Fare Evasion on DLR - Criminal Record?

[rowleygooch12]

Hello everyone! Firstly, thanks for everyone's advice on this forum - I tried reading some posts before posting this. May I please request for some advice on my situation below:

• I am a non-British living in London on a Tier 2 "working professional" visa.
• Today, I left Heron Quays DLR Station and finished at Deptford Bridge DLR Station.
• My friend picked me up on my journey to Heron Quays to do a quick drop-off at the office (Canary Wharf) and returned home as I was working from home. This means I do not have any record of a journey to Heron Quays.
• Upon arriving at Deptford Bridge DLR Station, I was caught by Revenue Protection agents, who asked me to tap my card.
• I tapped my card and unfortunately the machine showed that I did not tap when I left the station. Upon reflection, I remember that I pulled my phone away too quickly despite entering my phone passcode for Apple Pay.
• This resulted in me having to pay the penalty fare of £40 on the spot rather than letting them send me a letter, etc.
• The payment was done via card where the agent keyed in my card details onto his device.
• I requested for a paper receipt.
• I gave the Revenue Agent my name and address, paid the fine and returned home.
• My ticket is labelled "Transport for London Penalty Fare" and below it quotes, "You will be liable for prosecution if incorrect information is given. This ticket is issued in accordance with the Greater London Authority Act 1999 and authorises you to travel to the destination stated above".

My question for the community is:

• Does my payment of the £40 fine constitute a "criminal record" against me? Or does this count as the "settlement fee" and there won't be any record?

I am concerned as I am going to renew my visa soon and am worried this single, first time offence may hinder my application.

This incident is truly an accident and I have not committed any other actions to warrant warnings/fines/charges against me.

Please advice if I can provide additional information to assist all of you.

Thank you to the responders in advance.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

The penalty fare is not a criminal conviction, so I would not expect you to need to mention it if your visa renewal asks about criminal convictions.

But to be on the safe side, make sure you read the visa renewal form and any notes with it very carefully in case you do have to mention penalty fares.

 

[furlong]

As long as nothing you told them is subsequently found to be false, paying the Penalty Fare is meant to be the end of the matter itself. A Penalty Fare is a civil penalty not a criminal one. It is designed to penalise dishonest travellers without treating them as criminals. If something similar happens again, the inspector who catches you then might discover that it is not the first time and be more inclined to treat you as a criminal that time. For legal reasons, people on the forum generally steer well clear of saying anything about visas.

 

[mmh]

It is designed to penalise dishonest travellers without treating them as criminals.

To be picky, or rather, accurate, it isn't. Receiving a penalty fare does not indicate any dishonesty or criminality.

 

[furlong]

To be picky, or rather, accurate, it isn't. Receiving a penalty fare does not indicate any dishonesty or criminality.

It does indicate both - BUT the offence does not have to be proved to the criminal standard AND the offender is not treated as a criminal. The difference is the lower standard and reversal of the burden of proof - guilt is assumed rather than innocence - but to compensate for that, the penalty imposed is merely a civil one instead of a criminal one, which allows the matter to be resolved quickly on the spot and reduces the pressures on the courts. If someone could not, in principle, have been successfully prosecuted for what happened, then neither should a Penalty Fare have been issued. (Think about it - if the inspector had asked to see the ticket and what was presented was not valid, then one or more criminal offences might in principle have been committed - but instead of going through all the time and effort involved in prosecuting, a Penalty Fare is issued, and the inspector is immediately free to carry on searching for more offenders.)

Go and read the parliamentary debates on the legislation and the old SRA's rules and guidelines if you want a better understanding of how this was all intended to hang together coherently.

 

[Hadders]

A Penalty Fare does not constitute a criminal conviction. Only a court can fine you and impose a criminal conviction.

This is how Chiltern Railways describe what a Penalty Fare is and is the best explanation I’ve seen.

https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/files/timetables/Chiltern%20Penalty%20Fares.pdf

A Penalty Fare is a charge that Chiltern Railways is allowed to make under the Regulations and Rules. It is not a fine, and anyone who is charged one is not being accused of avoiding, or attempting to avoid, paying their fare.

 

[furlong]

Which is a bizarre thing for a company that wants people always to pay for their journeys to say - the clue lies in the word 'Penalty' in the thing's name!

Chiltern issuing a legally enforceable civil penalty (often referred to as a fine), calling it a "Penalty", then attempting to pretend it is not meant to penalise the particular behaviour (deliberately travelling without paying) that it has always been intended to penalise and therefore deter!

 

[_toommm_]

Just for the avoidance of doubt, you say you tapped your card with the revenue protectors but then say you might have pulled your phone away too quickly when you first attempted to tap-in. When you were inspected, did you also tap your phone I.e. the same device?

 

[bcarmicle]

When you say that the machine showed you hadn’t tapped in, are you sure that’s what they told you versus what you assumed/volunteered to them? Contactless cards and Apple Pay devices don’t show whether or not they’ve been tapped in; if you fail a revenue protection check, you’ll just automatically be penalty fared at the end of the day and you wouldn’t have received any paperwork, so it sounds like you may have either told them that you didn’t tap in or you accidentally presented them with an Oyster card.

 

[island]

This reminds me very much of a thread we had a month or two ago, let me see if I can find it.

Ah yes, here we are. Not the same situation, but will link for completeness.

TFL Penalty Ticket

Hello, I need some help of my TFL penalty. This moring, I am in rush and use the mobile apple pay to touch in for the DLR service. I may not touch in succefully, because I am late and in rush. When I got to my final stop and just remembered I forgot to bring my file which was at home. I turned...

www.railforums.co.uk

As for the original question, no, a fully paid Penalty Fare does not count as a criminal conviction.

It is illegal for me, or anyone else not properly qualified and registered, to give immigration advice, so I am not in a position to comment on what you should or should not put on a visa renewal form.

 

[rowleygooch12]

Hello everyone (@Fawkes Cat / @furlong / @mmh / @Hadders / @_toommm_ / @bcarmicle / @island), thank you so much for your time in reading and for sharing your insight!

To respond to the questions asked by @_toommm_ : I did use the same device/card (my phone's Apple Pay) for tapping into the station and for the Revenue Protection agent's "check".

Thank you @island for linking the above thread. Was strongly considering whether or not my case was the same before posting a new one

 

[WesternLancer]

Ref this thread quoted

This reminds me very much of a thread we had a month or two ago, let me see if I can find it.

Ah yes, here we are. Not the same situation, but will link for completeness.

TFL Penalty Ticket

Hello, I need some help of my TFL penalty. This moring, I am in rush and use the mobile apple pay to touch in for the DLR service. I may not touch in succefully, because I am late and in rush. When I got to my final stop and just remembered I forgot to bring my file which was at home. I turned...

www.railforums.co.uk

As for the original question, no, a fully paid Penalty Fare does not count as a criminal conviction.

It is illegal for me, or anyone else not properly qualified and registered, to give immigration advice, so I am not in a position to comment on what you should or should not put on a visa renewal form.

it may be of note to say that the person concerned in that case direct messaged me (to thank me for advice posted etc) and in passing mentioned that they had concluded matters satisfactorily with the help of a solicitor, for which they paid for, and I understood the outcome meant that things had not been taken to court etc. As the thread was locked by that time they could not update it and I assume did not wish to request it be opened.
Only limited use to the OP for this thread, but strikes me that since @rowleygooch12 mentions that recent case it might be helpful to add this information.

 

[Haywain]

• Does my payment of the £40 fine constitute a "criminal record" against me? Or does this count as the "settlement fee" and there won't be any record?

A penalty fare that has been paid means the matter has been concluded, so for this matter there is no requirement to consult a solicitor and it won't be going to court (other than in very exceptional circumstances) and there is no criminal record.

it may be of note to say that the person concerned in that case direct messaged me (to thank me for advice posted etc) and in passing mentioned that they had concluded matters satisfactorily with the help of a solicitor, for which they paid for, and I understood the outcome meant that things had not been taken to court etc. As the thread was locked by that time they could not update it and I assume did not wish to request it be opened.
Only limited use to the OP for this thread, but strikes me that since @rowleygooch12 mentions that recent case it might be helpful to add this information.

The major difference between that case and this is that in the earlier case the Penalty Fare was not paid at the time.

 

[WesternLancer]

The major difference between that case and this is that in the earlier case the Penalty Fare was not paid at the time.

Yes, v helpful observation.

 

[jumble]

Which is a bizarre thing for a company that wants people always to pay for their journeys to say - the clue lies in the word 'Penalty' in the thing's name!

Chiltern issuing a legally enforceable civil penalty (often referred to as a fine), calling it a "Penalty", then attempting to pretend it is not meant to penalise the particular behaviour (deliberately travelling without paying) that it has always been intended to penalise and therefore deter!

I am confused
One could easily argue that a person who has made a journey who got on a train to go from a to b gets a phone call and then decides to go to c and presents them self at the end of the journey to pay is not being dishonest.
I accept they have broke the bylaws which is criminal but as we all know criminal and is strict liability

 

[Hadders]

We’re at risk of going off topic but the way I interpret it is that a Penalty Fare can be charged where a passenger makes an ‘honest mistake’.

If fare evasion is suspected then a Penalty Fare isn’t appropriate.

 

[furlong]

We’re at risk of going off topic but the way I interpret it is that a Penalty Fare can be charged where a passenger makes an ‘honest mistake’.

If fare evasion is suspected then a Penalty Fare isn’t appropriate.

(Off-topic, definitely - someone could move the thread.)
Sometimes people lose sight of the wood for the trees. If someone gave you a Penalty fare, what you would you think? That you were handed a penalty because you did wrong. Correct.
It is called a Penalty Fare because it is a Penalty - it penalises someone for wrongdoing and it is absolutely appropriate to issue one when fare evasion is suspected - that's exactly its rationale - to deal with low-grade fare evasion quickly and efficiently outside the court system. A company pretending otherwise undermines the scheme and should be held to account.

Someone who had to change their mind about their destination mid-journey and is issued a PF has the opportunity to try to persuade the Appeal Panels that that constitutes a compelling reason why they should not need to pay and it would be for the Appeal Panel to decide based on the particular circumstances.

 

[Egg Centric]

Also as someone who has had to navigate immigration law on various occasions such as with my wife may I suggest www.immigrationboards.com for immigration questions? It's very clunky with sticky threads that make you think it's not been updated in decades, but it remains active with very helpful advice.

You have nothing to worry about here and I don't suggest bringing up anything unnecessary on an immigration form because those who process them, with honourable exceptions, tend to be some combination of stupid or vindictive when met with anything that doesn't meet their narrow checkboxes.

 

[30907]

I am confused
One could easily argue that a person who has made a journey who got on a train to go from a to b gets a phone call and then decides to go to c and presents them self at the end of the journey to pay is not being dishonest.

Are you referring to a different case?