Fare evasion

[froggyfroggy]

Hello,
In early April I had a flight to catch from stansted. I ran late (I was still in London 80min before flight departure) and I didn’t have a train ticket in advance.

When I arrived in Tottenham Hale, the train to stansted was pulling up to the station. So I did something stupid and used contactless to pass the gate and get onto the train.

I know we cannot use contactless for stansted, but I thought it was accepted for some part of the journey (I now know it’s only between Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale only. But I thought it was from Liverpool until bishop/Mountfitchet).

I thought I could use contactless until the next station, and just needed to buy a ticket for the next station (bishop stroford) to stansted.
I did just that then. Bought my ticket, wanted to tap out my card at bishop (so I wouldn’t be overcharged) and then be in line as I’d have paid contactless for a part of my journey and bought a ticket for the other.

I didn’t just buy a ticket for Tottenham Hale until stansted because I didn’t want to be charged on my contactless + buy a ticket. I truly though what I was doing was within rules. I just didn’t want to be charged twice.

I ended up too far away from the gates at bishop so I couldn’t tap out my card. I was gutted as I thought I would be charged extra by contactless for not tapping out, but I had made my peace with all that. At that point I just wanted to catch my plane.


I arrive at stansted and that’s where I learn it was fare evasion. Warden scans my ticket and sees it wasn’t tapped in, I explain everything but it’s still my fault obviously so he fills up the paper for a fare evasion.

I tell him there’s a problem with my Mail as some of my flatmates have been opening and stealing letters (the stealing letter I’m assuming as I’ve had letters I was expecting that never came. The opened letters I’ve obviously witnessed).

I ask him if this can be dealt with right now with me paying either the fare or the fine, but he said I’ll have to wait for the letter.

I sent an email on the plane (I made it with less than 5min to spare! So it wasn’t all for nothing at least) to greater Anglia explaining all that and apologising and telling them I want to pay for it asap, can they let me know how.

They reply saying I’ll have to wait for the letter.

Well, now it’s been over a month and I’ve received no letter and I’m afraid they’ve sent it, and that they’re thinking I’m evading the fine.

-> first, what are the risks for me? Can this go onto my criminal record?

-> when I pay the fine, will this go on my criminal record or something similar?

-> how can I pay? The person by email was lovely but not super helpful.

-> is there anyway I could get the fine waived and just pay for the missing part of my journey (as I now know the contactless wasn’t paid to greater Anglia, so that’s why it’s fare evasion). This is just me trying my luck, but if there’s not way, I truly don’t mind. I just want to sort this all out.

I’ve tried calling rhe greater Anglia number 6 times now, and they never picked up. I’m kinda out of options (I mean I’ll keep trying, but still I want to get this done asap)

 

[AlbertBeale]

First a technical point - if you literally pay "a fine", that can only be issued by a court, so you certainly will by then have a criminal record (even if only a minor one). You need to aim to reach a financial settlement with the rail company so as to avoid a court case; then there's no "fine" in the legal sense, no conviction, no criminal record, etc. However, in order to have a chance of doing an out-of-court deal, you absolutely do need to respond (appropriately) to what you get sent; it might not have been sent yet (these things can take over a month), but it's also possible that it's gone missing thanks to your badly-behaved flat mates. [That does need dealing with, surely? You seem rather resigned to an unacceptable situation. But that's not the topic here.]

You urgently need to make contact with the railway and stress that you have post problems, and either give them an alternative address they could use where you'd be sure to get the letter, or ask if they'd e-mail it (or e-mail a copy if they've already posted it); If they've sent it and don't get a reply, then they'll assume you're ignoring them and it presumably will escalate to court. Getting the letter is crucial; and it's in their interest that you get the letter too. If phoning them doesn't work, and e-mail doesn't either, then send a recorded delivery ("signed for") letter explaining the situation and giving them an alternative address to use - then you have proof that you have at least been trying to be in touch. (A "signed for" letter costs something like £1.50 above regular postage - you can do it at any Post Office. You get proof of postage, and a reference number you can use on the Royal Mail website to get proof of delivery.) Alternatively, research a different phone number for them; they obviously have admin numbers besides the main public phone lines, even if they make it hard to find out what they are. When you do contact them, the point isn't to ask them to "waive any payment" - that's really not likely - the whole point of contacting them is to get the official letter so that you can answer their questions and work out what you need to say to them - that's the starting point of trying to avoid a court case.

In terms of getting the "fine" waived, if the excuse is being confused about what ticket you needed, from where, that's unlikely to wash. Travelling without a ticket is an offence; a prosecution would succeed; but normal practice (if you're not already known to them, and you can show them you're contrite and won't do it again) is for the railway to let you off without a court case, in return for paying them the fare you didn't pay, plus a 3-figure admin charge. A court case is very unlikely to turn out any cheaper, and it comes with the conviction and record, so you obviously want to go down the out-of-court settlement route.

Although your ticket to Stanstead hadn't been scanned in, and so this alerted the ticket person to ask you questions, that itself wasn't the problem. (Not scanning your ticket isn't an offence - it's just evidence that something unusual might have happened, which might have been an offence...) If you'd bought a ticket online while already on the train, then providing that ticket was valid from the last station your contactless (or any other payment) was valid to, and you bought it before the train left that station, then you'd have been in the clear (though you might still have had to explain this of course). You'd be charged for a maximum-price journey on your Oyster or payment card, because of not having tapped out anywhere, but you wouldn't have any legal problem. As it is, part at least of your journey was unticketed, hence you do have a legal problem.

Once you've got the letter, cover up all identifying details including reference numbers, and post it up here. Those on this forum who're most expert at such things will then explain how to reply in the way that's likely to get the best result.

But meanwhile, get in touch with the railway somehow, and make sure you get the letter!

 

[Snow1964]

Also be aware that if it happened in April, any letter might not yet have been sent. Typically tends to be 3-7 weeks (but depends how busy they are), and can be anything upto 5-6 months

 

[froggyfroggy]

Thank you so much for your thorough answer.

I obviously did not want to lie to the warden and did not pretend I came on the other station (as it really wasn’t me trying to evade the fare. I promise. I was just trying to find the most cost efficient way to get to stansted after using contactless without realising Tottenham Hale was the last contactless stop). This is a 100% my fault so I won’t try to get it waver then (just wanted to see if there was a way, but I guess it’s my responsibility to ensure I’ve paid properly, so I’ll take the loss. Truly wished I had known back in the train. It would have saved me the anxiety and the money )

I’ll find alternatives to reach out to greater Anglia. Thank you so much!

And I know I should not just accept the letters issue, but no on is coming clean. Literally had to order a new bank card. The first 3 times I ordered a new one they never came, and the 4th on the letter was opened. I just don’t know how to deal with it at that point. I don’t want to go nuclear as we live together and also I have no clue which one is doing that. And I can’t even prove it’s not just my postman being cheeky.

First a technical point - if you literally pay "a fine", that can only be issued by a court, so you certainly will by then have a criminal record (even if only a minor one). You need to aim to reach a financial settlement with the rail company so as to avoid a court case; then there's no "fine" in the legal sense, no conviction, no criminal record, etc. However, in order to have a chance of doing an out-of-court deal, you absolutely do need to respond (appropriately) to what you get sent; it might not have been sent yet (these things can take over a month), but it's also possible that it's gone missing thanks to your badly-behaved flat mates. [That does need dealing with, surely? You seem rather resigned to an unacceptable situation. But that's not the topic here.]

You urgently need to make contact with the railway and stress that you have post problems, and either give them an alternative address they could use where you'd be sure to get the letter, or ask if they'd e-mail it (or e-mail a copy if they've already posted it); If they've sent it and don't get a reply, then they'll assume you're ignoring them and it presumably will escalate to court. Getting the letter is crucial; and it's in their interest that you get the letter too. If phoning them doesn't work, and e-mail doesn't either, then send a recorded delivery ("signed for") letter explaining the situation and giving them an alternative address to use - then you have proof that you have at least been trying to be in touch. (A "signed for" letter costs something like £1.50 above regular postage - you can do it at any Post Office. You get proof of postage, and a reference number you can use on the Royal Mail website to get proof of delivery.) Alternatively, research a different phone number for them; they obviously have admin numbers besides the main public phone lines, even if they make it hard to find out what they are. When you do contact them, the point isn't to ask them to "waive any payment" - that's really not likely - the whole point of contacting them is to get the official letter so that you can answer their questions and work out what you need to say to them - that's the starting point of trying to avoid a court case.

In terms of getting the "fine" waived, if the excuse is being confused about what ticket you needed, from where, that's unlikely to wash. Travelling without a ticket is an offence; a prosecution would succeed; but normal practice (if you're not already known to them, and you can show them you're contrite and won't do it again) is for the railway to let you off without a court case, in return for paying them the fare you didn't pay, plus a 3-figure admin charge. A court case is very unlikely to turn out any cheaper, and it comes with the conviction and record, so you obviously want to go down the out-of-court settlement route.

Although your ticket to Stanstead hadn't been scanned in, and so this alerted the ticket person to ask you questions, that itself wasn't the problem. (Not scanning your ticket isn't an offence - it's just evidence that something unusual might have happened, which might have been an offence...) If you'd bought a ticket online while already on the train, then providing that ticket was valid from the last station your contactless (or any other payment) was valid to, and you bought it before the train left that station, then you'd have been in the clear (though you might still have had to explain this of course). You'd be charged for a maximum-price journey on your Oyster or payment card, because of not having tapped out anywhere, but you wouldn't have any legal problem. As it is, part at least of your journey was unticketed, hence you do have a legal problem.

Once you've got the letter, cover up all identifying details including reference numbers, and post it up here. Those on this forum who're most expert at such things will then explain how to reply in the way that's likely to get the best result.

But meanwhile, get in touch with the railway somehow, and make sure you get the

Also be aware that if it happened in April, any letter might not yet have been sent. Typically tends to be 3-7 weeks (but depends how busy they are), and can be anything upto 5-6 months

Ahh. I thought it’d be much faster. Thank you. I’ll still reach out to them in case it was already sent, but I feel better already. Thank you!!

 

[TrainLover79]

Were you cautioned at the time ?

 

[froggyfroggy]

Were you cautioned at the time ?

What does it mean? I’m

 

[AlterEgo]

What does it mean? I’m

Were you read your rights? “You do not have to say anything…” etc.

 

[froggyfroggy]

Were you read your rights? “You do not have to say anything…” etc.

i don’t think so? But now I don’t remember exactly if the man said I didn’t have to answer his questions (he asked me a couple that were on his paper). He might have said I didn’t have to reply, but I truly can’t recall.

He just asked me for my details, cross-checked them on my passport asked me 2/3 questions (like can you afford the journey and if I had a valid ticket)

 

[Haywain]

Were you cautioned at the time ?

Whether cautioned or not makes very little difference.