Fare evasion

[Milly]

Hey guys, wondering if you could help?!

was charged for fare evasion the other day and was wondering if anyone would know how long should I expect a letter to come through the post?
Also, do they always offer a settlement figure?

 

[py_megapixel]

You may want to edit your original post to provide further details - please be as honest and detailed as possible. For example, which train operating company? Where to/from? Were you actually fare evading or do you believe that you have been wrongly accused? All of these details can affect what advice can be given, and also what the ultimate outcome is likely to be.

 

[MotCO]

You may want to edit your original post to provide further details - please be as honest and detailed as possible.

.. but do not include any personal details which could identify you.

 

[Milly]

Hey guys, wondering if you could help?!

was charged for fare evasion the other day and was wondering if anyone would know how long should I expect a letter to come through the post?

I’ve been paying part of my journey to and from London for three weeks and got caught. I explained to the revenue that I only just started working and was struggling due to Covid 19. I’m just so worried that I will have to go to court and get a criminal record as my job depends on me having a clean record.
Will they always offer a settlement figure first?

 

[MotCO]

Please can you provide further details. Different Train Operating Companies have different arrangements, so you will neeed to say which line you were travelling on if you cannot disclose the actual stations. Please also state what type of ticket you were using - was it a single, season ticket, Oyster etc., and if Oyster, which zones did it cover?

Also, who caught you? Was it the guard, a Revenue Protection Inspector or a gate-line ticket collector?

Did you receive any paperwork?

We need to see this information in order to advise what might happen next.

 

[Milly]

I was cautioned by a Revenue inspector who gave me a caution and provided me a receipt of the caution if that makes sense.
Two weekly Season tickets for part journeys to and from London. South eastern trains.

 

[Milly]

I haven’t received a letter yet. Waiting so impatiently.

 

[swt_passenger]

Letters can take weeks if not months.

Did you mean in post #6 that you have two season tickets, which combine to cover your whole journey, OR you have two season tickets with a gap between them. The latter would make a huge difference...

 

[Milly]

Two season tickets with a gap between them which if combined does Not completes the journey.

 

[Milly]

I guess I just have to wait and see what happens next

 

[py_megapixel]

Oops I meant if combined does NOT complete the same Journey

Just to clarify: say your journey is between X and Y and the train calls at X, then A, then B, then Y (there might be other stations in between)
Are you saying you've bought a ticket from X to A and then a separate ticket for B to Y (but don't have a ticket valid for A to B)?

 

[Milly]

Sorry, it’s just so hard to explain as I don’t want to name the stations.
Correct, the whole ticket would be from A to Z. I paid from A-B (weekly ticket) and then paid for the second weekly ticket from T-Z.

There are of course many stations stops that I never paid for. Of course this only happened for three weeks but don’t know what the outcome will be.

 

[6Gman]

There are more experienced and better qualified people to comment, but since there's been no comment for a few hours I'll outline the position you are in as I would assess it.

Firstly, it may be some weeks (or even months) before you hear from them. Generally the first approach is to ask for your explanation of the circumstances. They will then decide how to proceed.

However, the circumstances as you explain them - and if I understand them correctly - are such that they may go straight to prosecution for the following reasons:

1. The technique you used, sometimes known as "doughnuting", shows a clear intent to avoid the correct fare. It's not something that can be done accidentally, spontaneously or without forethought.
2. It was not a one-off; you admit to having done it over a period of time.

Both of these factors will make a prosecution straightforward.

The operator may however decide that, rather than proceed to court, an out-of-court settlement would be in their interests. However such a settlement would be for no small amount. It would involve a full reimbursement of fares avoided plus a significant payment toward their costs in investigating and processing your case.

Either way you will need to start saving.

I appreciate this may not be what you want to hear but this is the reality of your situation. Wait for them to contact you and have a clear idea of how you intend to respond.

 

[some bloke]

was wondering if anyone would know how long should I expect a letter to come through the post?

For the usual railway ticketing offences, they have six months from the incident to "lay an information before the court". It might be some weeks after that before you received a summons or single justice procedure notice. But usually they would write and ask the passenger's side of the story before prosecuting. You wouldn't normally expect to wait as long as six months.

do they always offer a settlement figure?

No, but it is always open to you to try and persuade them. You can try again if it doesn't work the first time. Some people manage this even in the court building before the case is called. You may have more success if you hire a solicitor.

my job depends on me having a clean record.

Can you be more specific about the requirements of the job and/or professional body? If you give a general idea here of the kind of job you do, people may give some specific advice. If it's clear-cut, and even if it's not, you may want to consult a solicitor. There are some who specialise in railway offences, and they tend to be significantly more expensive.

If you haven't already done so, please write down in as much detail as you can remember what was said to you and what you said (and how sure you are of the accuracy), so you have a record before you forget.

You could upload a photo of the paperwork you received, with identifying details removed.

 

[some bloke]

If you belong to a union, they may offer some free initial legal advice.

 

[some bloke]

Some professional bodies may require members to notify them if they are charged, not just if they are convicted. (You use the word "charge" above, but here I mean a formal charge with a specific offence). If you aren't already aware of these, it may be wise to check your employment contract and a professional body's website for exactly what the requirements are - both for continued employment/membership and for what you would need to notify them of. As you can see in other threads on here, people sometimes freak out thinking their career would be ruined when it wouldn't. In the rare cases where it would, the expense of a solicitor may be small compared to the effects on the career.

 

[Fare-Cop]

It will help to know which specific train operating company this happened on as some are more rigidly concerned with prosecuting deliberate fare evasion than others and that is what is clearly evident here.

In most cases it will be between three and six weeks before you receive a letter from the train operating company or their agents

 

[MikeWh]

I was cautioned by a Revenue inspector who gave me a caution and provided me a receipt of the caution if that makes sense.
Two weekly Season tickets for part journeys to and from London. South eastern trains.

It will help to know which specific train operating company this happened on as some are more rigidly concerned with prosecuting deliberate fare evasion than others and that is what is clearly evident here.

In most cases it will be between three and six weeks before you receive a letter from the train operating company or their agents

 

[Milly]

Thank you all for your responses. I will just wait until I get a letter see what route I need to follow. On the earlier post I mentioned I got charged, terminology was wrong, I got cautioned by the revenue inspector at the station. I’ve read a bit about it and at this present time it doesn’t mean that I got cautioned in the same way as police officer would give you a caution. It practically means a warning of such. Will feed back on this forum the outcome of it all as I’m sure it will help others who are in a similar situation to me.

thank you again to all who helped provide information

 

[30907]

Thank you all for your responses. I will just wait until I get a letter see what route I need to follow. On the earlier post I mentioned I got charged, terminology was wrong, I got cautioned by the revenue inspector at the station. I’ve read a bit about it and at this present time it doesn’t mean that I got cautioned in the same way as police officer would give you a caution. It practically means a warning of such. Will feed back on this forum the outcome of it all as I’m sure it will help others who are in a similar situation to me.

thank you again to all who helped provide information

Members on here will be happy to advise if you get the letter asking for your version of events, but keep it short and basically:
- admit you did wrong
- acknowledge that fare evasion costs the company/the community
- promise to buy the correct ticket in future
- and don't expect them to be sympathetic to your situation, they've heard it all before (hope that doesn't sound too harsh).

 

[Milly]

Members on here will be happy to advise if you get the letter asking for your version of events, but keep it short and basically:
- admit you did wrong
- acknowledge that fare evasion costs the company/the community
- promise to buy the correct ticket in future
- and don't expect them to be sympathetic to your situation, they've heard it all before (hope that doesn't sound too harsh).

Thank you, I shall keep all your points in mind when replying to them. I will never do this again.

 

[furlong]

Two things to consider in any negotiations
1) They would have to prove any alleged offences beyond reasonable doubt, but they only caught you on one occasion - an admission from you about the extent of the offending helps them and the system may give you credit for this;
2) A criminal court would normally focus on compensation to put the company back into the position it would have been in if you'd bought the right ticket in the first place - i.e. the difference between prices of the season tickets. However train companies like to argue that each separate journey is a separate breach of their conditions for which you owe them the full standard anytime fare - completely disregarding the tickets you held and based on single tickets not season tickets.

Or in other words, the sum of money companies seek as compensation can be higher than that which a court would actually award if you have a good defence solicitor. So these two points give you some leverage if your overriding aim is to avoid a criminal record rather than to pay as little as possible - in effect, if you co-operate and accept a higher estimate of their loss, they may end up with more money than if they take it through the courts and the courts decide that only a lower amount of compensation is actually due.

When the letter arrives, you might consider employing a solicitor to try to negotiate for the best outcome on your behalf.

 

[furlong]

Here's an example from SE a few years ago now, with a settlement based on anytime singles:

"When our revenue team calculated the cost he made an offer which is the £43,000 and he settled on it. There has been no admission of any sort of guilt."
The payout was calculated on the basis of single fares. This meant the settlement cost him £20,000 more than if he had bought season tickets. The train company defended the decision not to prosecute.
"[Out-of-court settlement] is something that people have a right to do in this country," said Atterbury Thomas. "The punishment is the big amount of money. Fare dodging is something we take very seriously to protect the proceeds of everybody else's tickets. We are rigorous in making sure we catch the people who dodge the fare."

And one from Chiltern where the courts ultimately awarded compensation based on season ticket prices:

Daily Mail

Dr Peter Barnett, 44, dodged nearly £20,000 in rail fares, prosecutors said
Travelled from Oxfordshire to London but pretended it was from Wembley
Barnett pleaded guilty to six counts of fraud following Oyster card scam
He has been handed a 16-week prison sentence, suspended for 12 months
He was also ordered to complete 200 hours unpaid work, pay £85 prosecution costs and an £80 victim surcharge.

Daily Telegraph

The City barrister, who was cautioned for fare dodging in 2010, was handed a 16-week prison sentence suspended for 12 months and ordered pay £5,892.70 in compensation to Chiltern Railways at City of London Magistrates.

Judge Omotosho said: "Looking at all the evidence in the round I am satisfied that a reasonable attempt has been made by the defendant to calculate loss to the company and in this case the actual loss is £5,892.70 and not the £19,689 as claimed."

 

[Milly]

T

Two things to consider in any negotiations
1) They would have to prove any alleged offences beyond reasonable doubt, but they only caught you on one occasion - an admission from you about the extent of the offending helps them and the system may give you credit for this;
2) A criminal court would normally focus on compensation to put the company back into the position it would have been in if you'd bought the right ticket in the first place - i.e. the difference between prices of the season tickets. However train companies like to argue that each separate journey is a separate breach of their conditions for which you owe them the full standard anytime fare - completely disregarding the tickets you held and based on single tickets not season tickets.

Or in other words, the sum of money companies seek as compensation can be higher than that which a court would actually award if you have a good defence solicitor. So these two points give you some leverage if your overriding aim is to avoid a criminal record rather than to pay as little as possible - in effect, if you co-operate and accept a higher estimate of their loss, they may end up with more money than if they take it through the courts and the courts decide that only a lower amount of compensation is actually due.

When the letter arrives, you might consider employing a solicitor to try to negotiate for the best outcome on your behalf.

thank You Furlong for these helpful points. I will keep all this in mind. It’s now just a waiting game until I receive the letter.

 

[Milly]

Here's an example from SE a few years ago now, with a settlement based on anytime singles:


And one from Chiltern where the courts ultimately awarded compensation based on season ticket prices:

Daily Mail



Daily Telegraph

I hope this does not happen to me with the amount of money to be paid as I’ve only done this for three weeks.

 

[furlong]

Both of those people were doing it for years before they got caught which is why the sums of money were so big and one of them received a suspended prison sentence. I gave them as examples that show some of the principles involved. Small cases of course don't get into the national newspapers and attract proportionately lower penalties or settlements.

 

[Milly]

Thank you furlong. It’s good to know all this in order to be prepared.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Do bear in mind that instances like this are taken very seriously by the train operating company. A caution from a revenue inspector is not the same as one from a police officer. You could end up in serious trouble, or you might get away with a fine imposed by the court (if this goes to court).

As others have said, keep your fingers crossed and start saving to pay a potential fine which no doubt, could be in 3-figures.

Always buy a ticket for the whole of your journey. Does your company offer a season ticket loan?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you furlong. It’s good to know all this in order to be prepared.

To help you prepare I would start calculating the cost of the full price, full single fare at peak time with no discounts like railcards applied for the journey (A-Z I think you called it) that you would have done for every day for those 3 weeks that you traveled, or could have traveled if you had a season - so potentially 7 days a week. 2 singles each day - there and back - tho you may get away with an 'Anytime Day return fare' x 7 days a week.

That I suspect is the starting point of the offer that you would probably need to make to them to avoid court, plus a cost for their admin.

I note you do not want to list the stations, but you can easily find the fares on line eg here, to enable you to do that calculation

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[Islineclear3_1]

+ victim surcharge?