FCC Staff Shortage

[PTF62]

Anyone know what the problem is, and are they going to sort it soon.

 

[thelem]

The drivers are refusing to work overtime because they haven't been given a payrise this year.

They don't seem to realise that we've got very low inflation at the moment, and lots of people have actually taken pay cuts or redundancy to keep their companies afloat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One in three companies didn't give a pay rise this year according to
http://www.i-l-m.com/publications/2...&articleheading=Firms+freeze+pay+to+save+jobs

In August the same site reported that the average pay rise was 1%.

 

[jopsuk]

Surely pay rises should be just as linked to the performance of the company itself as to the economy as a whole?
Also, it's surely a bad situation on the part of the company that they are so reliant on overtime to run a full service? Surely in the long run it must be cheaper to train up and employ enough staff, and have overtime purely for covering holidays and illnesses?

 

[73110]

@TheLem The drivers are not working overtime because of the way the company have treated them. They could have offered a 0% pay rise in April when the talks started but they have been holding off the talks with various excuses deliberately because they knew there would be some kind of backlash. Effectively they lied and they knew it. That is why the drivers are not working overtime.

The 0% deal wouldn't have been a problem as someone said they could offer more when the recession is over but the company are making millions in profit at the moment.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The drivers are refusing to work overtime because they haven't been given a payrise this year.

They don't seem to realise that we've got very low inflation at the moment, and lots of people have actually taken pay cuts or redundancy to keep their companies afloat.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One in three companies didn't give a pay rise this year according to
http://www.i-l-m.com/publications/2...&articleheading=Firms+freeze+pay+to+save+jobs

In August the same site reported that the average pay rise was 1%.

It is all very well people saying that staff at some companies have been offered and accepted a zero percent pay rise to help their companies. But First doesn't need any help, it is still making pot loads of cash.

 

[jon0844]

'Ground staff' appear to be upset about this as much as everyone else, as they're getting the backlash from passengers who aren't being told the truth - but are obviously not stupid now they've endured about two weeks of it. Even staff are not being told the full story, and are relying on hearsay and rumour (I've seen an internal memo and it just says what they want staff to relay to the public). I guess First is hoping that people will assume there's a staff shortage due to illness (e.g. swine flu) which sounds feasible.

In reality, I was told that there will be only four drivers (so far) turning up for work this Sunday - so expect the same headlines in the papers as London Midland on the 3rd September. That is assuming any of the papers ever bother to cover the story.

Finally, a lot of blame seems to be falling on the MD - and I heard people yesterday saying they wish Elaine Holt was still there because she was tough, but fair and always listened. More importanty, she made things happen quickly.

It does seem like FCC is slowly falling apart. Now its the drivers, but who next?

That said, I am not sure that it is fair to automatically expect more money because the company made more money - performance related pay could mean taking pay cuts when a company makes a loss, so it cuts both ways. I doubt most people want that sort of contract.

 

[O L Leigh]

This sounds like an awfully familiar story.

We're watching what happens on the other side of the fence and waiting to see whether they have learnt anything from us. I know that an O/T ban on our side wasn't very productive and it took a strike ballot to get any kind of offer at all.

O L Leigh

 

[Z12XE]

I know that an O/T ban on our side wasn't very productive and it took a strike ballot to get any kind of offer at all.

I wonder how long that dispute would have gone on for if the prospect of a sellout hadn't been ahead - Stagecoach took a strong interest and suddenly the NX management took its head out of the sand (a little bit anyway).........


Fattening up the Goose springs to mind

 

[O L Leigh]

Who can say. I don't find that the most convincing argument, though. I believe there were other internal factors at play.

O L Leigh

 

[73110]

It is almost like they don't want the franchise. I can't think of any other reason to be honest why they are letting things go this far. :?

 

[Aictos]

Well a popular rumour going around is that FCC will only have 14 drivers to cover the entire GN on Sunday so unless some agreement is done on Friday, I would strongly advise passengers not to travel on Sunday if possible.

However, I've also been told that management intend to run what trains they can where possible.

 

[jon0844]

That's up from the 4 talked about yesterday.

A guy at King's Cross (won't say who or when) was telling me that it costs FCC £2.5k for every train cancelled - and the bill is probably up to £500k or more already!

Is that actually true? I know they've been running buses in the evening at times, but goodness knows what they'll be doing Sunday! They're still not telling the poor staff who have to deal with the public, although the staff I've spoken to do at least know a lot more than they did - even if it's from asking other colleagues are more clued up.

 

[ungreat]

There was,I believe,an emergency meeting today called by management with staff reps.What the outcome was I do not know.

I will refrain from any further comment on this subject for now,as I suggest you do as well ajax103!

 

[jon0844]

I was told a meeting yesterday was cancelled last minute, so I hope that whatever happened today is beneficial for both passengers and drivers!

I had plans for Sunday, but I'm not taking a bloody rail replacement bus! At least not unless I can get money from Delay Repay for the fact that I'm going to get into London more than 30 minutes late by bus.

 

[Electrostar]

From an outsiders point of view I find it incredible that train companies rely on drivers working overtime and rest days. Most commuters would assume companies would employ enough people to cover all services. For the record I can understand drivers' frustration if the company has been avoiding pay talks.

What are the unions opinions on this: would they prefer the existing arrangement albeit with annual pay rises or for train companies to employ enough staff to cover services, thus potentially enlarging their membership but reducing the take-home pay of their existing members?

 

[jon0844]

There are a number of vacancies for FCC I believe, which is odd considering how many people apply each year to become a train driver. One must assume FCC doesn't actually want to fill those posts, and would rather have existing drivers volunteer.

Now, as the drivers presumably get paid extra (obviously) by working the extra services, then I would have thought that this is actually a pretty good way to make up for a pay rise - surely the extra overtime is far more than, say, 1 or 2% (let's face it, if they asked for more - they'd very quickly lose the support of everyone considering the year we've had).

Now if FCC makes record profits, that in itself isn't bad if the rest of the staff aren't awarding themselves huge bonuses; the extra profit is to be reinvested in the business. At least that's the general idea, but possibly not reality.

I generally support the drivers, and if they're going to do anything then don't work Sunday - cause chaos, get it into the papers (the only way anyone will likely take an interest) and keep working the peak and late night services. Then, you'll more likely have good support from the majority of people, especially commuters who have been hit hard with price increases for the last 4-5 years - and won't be getting hardly anything back in January.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Surely in the long run it must be cheaper to train up and employ enough staff, and have overtime purely for covering holidays and illnesses?

Not necessarily - more staff means more holiday pay, more sick pay, more training, more uniform - so its cheaper to employ less staff and pay out overtime.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, it must be cheaper to pay overtime - as there are many costs associated with employing another member of staff. It's obviously also harder to get rid of staff than it would be to simply reduce the offering of overtime if services were ever to be cut.

But, that's purely from a business point of view (the one FCC must be taking) as there are many advantages of having more staff - not least if loads of staff do go sick genuinely (not that we seem to be suffering the huge breakout of deadly swine flu that the media hoped for) and the company ever wanted to expand.

 

[Tom C]

It is hitting the Thameslink route a lot harder than it is on WAGN at the moment.

Today alone there are in excess of 30 cancellations, numerous short formations and numerous alterations and this has been pretty much the same story for the past fortnight.

Once again another last train has been chopped 2O40 (2207 SUO-LBG), last week 2V57 (2328 LBG-SUO) went at least twice.

On many occassions we have been left with 4 trains caped in a row in the middle of the afternoon and it is really starting to bite.

 

[EM2]

Tell me about it, Tom.
I had an earful last night from a bloke that I sent for the northbound 22.48 from STP, only for him to come back five minutes later, roaring at me that it had been cancelled and I didn't know what I was doing, yada-yada-yada. When I checked with Control, it had been cancelled between me telling him and him walking to the platform...
He was not happy.

And I'm due to be rostered on the FCC concourse this afternoon

 

[jon0844]

Do the drivers actually care about the staff having to work the front line and get the hassle? I'm presuming that, as it's still being kept fairly quiet, nobody is having a go at the drivers.

 

[philjo]

A message has now appeared on FCC website stating that there will be no service provided on the GN route this sunday

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/Main.php?iCmsPageId=502

 

[jon0844]

Wow, and I bet they expect us to believe they only just realised this was going to happen.

The press will at least pick up on this now, even though commuters have struggled on and off for two weeks and Sunday isn't anywhere near as important (in terms of people having to travel for work, as against - mostly - leisure purposes).

This is a huge PR fail for FCC. I have no doubt that even if Elaine Holt had been responsible for this, she would have made official statements and given the management side of the story (right or wrong). Personally, I doubt the drivers would even BE in this situation under the previous management - but that might be a rather blinkered opinion.

--

Update: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8344231.stm

The spokesman said pay talks are under way but these are not thought to have contributed to the current driver shortage problem.

The company is introducing a new type of train on Thameslink services between Brighton and Bedford that cross London via St Pancras station.

"A lot of drivers are being trained on this new equipment and are not available for extra shifts," the spokesman said.

"This has contributed to the current problems."

HAHAHA!!
(And if this is true, why is it the GN route that has NO services on Sunday?!)

A spokesman said the company was "disappointed" Remembrance Sunday services would be among those to be disrupted.

Now, that's just low. A clever way of trying to put all the blame on the drivers (or make them feel guilty); except if they're saying that they're ill or being trained - surely it's not their fault and why should they feel guilty? Another PR fail.

Lazy journalism and shame on the BBC for not verifying any details.

 

[87015]

Now, that's just low. A clever way of trying to put all the blame on the drivers (or make them feel guilty); except if they're saying that they're ill or being trained - surely it's not their fault and why should they feel guilty? Another PR fail.

Lazy journalism and shame on the BBC for not verifying any details.

Seems a reasonable point to me, there are plenty other weekends to have your picnic/bbq whatever it is to be called this time which wouldn't affect that group of people.

 

[jon0844]

I'm not sure anyone even considered what Sunday was, to be fair to the drivers. In fact, I bet FCC intended to keep quiet and perhaps someone realised what Sunday was and thought now was the time to issue a statement (two weeks late).

I have supported FCC no end over the years, and some might think I had some sort of stake in the company, but the way they have handled this situation has been appalling. The lack of information to the public that have had to endure so much grief and 'last minute' cancellations (despite the fact FCC would know in advance) shows a total lack of respect.

I am even surprised FCC kept quiet as in a war of words, you'd have expected them to blame the cancellations on the drivers from the outset.. and then lied about the reasons. Instead, they thought they could come up with the excuse of staff training and - as I predicted - staff illness.

To be honest, it will probably work fairly well until the press wake up. I guess nobody at any major newspaper actually uses FCC to get to/from work.

 

[Tom C]

Do the drivers actually care about the staff having to work the front line and get the hassle? I'm presuming that, as it's still being kept fairly quiet, nobody is having a go at the drivers.

Why would they have a go at the drivers? The drivers are doing absolutely nothing wrong as far as I am concerned.

Drivers are still working the normal working week, they are not on any sort of industrial action so I am not going to have a go at drivers for not working more than their contracted hours.

Its not a nice situation for front line staff however it goes back to the situation with London Midland crews not working Sundays, the company have not got enough staff to cover the service without resorting to overtime and the solution is to fill the depots with enough staff to run the service.

 

[jon0844]

People are going to blame the drivers aren't they! The drivers are refusing to work beyond their normal hours (which is perfectly fine) but when trains are being cancelled - I can't imagine many people having that much sympathy. Why would they? Why SHOULD they? It's the anger from the passengers that the drivers are hoping will force FCC into doing something.

If the drivers want to carry forward their protest by working to rule, they can't be naive enough to think they've got the full support of the public. But, it's the staff at the gates and in the ticket offices that will be getting the brunt of it all. Well, unless a driver is mobbed on the way to/from a train.

I am blaming FCC for this - but not just because of the pay situation (I am not going to get involved in whether 0, 0.5, 1, 2 or 100% pay rises are sustainable) but the lack of information to the public and the whole way they've handled it.

 

[Tom C]

People are going to blame the drivers aren't they! The drivers are refusing to work beyond their normal hours (which is perfectly fine) but when trains are being cancelled - I can't imagine many people having that much sympathy. Why would they? Why SHOULD they? It's the anger from the passengers that the drivers are hoping will force FCC into doing something.

Absolutely right, the drivers are completely blameless in all this. They are simply fulfilling their contracts and nothing more and the blame in all this falls squarely at FCC's door for not filling the depot establishments up to ensure a service will run come what may.

If the drivers want to carry forward their protest by working to rule, they can't be naive enough to think they've got the full support of the public. But, it's the staff at the gates and in the ticket offices that will be getting the brunt of it all. Well, unless a driver is mobbed on the way to/from a train.

We have had more than enough over the past two weeks from members of the public already and thats before an entire days service gets wiped. Everytime anything happens with the service it will always be the frontline staff who gets the brunt of it all and that goes from a service being 5 minutes late to what we are seeing now.

I am blaming FCC for this - but not just because of the pay situation (I am not going to get involved in whether 0, 0.5, 1, 2 or 100% pay rises are sustainable) but the lack of information to the public and the whole way they've handled it.

The pay situation has not gone down at all well across just about every grade within FCC, not just the drivers. The way the company have managed this on a IR basis is very poor which is fairly typical however the interaction with the public is even worse simply because they do not know how long this is going on for!

 

[73110]

There are a number of vacancies for FCC I believe, which is odd considering how many people apply each year to become a train driver. One must assume FCC doesn't actually want to fill those posts, and would rather have existing drivers volunteer.

Hi Jon, Your right about the vacancies. The company have a deal with the union who sanction rest day working a few months at a time. The deal is as long as the company advertise for drivers, the union will keep the rest day agreement going. If the company stop taking drivers on then they will have the rest day working stopped by the union.

Now, as the drivers presumably get paid extra (obviously) by working the extra services, then I would have thought that this is actually a pretty good way to make up for a pay rise - surely the extra overtime is far more than, say, 1 or 2% (let's face it, if they asked for more - they'd very quickly lose the support of everyone considering the year we've had).

It is a pretty good way for making up for a pay rise but what about those who don't work Rest Days/Sundays or any overtime at all. There are about only 40% of drivers who actually put their names down to work overtime, the rest like to have the days off. One of the nice things about FCC is the days off and the roster. 4 day 35hr working week. The time off is brilliant.

Now if FCC makes record profits, that in itself isn't bad if the rest of the staff aren't awarding themselves huge bonuses; the extra profit is to be reinvested in the business. At least that's the general idea, but possibly not reality.

First Group have been awarding the shareholders 10% minimum for the last few years and will do so until 2010. They make millions profit, its not going back into the business it is going into the pockets of the shareholders. The staff at all levels are not getting any rises but the shareholders are getting 10%, work that out!!

and keep working the peak and late night services. Then, you'll more likely have good support from the majority of people, especially commuters who have been hit hard with price increases for the last 4-5 years - and won't be getting hardly anything back in January.

Surely the point of all this is to hit back at the company forcing them to do something about it. Working the peak trains and late night trains would be playing right into their hands. What will they do then, nothing as the peak is covered, sod the rest. So like many other workers who do this kind of thing be it postmen or airline workers they hit the company hard where it is going to cause the most bother hoping the company will back down and sort the mess out quickly. Someone has yet to tell this to the lying management at First though! The drivers don't care about support from the commuters etc. It is the inept, lying management who are to blame for all this not the drivers, if it wasn't for the lies in the first place, last April then this could have been avoided!

The spokesman said pay talks are under way but these are not thought to have contributed to the current driver shortage problem.

The company is introducing a new type of train on Thameslink services between Brighton and Bedford that cross London via St Pancras station.

"A lot of drivers are being trained on this new equipment and are not available for extra shifts," the spokesman said.

"This has contributed to the current problems."

What an absolute load of old rubbish!!!! We all know the reason why, again the company are lying to the press now about this, how low can they go now!

At the moment almost all drivers on FCC are trained on 377's, what a blatant lie this 'Spokesman' is telling!
I only know of three drivers being trained on them right now!

As for the Sunday issue with it being Remembrance Sunday this was arranged quite hastily I believe and no one thought about the date to be honest.

Just heard today drivers talking about not working at all next week and missing next Sunday out altogether so things are going to get worse. That is unless the company offer something decent as the next round of pay talks is tomorrow, the 6th November. It is now up to the management to stop this and offer a decent pay deal. The ball is definitely in their court. It will be interesting to see the outcome of tomorrows talks.

 

[paul1609]

Now if FCC makes record profits, that in itself isn't bad if the rest of the staff aren't awarding themselves huge bonuses; the extra profit is to be reinvested in the business. At least that's the general idea, but possibly not reality.

.

Is this correct? I understood that whilst First Group was making a profit from its overall rail operations FCC was actually the worse performing franchise and was receiving maximum cap and collar protection from the DFT as its revenues were way below Firsts projections.

As I read it FCC may actually be making a loss for First Group. Any increase in costs (drivers wages) will have to be paid for by first group.