It seems an FCC train has left it's pantograph up at Blackfriars, and as a result, it has clipped the ceiling above the line.... Southbound lines have been closed for at least an hour now. How can this happen?! (There are pictures on twitter)
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FCC Pantograph strike at Blackfriars
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tsr
Established Member
Could it be a failure of the mechanism that keeps the spring down? The incident appears to initially be attributed to a train fault rather than driver error.
The train involved has now been removed. I believe it was this service:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G40336/2014/01/02/advanced
2E23 0858 St Albans - Sevenoaks
The train involved has now been removed. I believe it was this service:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G40336/2014/01/02/advanced
2E23 0858 St Albans - Sevenoaks
nrturner
Member
KingBBoogaloo
Member
No springs in that pantograph.
Air pressure is used to keep the pan' up on a 319.
Air pressure is used to keep the pan' up on a 319.
tsr
Established Member
Sorry for the inaccuracy. I think I am getting forgetful! Or perhaps I just spend too much time in 3rd rail land - which is sometimes rather fortunate...
CardiffKid
On Moderation
Oh wonderful.
That's my evening commute stuffed then
All cleared now
The obstruction may be cleared but the service is not back to normal!
tsr
Established Member
Ah, I know. But as I ride those units so often (sometimes unfortunately...!), any error on my part is unforgiveable...
captainbigun
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To expand, BW is entirely pneumatic, Stone Faively is a combination of mechanical and pneumatic, upward force being provided through a whacking spring.
Don't know if it's actually 'left its pantograph up' or if it's a Failiure. I would be surprised it the driver forgot as it's such a common part of driving through there, same as Drayton park. Plus an alarm should go off aswell if it's left up.
The person that Tweeted the photo and has now had Metro asking for permission to use the photo has suggested it was a cock up by FirstCC. Interestingly, FCC didn't reply to confirm or deny the fact.
However, if it was a train fault I do wonder if the person who Tweeted, and indeed the journalist that writes any story in Metro, will apologise? A large number of people have re-tweeted or favourited the photo and will probably be holding the driver and FCC as responsible.
However, if it was a train fault I do wonder if the person who Tweeted, and indeed the journalist that writes any story in Metro, will apologise? A large number of people have re-tweeted or favourited the photo and will probably be holding the driver and FCC as responsible.
I highly doubt that this soon after the event FCC will be able to deny or confirm any allegations as to what happened. They will need to investigate first, something many of the idiots on twitter and the press don't see the need to do.
nrturner
Member
News articles:
http://www.london24.com/news/transp...riars_station_as_carriage_hits_roof_1_3171085
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25576100 (second most-read news article at the moment)
http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/02/trains-pantograph-crashes-into-roof-at-blackfriars-station-4247237/
Indeed all we know at present is that the pantograph was up at Blackfriars when it shouldn't be; how it came to be up (or remained up) is for the investigation. No point in pointing the blame at the driver, FCC or anyone else at this stage.
http://www.london24.com/news/transp...riars_station_as_carriage_hits_roof_1_3171085
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25576100 (second most-read news article at the moment)
http://metro.co.uk/2014/01/02/trains-pantograph-crashes-into-roof-at-blackfriars-station-4247237/
Indeed all we know at present is that the pantograph was up at Blackfriars when it shouldn't be; how it came to be up (or remained up) is for the investigation. No point in pointing the blame at the driver, FCC or anyone else at this stage.
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CalderRail
Member
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I'm surprised there isn't an interlock that prevents drawing from the Third Rail while the Pantograph is raised.
PermitToTravel
Established Member
There is, isn't there? Otherwise there would have been quite a nice bang as the pan went live and earthed against the roof
Why would it be needed? At stations like farringdon and Drayton park you need to be able to draw from both shoes and pan to leave the station as when you put the pan up the shoes are still on the 3rd rail. An alarm goes off in the cab to warn you however.
There isn't, no. See above post for explanation why not but when leaving Drayton park or farringdon having put the pan up you run with both shoes and pan in contact with the electrics.
If it is indeed a train fault -who is ultimately responsible?
(I'm not suggesting all technical faults are practically preventable however if the train was serviced every 5mins all technical faults would be less likely.
Someone somewhere has drawn a line somewhere and decided how often potential problems should be checked for)
To be fair, even if it was driver error then the driver dosnt deserve the comments they are getting on twitter and in the press. It wasn't deliberate and it wasn't incompetence. It would be exactly the same as any other operational incident. I'm not speculating what happened but putting the pan up is just a case of pressing the wrong button without thinking-no different to opening the doors the wrong side or stopping at a red signal away from a station and opening the doors.
CalderRail
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I assumed that the switchover between the two power source was performed while at a standstill, due to the voltage differences it would surely be tricky to go from one power source to the other while under operation?
At Drayton, aren't the shoes isolated from the running gear when the OHLE is supplying the juice?
As to why it would be needed.... *points at pictures*
You can be sure that whatever the truth, the anti-FCC brigade will be adding this to their list of reasons why FCC are crap and should be stripped of the franchise etc.
Metro has written: "The apparatus seems to have not been lowered at Farringdon station before it went straight into the ceiling at Blackfriar’s station on Thursday morning."
Which is stupid. It's bloody obvious it wasn't lowered as you only need to look at the photo. How dumb to try and be vague on this, yet not mention anywhere that it's not clear if it was a train fault or driver error.
All it means is that people will jump to one conclusion - driver error. Case closed...
Meanwhile London24 has gone with:
"The First Capital Connect service blocked the southbound lane after the driver raised the pantograph and hit the ceiling."
So definitely the driver at fault from their detailed investigation.
Only the BBC actually saw fit to write:
"It is not yet known how the carriage's pantograph - which connects the train to the overhead lines - came to hit the roof of the central London station."
Maybe the BBC should have asked Kate Nelson at London24! She obviously has the inside scoop.
Metro has written: "The apparatus seems to have not been lowered at Farringdon station before it went straight into the ceiling at Blackfriar’s station on Thursday morning."
Which is stupid. It's bloody obvious it wasn't lowered as you only need to look at the photo. How dumb to try and be vague on this, yet not mention anywhere that it's not clear if it was a train fault or driver error.
All it means is that people will jump to one conclusion - driver error. Case closed...
Meanwhile London24 has gone with:
"The First Capital Connect service blocked the southbound lane after the driver raised the pantograph and hit the ceiling."
So definitely the driver at fault from their detailed investigation.
Only the BBC actually saw fit to write:
"It is not yet known how the carriage's pantograph - which connects the train to the overhead lines - came to hit the roof of the central London station."
Maybe the BBC should have asked Kate Nelson at London24! She obviously has the inside scoop.
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The bull**** all rail staff have to deal with these days is probably because of privatisation. People see it as a profitable business rather than a service.
See they blame FCC - a business making profits... 'How dare they not provide a perfect service!!???'. Ultimately it's worse for the rail people now I think.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
All the articles are frustrating... Goes to show
ushawk
Established Member
The BBC look like the only Media who have written a story based on the facts, though referring it as a "crash" is a bit over dramatic. Collision seems more appropriate.
CatfordCat
Member
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If (as has been suggested in some quarters) the driver had forgotten to lower the pantograph at Farringdon (as I understand is normal practice)
then
a) wouldn't the pantograph have hit the roof of the Snow Hill Tunnel before it hit the roof at Blackfriars?
b) is there some warning system if a train with pantograph raised tries to enter Snow Hill tunnel?
c) would it have continued to draw dc traction current? - are the "raise / lower pantograph" and "switch between ac / dc traction current" separate actions on the driver's part? (I'm assuming the train can't decide for itself whether to draw ac or dc power - surely the train would get confused at Farringdon if that was the case)
then
a) wouldn't the pantograph have hit the roof of the Snow Hill Tunnel before it hit the roof at Blackfriars?
b) is there some warning system if a train with pantograph raised tries to enter Snow Hill tunnel?
c) would it have continued to draw dc traction current? - are the "raise / lower pantograph" and "switch between ac / dc traction current" separate actions on the driver's part? (I'm assuming the train can't decide for itself whether to draw ac or dc power - surely the train would get confused at Farringdon if that was the case)
ushawk
Established Member
Train strikes station - Train collides with station - either one is appropriate really.
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