Female Drivers - What's it REALLY like?

[SJN]

I’ve not had any bad experiences in the Messroom. Yes there’s swearing which doesn’t bother me and I do it myself. There is banter but I’ve never found anything offensive or would class as a personal attack. If I did, I would definitely raise the issue with the person/s concerned straight away. There’s a few moans from both males and females about various other departments, eg Rosters, Control and Planning. All normal stuff really. It’s a great job and I enjoy it.

 

[Malaxa]

But industries differ, so your own experiences elsewhere aren’t directly relevant to the OP’s question, which is specifically about the experience of females on the railway.

It would be a great shame if females were put off applying because of sweeping generalisations and assumptions being made by people who don’t even work in the industry.

It would be good to hear from more female train drivers about their experiences.....

....especially in the freight sector.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Probably worth mentioning that all of this can vary hugely by TOC and even depot. There's four different messrooms that I use reasonably often, all the same TOC. Each one has a very different atmosphere and varying quality of facilities, I've never noticed any different/negative attitude towards female colleagues at any of them, though.

 

[357]

I'm wondering why this thread wants to know what it's REALLY like.

Is there an allegation that the publicly available information is false?

Or that the many female drivers who regularly post on social media are lying?

Is someone looking for a problem that doesn't exist?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm wondering why this thread wants to know what it's REALLY like.

Because all employers sing from the happy-clappy inclusivity hymn sheet publicly but the OP wants to know whether these employers also walk the walk?

Seems a fair enough question to me. No different to me asking my female mate who works on the oil rigs what it's really like (answer: not as good as her employer's HR would have you believe, but certainly not bad at all).

 

[357]

Because all employers sing from the happy-clappy inclusivity hymn sheet publicly but the OP wants to know whether these employers also walk the walk?

Seems a fair enough question to me. No different to me asking my female mate who works on the oil rigs what it's really like (answer: not as good as her employer's HR would have you believe, but certainly not bad at all).

Except as I said in my post, there are many male and female drivers from freight and passenger work who share their life online?

Unless you're suggesting that they are in some sort of agreement to spread propaganda?

 

[Lewisham2221]

Except as I said in my post, there are many male and female drivers from freight and passenger work who share their life online?

Unless you're suggesting that they are in some sort of agreement to spread propaganda?

Perhaps the OP hasn't come across any of those examples (I certainly haven't) and is simply asking for such examples here?

Not everything is a conspiracy.

 

[Tetchytyke]

xcept as I said in my post, there are many male and female drivers from freight and passenger work who share their life online?

I'm sure there are, but I'm also not really aware of many of them (I follow a woman Metropolitan Line driver on Threads and that's about it). Maybe the OP is the same.

It's also fair to say that most social media is sanitised. The people who don't sanitise it tend to find themselves in breach of their company's social media policies pretty quickly.

Asking a railway forum full of railway staff about their experiences of employment on the railway seems reasonable to me.

 

[Sly Sloth]

Tell me everything!

I’m not sure you wanted an answer!

Bloody women ruining all your fun! Thoughts and prayers for you at this difficult time.

Not at all and I didn’t suggest it did/would

I’m interested to hear about “banter” or what HR might call “inappropriate conduct at work.” Is it just female drivers or is it women in general that are fed up? I think you know the answer to that one. If you wouldn’t want someone to speak to your mum, wife, sister or daughter like that it’s probably best to keep your banter to yourself.

Only you have made this about misogyny!

Re. Going too long without a PNB and insufficient facilities. If you're on your period you're quite likely to need the bathroom more often and no one enjoys sitting down on a dirty toilet. These are actual physical needs, not luxuries, and it seems very harsh to complain about women looking after their health.

I don't think anyone agrees with me so I'll just see myself out!

I don’t disagree with you at all I was just pointing out some potential issues. Emergency PN’s can be taken at anytime regardless of gender!

 

[Krokodil]

However, the last 5 years or so has seen a sizeable change in attitudes from the female drivers coming through! Diagrams too long, too long before a PNB, inadequate facilities!

In my experience the biggest whingers are men. So are the biggest mickey-takers (the perpetual sicknotes etc.)

 

[nolypops83]

Just to clear a few things up

1. I was asking for the perspective of female drivers. If you're not female or sharing a female perspective (from a fellow driver) then this probably isn't the thread for you.
2. There's no agenda, no conspiracy, I just want to know what it's like. I don't go on social media much but as someone stated, this will be a filtered, company friendly perspective.
3. I have worked in all sorts of jobs and there is a difference between banter and inappropriate conduct. I have been on the receiving end of both. Don't mind good natured banter, draw the line at inappropriate sexual comments, touching, stalking, etc. I'm sure this goes for the majority of men too. When I've complained it's been ignored.
4. Not expecting any special treatment, just need somewhere separate to pee and a uniform that fits.

Thanks for your comments so far, most of them have been helpful.

 

[AverageJoe]

I’ve been in numerous mess rooms and witnessed foul language, crude talk and what some may describe as inappropriate behaviour from both men and women alike.

I take noise cancelling earphones and keep myself to myself on the whole.

Those I’ve noticed that are recipients of the banter are those that give it out and chose to be amongst that group of people.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Just to clear a few things up

1. I was asking for the perspective of female drivers. If you're not female or sharing a female perspective (from a fellow driver) then this probably isn't the tread for you.
2. There's no agenda, no conspiracy, I just want to know what it's like. I don't go on social media much but as someone stated, this will be a filtered, company friendly perspective.
3. I have worked in all sorts of jobs and there is a difference between banter and inappropriate conduct. I have been on the receiving end of both. Don't mind good natured banter, draw the line at inappropriate sexual comments, touching, stalking, etc. I'm sure this goes for the majority of men too. When I've complained it's been ignored.
4. Not expecting any special treatment, just need somewhere separate to pee and a uniform that fits.

Thanks for your comments so far, most of them have been helpful.

Sorry but it sounds a lot like you're looking for confirmation of a problem you think exists, when in all likelihood, it doesn't.

 

[mimoma]

Sorry but it sounds a lot like you're looking for confirmation of a problem you think exists, when in all likelihood, it doesn't.

It doesn’t sound like she’s looking for that at all, just an honest answer that hasn’t been made squeaky clean for social media.

 

[nolypops83]

Sorry but it sounds a lot like you're looking for confirmation of a problem you think exists, when in all likelihood, it doesn't.

You can think what you like, I’m asking what it’s like to be a female driver, if you haven’t got anything productive to add then I’m not sure why you’re here.

I’ve been in numerous mess rooms and witnessed foul language, crude talk and what some may describe as inappropriate behaviour from both men and women alike.

I take noise cancelling earphones and keep myself to myself on the whole.

Those I’ve noticed that are recipients of the banter are those that give it out and chose to be amongst that group of people.

Thank god for noise cancelling headphones! I’ve just got new pair of Bose over ear which a fantastic. Makes public transport tolerable

 

[Twotwo]

Female toc driver here. I've had no bad experience. Tbf I think some of the men are more careful in what they say in the beginning (not sure if they've been negative experience before) but once they gauge that your cool and can take the banter then they chat more freely.

Uniform is rubbish, I wear leggings as it's the only thing I feel comfortable in.

In regards to the moaning, I think it's just a driver thing as everyone seems to be doing it.

 

[Horizon22]

Because all employers sing from the happy-clappy inclusivity hymn sheet publicly but the OP wants to know whether these employers also walk the walk?

That's what I gathered as well. What a company likes to present itself as may be very different to the reality.

 

[nolypops83]

I’ve not had any bad experiences in the Messroom. Yes there’s swearing which doesn’t bother me and I do it myself. There is banter but I’ve never found anything offensive or would class as a personal attack. If I did, I would definitely raise the issue with the person/s concerned straight away. There’s a few moans from both males and females about various other departments, eg Rosters, Control and Planning. All normal stuff really. It’s a great job and I enjoy it.

Female toc driver here. I've had no bad experience. Tbf I think some of the men are more careful in what they say in the beginning (not sure if they've been negative experience before) but once they gauge that your cool and can take the banter then they chat more freely.

Uniform is rubbish, I wear leggings as it's the only thing I feel comfortable in.

In regards to the moaning, I think it's just a driver thing as everyone seems to be doing it.

Thanks both! I worked in the civil service years ago so I'm used to moaning.

 

[357]

Female toc driver here. I've had no bad experience. Tbf I think some of the men are more careful in what they say in the beginning (not sure if they've been negative experience before) but once they gauge that your cool and can take the banter then they chat more freely.

Uniform is rubbish, I wear leggings as it's the only thing I feel comfortable in.

In regards to the moaning, I think it's just a driver thing as everyone seems to be doing it.

Don't worry
You re e amongst the most cool

 

[Sly Sloth]

Just to clear a few things up

1. I was asking for the perspective of female drivers. If you're not female or sharing a female perspective (from a fellow driver) then this probably isn't the thread for you.
2. There's no agenda, no conspiracy, I just want to know what it's like. I don't go on social media much but as someone stated, this will be a filtered, company friendly perspective.
3. I have worked in all sorts of jobs and there is a difference between banter and inappropriate conduct. I have been on the receiving end of both. Don't mind good natured banter, draw the line at inappropriate sexual comments, touching, stalking, etc. I'm sure this goes for the majority of men too. When I've complained it's been ignored.
4. Not expecting any special treatment, just need somewhere separate to pee and a uniform that fits.

Thanks for your comments so far, most of them have been helpful.

You’ll definitely get somewhere to pee! Not sure about the uniform! Keep those headphones close at hand and you’ll be reet.

and before I get the massive misogynistic backlash! The railway runs on goodwill, if you need a rest day swap, someone to do your Sunday (toc specific) a shift swap for an earlier/later finish! You’ll find these things so much easier if you integrate yourself fully without fear

 

[Flange Squeal]

4. Not expecting any special treatment, just need somewhere separate to pee and a uniform that fits.

Until fairly recently I was at a multi-depot train operating company. I can't think of any train crew depots that didn't have separate male and female toilets and I'd say most breaks were taken at train crew depots, so the vast majority of breaks were taken at places with separate facilities.

Scattered around though were various other places you would have some of your breaks rostered, away from train crew depots. These were typically rooms somewhere within a station building containing the basics of sink, microwave, tables and chairs etc, of which some had separate male/female toilets but some were a single unisex cubicle with toilet and wash basin self contained within it. These were typically at larger stations that did also have public toilets open for most of the day, so there is a potential option to use a dedicated female public toilet, but the staff toilet itself was a shared unisex cubicle. Depending where you were based on the network though, you may never encounter these facilities as they were typically at interchange stations where only crew from certain depots that signed the branch lines from them would ever have a break there, with other depots only ever touching the through trains so not having breaks there.

Some stations that weren't staffed all day did have a staff toilet available, but again these were typically a shared facility - usually at a remote terminus where you could pop in if the need arises while changing ends of the train before your return journey as at the time not all trains serving them had toilets.

 

[Krokodil]

Until fairly recently I was at a multi-depot train operating company. I can't think of any train crew depots that didn't have separate male and female toilets and I'd say most breaks were taken at train crew depots, so the vast majority of breaks were taken at places with separate facilities.

I can only think of Manchester Airport, where the toilet is a single room accessible one. Not sure how many guards and drivers at TPE are wheelchair users but I suppose that the current messroom might have had another purpose in the past.

 

[357]

You can think what you like, I’m asking what it’s like to be a female driver, if you haven’t got anything productive to add then I’m not sure why you’re here.

It's a discussion forum and people are having a discussion.

Unless you're now looking to exclude certain categories of people from participating in this discussion?

Seriously, just search female train driver on tiktok or Instagram. There's loads and I'm sure they will be happy to answer your questions if you'd rather ask them out of the public eye.

 

[nolypops83]

It's a discussion forum and people are having a discussion.

Unless you're now looking to exclude certain categories of people from participating in this discussion?

Seriously, just search female train driver on tiktok or Instagram. There's loads and I'm sure they will be happy to answer your questions if you'd rather ask them out of the public eye.

I asking what it's like to be a female train driver. That's the discussion I want to have, not whether or not it's ok for me to ask a question on a public forum or if I have an agenda for posting.

Seriously, if you don't have anything relevant to add to the discussion then feel free to move along. There have been lots of helpful posts from both female drivers and male drivers with female colleagues. This is the railways jobs and careers forum, right?

The irony of so many blokes trying to derail (pun not intended) this conversation is not lost on me. Men and women get treated differently, that's just something we have to deal with on the daily. I've been driving a car for 22 years and the comments I get about being a "women driver" still happen to this day. Women have to deal with "can I speak to your husband" when they go to a garage, or buy a car, do anything remotely technical or physical. I'm in no way suggesting that the railway is a cesspool of misogyny, but I think it's a natural question for someone to ask. It would be the same for any person from a minority group, and unless you are in that position it can be hard to understand. If you've never had to walk through a warehouse full of blokes where they loudly try and guess your bra size or rate you and your colleagues based on how good they think you'll be in bed then I'm happy for you. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to men either, it shouldn't happen to anyone. When it comes to customers I've had my fair share of arseholes from both sexes, but I've never had a women grope my arse or breasts, or ask if the carpet matched the curtains to try to humiliate me. Not all men are like this, but it's enough of a problem for it to be experienced by most women. I've so many more stories I could add, this is the tip of the iceberg, I just wanted to add some context for those wondering why I might be asking.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I asking what it's like to be a female train driver. That's the discussion I want to have, not whether or not it's ok for me to ask a question on a public forum or if I have an agenda for posting.

Seriously, if you don't have anything relevant to add to the discussion then feel free to move along. There have been lots of helpful posts from both female drivers and male drivers with female colleagues. This is the railways jobs and careers forum, right?

The irony of so many blokes trying to derail (pun not intended) this conversation is not lost on me. Men and women get treated differently, that's just something we have to deal with on the daily. I've been driving a car for 22 years and the comments I get about being a "women driver" still happen to this day. Women have to deal with "can I speak to your husband" when they go to a garage, or buy a car, do anything remotely technical or physical. I'm in no way suggesting that the railway is a cesspool of misogyny, but I think it's a natural question for someone to ask. It would be the same for any person from a minority group, and unless you are in that position it can be hard to understand. If you've never had to walk through a warehouse full of blokes where they loudly try and guess your bra size or rate you and your colleagues based on how good they think you'll be in bed then I'm happy for you. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to men either, it shouldn't happen to anyone. When it comes to customers I've had my fair share of arseholes from both sexes, but I've never had a women grope my arse or breasts, or ask if the carpet matched the curtains to try to humiliate me. Not all men are like this, but it's enough of a problem for it to be experienced by most women. I've so many more stories I could add, this is the tip of the iceberg, I just wanted to add some context for those wondering why I might be asking.

Like I said, looking for confirmation of a problem you think exists.

Your attitude towards males in general, not just your potential colleagues, comes off poorly.

I'm sorry if you've had bad experiences in previous working environments, but you're projecting this on to an open forum then taking an attitude when you don't get replies you agree with.

You seem to think because it's a predominantly male environment with a banterous nature it must be inappropriate.

It isn't for 99.99% of the time. And that 0.01% is treated harshly.

 

[AverageJoe]

Your attitude towards males in general, not just your potential colleagues, comes off poorly.

I would agree with this.

There has been some quite dismissive and sharp responses to which I don’t quite see the need.

If someone walks in to this job looking for opportunities to be offended then it will happen quickly.

If we were to turn this thread on its head and have a male move in to a female dominated industry and ask these same questions with the same manner and attitude the male would get slaughtered.

As I said earlier, I’ve seen both men and women act inappropriately in this industry.

The agenda of this thread is almost leaning down the path of can a woman survive in this industry dominated by horrible men.

Most the guys are nice, have wives and kids and treat women with utmost respect.

We are not cavemen.

To add to that I’ve seen female employees say things to men that if it was reversed the man would be potentially looking for a new job.

So the way I look at it, if you are a decent person, male or female then you will be fine with your colleagues.

If you are a horrible person male or female you will have a tough time.

If you come in to the job with a chip on your shoulder and looking for issues you will find them.

Hope this helps.

 

[357]

I asking what it's like to be a female train driver. That's the discussion I want to have, not whether or not it's ok for me to ask a question on a public forum or if I have an agenda for posting.

Seriously, if you don't have anything relevant to add to the discussion then feel free to move along. There have been lots of helpful posts from both female drivers and male drivers with female colleagues. This is the railways jobs and careers forum, right?

The irony of so many blokes trying to derail (pun not intended) this conversation is not lost on me. Men and women get treated differently, that's just something we have to deal with on the daily. I've been driving a car for 22 years and the comments I get about being a "women driver" still happen to this day. Women have to deal with "can I speak to your husband" when they go to a garage, or buy a car, do anything remotely technical or physical. I'm in no way suggesting that the railway is a cesspool of misogyny, but I think it's a natural question for someone to ask. It would be the same for any person from a minority group, and unless you are in that position it can be hard to understand. If you've never had to walk through a warehouse full of blokes where they loudly try and guess your bra size or rate you and your colleagues based on how good they think you'll be in bed then I'm happy for you. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to men either, it shouldn't happen to anyone. When it comes to customers I've had my fair share of arseholes from both sexes, but I've never had a women grope my arse or breasts, or ask if the carpet matched the curtains to try to humiliate me. Not all men are like this, but it's enough of a problem for it to be experienced by most women. I've so many more stories I could add, this is the tip of the iceberg, I just wanted to add some context for those wondering why I might be asking.

The irony that in your post you have assumed my gender and assumed I'm not from a minority group is simply perfect.

Your attitude towards males in general, not just your potential colleagues, comes off poorly.

Agreed. I'd definitely put this one in the "likely to have multiple instructors" category, if she manages to pass the tests and interviews.

To add to that I’ve seen female employees say things to men that if it was reversed the man would be potentially looking for a new job.

Some time ago my train was crush loaded, the rear cab had three members of staff in there and the front had me driving and another driver sitting in the instructors seat.

A female driver suggested she can sit on my knee.

I didn't run to HR and report sexual abuse because it was a joke. We smiled and laughed.

The other way round may well have been viewed differently by onlookers, if I suggested she sits on my knee.

(For the record this isn't my current employer and nobody ended up sitting on anyone's knee while I was driving the train)

 

[Cowley]

I think everyone should cool off for a couple of hours here…

 

[transportphoto]

Good evening,

A good few hours have elapsed, I’ve opted to reopen the thread.

I realise that by its nature this topic of conversation is controversial, and from that there will be views that are likely to conflict with those held by others.

Let’s refocus on the main questions asked by @nolypops83:

Do your male colleagues treat you differently, are they generally OK? What are the toilet facilities like? Are the uniforms comfortable and fit well? Any tips and advice in general for female divers. Tell me everything!

Let’s talk about toilet facilities, let’s talk about your experiences with uniform as a TOC member of staff, etc.

Let’s stay positive, let’s stay respectful, and try not to antagonise or alienate.

I’m going to keep an eye on the thread this evening, but please do make use of the report function as you deem suitable.

Take care,

TP

 

[godfreycomplex]

Without going too far into what's gone before, on the signalling side it has been an issue that womens' toilets can have issues being maintained to the same standard as mens' ones. Faults not getting reported/attended to, not getting restocked or cleaned to the same extent, that kind of thing. Is that an issue on the driving side?