, with which I agree.

 

[6Gman]

The timetable does match with the events described, and having found yourself in Warrington accidentally at that time walking between the stations is what would happen.

I see that the OP has now said it was around 1.30ish, which would suggest there was a suitable Oxford Road service (at around 1339?). But what Bank Quay service would he have caught?

But where is the train from Victoria "around 2ish" which would have taken one to Bank Quay?

 

[WesternLancer]

Settlement

They can drop a prosecution, or talk of prosecution, at any time. Often this happens through an "out-of-court settlement" meaning the passenger pays some money for administrative costs (not usually very cheap).


Draft

See if you can do a draft of around 250 words (a quarter of what you've written). In case you're thinking of sending the response now, please post a draft on here.

What is the deadline (what is the date on the letter that says you have 14 days to respond)?


Mitigation

Bear in mind that they suggested you write about mitigation.

Mitigation isn't just aiming to get sympathy. Nor is it making excuses, in the sense of completely avoiding responsibility. You can say you take responsibility for your actions and that you regret them. But at the same time it's reasonable to give relevant facts.

Two possible mitigating factors are stress about your mother's situation (though they might wonder why you didn't call before arriving at Piccadilly), and how the inspector behaved. To me the story makes more sense with (brief mentions of) both.

Stating the facts and the mitigation and keeping the letter brief may need some more thought.

Would you be prepared to swear in court as to the words used, or what seemed one or more clear communications, by the inspector which made you angry?


"Abuse"/language

Please note that under byelaw 6(1) it's an offence to use "obscene or offensive language", not just abusive, so if you said something to yourself it could count.

How individual magistrates would interpret that might be hard to predict.

Would you say you committed that offence?

Railway byelaws

www.gov.uk

Fare



And travelling without first paying, between Oxford Road and Piccadilly?

" And travelling without first paying, between Oxford Road and Piccadilly? "

Well, technically yes, I would say, but I don't think the OP ever wanted to go to Piccadilly did they. It was just all part of the series of errors they claim they made, and why it will be hard to convince the case officer handling this that it was all an error, but that is what the OP has to try to do, given that we are to believe the story they have told.

 

[30907]

But where is the train from Victoria "around 2ish" which would have taken one to Bank Quay?

The OP has decided they left about 1 or 1.30 and arrived Warrington BQ about 2.
The first option is consistent with boarding the Leeds to Chester service.

(BTW there are no trains from Vic to Central - referring your post #54)

 

[mmh]

But where is the train from Victoria "around 2ish" which would have taken one to Bank Quay?

It's quite clear which train must have been used. But, as I have said already, I see no value in or benefit to the OP from questioning the sequence of events. They after all are the only person who would be disadvantaged.

 

[6Gman]

The OP has decided they left about 1 or 1.30 and arrived Warrington BQ about 2.
The first option is consistent with boarding the Leeds to Chester service.

(BTW there are no trains from Vic to Central - referring your post #54)

Sorry, I was confusing the Chat Moss service to Liverpool.

So the sequence now is:

Arrived at Victoria around 1300

Boarded the 1307 Chester train

Arrived in Warrington Bank Quay (around 1348 I believe, having stopped at two stations en route)

Ignored the 1420 Bank Quay to Manchester service

Walked to Central

Boarded 1548 departure from Central

Alighted at Piccadilly (having 'missed' the stop at Oxford Road).


There are elements to this account which would look odd to any investigator.

 

[SteveM70]

I’m still really struggling with the timings in all of this. Perhaps the OP can help (and apologies if it’s me being thick - it usually is)

The trains from Victoria to Bank Quay are every two hours, just after the odd hour. So I presume you got the 13:07 getting to Warrington at about 13:45

You’re then back at Piccadilly talking to the revenue person at 16:27, having caught the first available train back, which was from Central not Bank Quay

The train which arrives at Piccadilly closest to this time is the 15:48 from Warrington Central, arrives Piccadilly 16:11

This leaves a gap of about two hours for you to decide what to do in Warrington, make the 20 minute walk to the other station and catch the train back.

But there are 8 other trains between the two Warrington stations and Manchester in that period.

You’ll need to explain why you didn’t get a train sooner. Sorry if this appears blunt, and I’m not accusing you of anything, but this’ll be what you have to explain because at face value it doesn’t stack up

Other question for anyone familiar with those stations - does either of them have barriers?