Ffestiniog Round Robin

[Old Yard Dog]

The validity map for this excellent value, but poorly advertised, ticket includes Llandudno and Pwllheli. Does this mean that holders starting elsewhere can include return trips to these terminii or must they confine themselves to Llandudno Junction and Porthmadog?

 

[Spaceship323]

The validity map for this excellent value, but poorly advertised, ticket includes Llandudno and Pwllheli. Does this mean that holders starting elsewhere can include return trips to these terminii or must they confine themselves to Llandudno Junction and Porthmadog?

No, you will need to stay in the circle unless starting fron Pwllheli, Llandudno (or Aberystwyth / Holyhead) as it's a 1-way circular ticket...NOT A ROVER

 

[MrJeeves]

NOT A ROVER

Of course. It's not a rover if you just ignore all the text on every website that states that it's a rover...

 

[nwales58]

Of course. It's not a rover if you just ignore all the text on every website that states that it's a rover...

The only websites that are relevant contractually are National Rail and TfW. Both state one journey around the designated circuit in either direction. Name is Round Robin, not Rover.

 

[MrJeeves]

The only websites that are relevant contractually are National Rail and TfW. Both state one journey around the designated circuit in either direction. Name is Round Robin, not Rover.

Both list them on their Rangers and Rovers sections, though.

In practice, I think most staff would be pragmatic and not mind much. When I did the journey a few weekends ago, there was little care in the world whether I was getting off at Minffordd, Porthmadog or even Pwllheli at the very least, but obviously my one experience can't represent all TfW staff.

In my opinion, if TfW don't intend for the ticket to be valid when visiting the spurs, they should use the same dotted lines they use on the map for journeys from Birmingham, Manchester, etc. Then it would be very clear that these are only valid if the ticket is issued to/from stations on these branches.

 

[30907]

Both list them on their Rangers and Rovers sections, though.

In practice, I think most staff would be pragmatic and not mind much. When I did the journey a few weekends ago, there was little care in the world whether I was getting off at Minffordd, Porthmadog or even Pwllheli at the very least, but obviously my one experience can't represent all TfW staff.

In my opinion, if TfW don't intend for the ticket to be valid when visiting the spurs, they should use the same dotted lines they use on the map for journeys from Birmingham, Manchester, etc. Then it would be very clear that these are only valid if the ticket is issued to/from stations on these branches.

View attachment 162882

Except that the dotted bits refer to origins that charge an extra fare IIRC?

 

[MrJeeves]

Except that the dotted bits refer to origins that charge an extra fare IIRC?

The map simply states the dotted sections are valid on Ffest RR tickets issued with an origin of those stations. The same wording could be used on the maps if you simply add the names of the stations on those branches into the map key, it would just happen to be that there is no difference in price from some of the stations listed.

The fact that there is an extra charge in reality isn't mentioned on the map itself, but clearly is the reason for those routes not being included in the basic validity of the ticket.

 

[Watershed]

Both list them on their Rangers and Rovers sections, though.

In practice, I think most staff would be pragmatic and not mind much. When I did the journey a few weekends ago, there was little care in the world whether I was getting off at Minffordd, Porthmadog or even Pwllheli at the very least, but obviously my one experience can't represent all TfW staff.

In my opinion, if TfW don't intend for the ticket to be valid when visiting the spurs, they should use the same dotted lines they use on the map for journeys from Birmingham, Manchester, etc. Then it would be very clear that these are only valid if the ticket is issued to/from stations on these branches.

View attachment 162882

Indeed - if it's supposedly a "round robin" ticket that is strictly valid for one circular journey only, how can it be valid to travel on the Pwllheli/Aberystwyth/Holyhead "branches"?

Your proposed approach would be one option but given that this is not what the map says at current, I would suggest it has to be valid for unlimited travel in reality.

 

[Haywain]

Both list them on their Rangers and Rovers sections, though.

In practice, I think most staff would be pragmatic and not mind much. When I did the journey a few weekends ago, there was little care in the world whether I was getting off at Minffordd, Porthmadog or even Pwllheli at the very least, but obviously my one experience can't represent all TfW staff.

In my opinion, if TfW don't intend for the ticket to be valid when visiting the spurs, they should use the same dotted lines they use on the map for journeys from Birmingham, Manchester, etc. Then it would be very clear that these are only valid if the ticket is issued to/from stations on these branches.

View attachment 162882

I see we've got a new station at Portmeirion!

 

[Belperpete]

View attachment 162882

Any significance to the way Liverpool Lime Street is represented? Compared to say Manchester and Birmingham. Going by the size of the roundel, Liverpool must be the tiniest place on the map, even less significant than the mighty metropolises of Wem and Craven Arms.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Muddying the waters, other “round robin” tickets (NorthEast, NorthWest, East Yorkshire, Cumbria) are treated as if they are day rovers.

 

[30907]

Muddying the waters, other “round robin” tickets (NorthEast, NorthWest, East Yorkshire, Cumbria) are treated as if they are day rovers.

Do you mean by that that they are valid for out-and-back journeys?

 

[lyndhurst25]

Do you mean by that that they are valid for out-and-back journeys?

Supposedly. You can double back, go clockwise then anti-clockwise, vice versa, or go round and round and round! Note that the Cumbria Round Robin includes the Windermere branch. Do these tickets even have an origin station printed on them? For example.

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

However, the Ffestiniog ticket is different, as it is always issued from “somewhere” and I don’t think that it is in the Rovers & Rangers menu on ticket machines.

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[30907]

Supposedly. You can double back, go clockwise then anti-clockwise, vice versa, or go round and round and round! Note that the Cumbria Round Robin includes the Windermere branch.

Thanks. The Northern blurb starts "take the train in either direction on this circular tour" - but this one is described as a Round Robin Ranger....

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Be right in saying that when using the Ffestiniog Round Robin ticket, you just get a single, one-way journey on the Ffestiniog Railway, assuming it's actually running?

 

[rick9525]

I am looking to do this trip from Manchester but due to how long it takes I may not have the time to do the whole circuit. Can I take a TFW train to start at Shrewsbury, do most of the circuit and take a TFW service back to Manchester from Chester rather than carrying on and coming back from Shrewsbury? Thanks.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I am looking to do this trip from Manchester but due to how long it takes I may not have the time to do the whole circuit. Can I take a TFW train to start at Shrewsbury, do most of the circuit and take a TFW service back to Manchester from Chester rather than carrying on and coming back from Shrewsbury? Thanks.

Believe that travel from Manchester to start/finish the Ffestiniog Round Robin is permitted via Chester and/or via Crewe.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Be right in saying that when using the Ffestiniog Round Robin ticket, you just get a single, one-way journey on the Ffestiniog Railway, assuming it's actually running?

p
That is right. I was wondering though, what do you about securing a place on the Ffestiniog Railway train of your choice, now that they seem to be pushing a book-in-advance system? Can you ring up and book a seat in advance, or do you just have to turn up and chance it?

 

[rick9525]

Believe that travel from Manchester to start/finish the Ffestiniog Round Robin is permitted via Chester and/or via Crewe.

Thanks, I could ee I could go via both but it would be daft if you could not mix and match start points.

 

[MrJeeves]

Be right in saying that when using the Ffestiniog Round Robin ticket, you just get a single, one-way journey on the Ffestiniog Railway, assuming it's actually running?

In theory yes? When myself and a friend took it from Porthmadog to Blaenau, noone really knew what the ticket was except just one lady at the booking office who effectively made us a booking with a 100% discount on the train.

She did say it's better to call up in advance to book a place, but when we did it we were basically the only people in the carriage (if you're only going one way, they put you in the "intermediate carriage" with unreserved seating, or at least did with us).

There was no recording of ticket information or anything, though, and we got the ticket back (it's issued in two parts so I was expecting them to keep one part) but I'd think they see so few of them that if you tried at the same ticket office twice they'd definitely remember!

I do seem to recall that the lady asked if we were doing a return journey or not, though!

Can you ring up and book a seat in advance, or do you just have to turn up and chance it?

TLDR from my reply: either is fine. Phoning will effectively guarantee a spot, but it wasn't busy on the day either.

 

[TrainTraveler]

A couple of observations:

1) If you do it on a quiet day the Ffestioniog part is "upgradable" on the train to use the observation car. you can see if that is possible when phoning the Ffestiniog.

2) My guess is that the end points such as Llandudno allow you to start and end your circle there not make an extra part of the trip.

When I did this trip a bit over a year ago, I bought a return ticket to Llandudno from Llandudno Junction to avoid an hour on the station. Alternatively I beleve there is somewhere for a breakfast near Llandudno Junction but the run to Llandudno is nice.

I started from Shrewsbury. When picking your seat on the leg to Llandudno Junction from Shrewsbury I hadn't been aware of the reverse my train made at Chester so I was sitting on the "wrong side" along the coast and the train was quite full.

It's a super day out.

Enjoy!

 

[Spaceship323]

Alternatively I beleve there is somewhere for a breakfast near Llandudno Junction

The cafe on the platform is nice and modern with a selection of toasties and snacks and great coffee

 

[Sniffingmoose]

Its a great ticket which I have tried twice starting from Birmingham and failed to accomplish the whole journey twice. 1st time I found that the Festiniog Railway did not do the who journey on a Friday and so I had to find and use a local bus to get to Blaenau Ffestiniog from Porthmadog. The second time I tried it the other way around and the Llandudno Jn to Blaenau Ffestiniog train was stopped at the 1st stop due to a problem with the track ahead. Train had to reverse back to Llandudno Jn. No idea when and if the problem would of been sorted out so I had to go back the way I came. May be I will be lucky the 3rd time I try.

 

[bspahh]

2) My guess is that the end points such as Llandudno allow you to start and end your circle there not make an extra part of the trip.

When I did the trip, I stopped at Llandudno to get a USB cable. I think my ticket was checked at the barriers, but I'm not 100% sure. Whatever, I didn't have any problems.

I started from Sandwell & Dudley as it has a big free car park.

 

[MrJeeves]

May be I will be lucky the 3rd time I try.

Sounds like I got lucky doing it first time! Took about 14 hours in total, and I went the other way around the loop.

Had a nice 45 minute walk around Blaenau, and a stop at a local fish and chips shop by the Co-op.

08:22 Birmingham New Street to Machynlleth
10:55 Machynlleth to Porthmadog
14:20 Porthmadog Harbour to Blaenau Ffestiniog
17:38 Blaenau Ffestiniog to Llandudno Junction
18:55 Llandudno Junction to Chester
20:26 Chester to Shrewsbury
21:30 Shrewsbury to Birmingham New Street

 

[_toommm_]

I am looking to do this trip from Manchester but due to how long it takes I may not have the time to do the whole circuit. Can I take a TFW train to start at Shrewsbury, do most of the circuit and take a TFW service back to Manchester from Chester rather than carrying on and coming back from Shrewsbury? Thanks.

You can definitely do it in a day. I did it back in 2019 as follows:

25 Jul 2019

Flowery Field

Manchester Piccadilly (p1)

323228

6mi 66ch

2G42

07:03

07:19

1m E

16m

25.6mph

25 Jul 2019

Manchester Piccadilly (p13)

Crewe (p5)

390151

30mi 70ch

1R20

07:56

08:35

6m

39m

47.5mph

25 Jul 2019

Crewe (p11)

Chester (p1)

221105

21mi 11ch

1D81

08:48

09:07

1m E

19m

66.8mph

25 Jul 2019

Chester (p3B)

Llandudno Junction

175110

44mi 28ch

1D11

09:23

10:16

1m

53m

50.2mph

25 Jul 2019

Llandudno Junction

Blaenau Ffestiniog

150278

27mi 37ch

2D14

10:32

11:32

2m

1h

27.5mph

25 Jul 2019

Minffordd

Pwllheli (p1)

158818

15mi 12ch

2J07

12:52

13:22

7m

30m

30.3mph

25 Jul 2019

Pwllheli (p1)

Dovey Junction (p1)

158818

53mi 67ch

2G55

13:37

15:59

13m

2h 22m

22.7mph

25 Jul 2019

Dovey Junction (p2)

Aberystwyth (p1)

158829

16mi 57ch

1Z19

17:05

17:29

10m

24m

41.8mph

25 Jul 2019

Aberystwyth (p1)

Shrewsbury

158829

81mi 48ch

1G65

17:35

19:37

19m

2h 2m

40.1mph

25 Jul 2019

Shrewsbury

Manchester Piccadilly (p10)

175102

63mi 50ch

1W20

19:55

21:09

3m

1h 14m

51.6mph

25 Jul 2019

Manchester Piccadilly

Flowery Field

BUS

6mi 66ch

0B00

21:31

22:07

27m

36m

11.4mph

 

[rick9525]

You can definitely do it in a day. I did it back in 2019 as follows:

25 Jul 2019

Flowery Field

Manchester Piccadilly (p1)

323228

6mi 66ch

2G42

07:03

07:19

1m E

16m

25.6mph

25 Jul 2019

Manchester Piccadilly (p13)

Crewe (p5)

390151

30mi 70ch

1R20

07:56

08:35

6m

39m

47.5mph

25 Jul 2019

Crewe (p11)

Chester (p1)

221105

21mi 11ch

1D81

08:48

09:07

1m E

19m

66.8mph

25 Jul 2019

Chester (p3B)

Llandudno Junction

175110

44mi 28ch

1D11

09:23

10:16

1m

53m

50.2mph

25 Jul 2019

Llandudno Junction

Blaenau Ffestiniog

150278

27mi 37ch

2D14

10:32

11:32

2m

1h

27.5mph

25 Jul 2019

Minffordd

Pwllheli (p1)

158818

15mi 12ch

2J07

12:52

13:22

7m

30m

30.3mph

25 Jul 2019

Pwllheli (p1)

Dovey Junction (p1)

158818

53mi 67ch

2G55

13:37

15:59

13m

2h 22m

22.7mph

25 Jul 2019

Dovey Junction (p2)

Aberystwyth (p1)

158829

16mi 57ch

1Z19

17:05

17:29

10m

24m

41.8mph

25 Jul 2019

Aberystwyth (p1)

Shrewsbury

158829

81mi 48ch

1G65

17:35

19:37

19m

2h 2m

40.1mph

25 Jul 2019

Shrewsbury

Manchester Piccadilly (p10)

175102

63mi 50ch

1W20

19:55

21:09

3m

1h 14m

51.6mph

25 Jul 2019

Manchester Piccadilly

Flowery Field

BUS

6mi 66ch

0B00

21:31

22:07

27m

36m

11.4mph

Cheers but I plan to have a 2 hour break at Porthmadog so by starting at Shrewsbury and ending at Chester I can cover all I want to see in a day.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I used the Ffestiniog RR from Chester yesterday, taking an additional ride into Llandudno, which I paid extra for, to guarantee a seat on the train down to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

The connection at BFF is tight (13 mins) and the route to the FR platform less than obvious. Expecting the 1140 FR train to be very busy, I emailed the FR in advance asking about seat reservations. They emailed me back a "booking" which guaranteed me a place in a 2-person bay, but not a specific seat. Probably a wise precaution to take on a busy day. I resisted the temptation to add a return trip from Minffordd to Pwllheli but the times do allow it.

Things went awry afterwards - see my thread on

2G65 extended to Shrewsbury

I boarded the 1537 Pwllheli to Machynlleth at Fairbourne where it was 39 mins late. The largely single track line was having a bad day due the axle counter problems on an earlier working. I expected a long wait at MCN followed by a panicky 1 min connection on to the Chester train at Shrewsbury...

www.railforums.co.uk

I had planned to do the Fairbourne Railway from Fairbourne, but my TfW train from Portmadog was so late that I ended up getting off at Barmouth and taking the ferry. This boards and unboards on the beach via a narrow plank and is very difficult for the elderly or less mobile. The Darjeeling brochure that I picked up in the West Highland Heritage Railway bookshop ended up in the river but was recovered by the kind ferryman. I thus missed out on the impressive Barmouth viaduct which I had hoped to do twice.

Unlike other posters, almost everybody from Chester ticket office staff to the conductors on TfW and FR, seemed familiar with this excellent value but very poorly advertised ticket.

 

[_toommm_]

I used the Ffestiniog RR from Chester yesterday, taking an additional ride into Llandudno, which I paid extra for, to guarantee a seat on the train down to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

The connection at BFF is tight (13 mins) and the route to the FR platform less than obvious. Expecting the 1140 FR train to be very busy, I emailed the FR in advance asking about seat reservations. They emailed me back a "booking" which guaranteed me a place in a 2-person bay, but not a specific seat. Probably a wise precaution to take on a busy day. I resisted the temptation to add a return trip from Minffordd to Pwllheli but the times do allow it.

Things went awry afterwards - see my thread on

2G65 extended to Shrewsbury

I boarded the 1537 Pwllheli to Machynlleth at Fairbourne where it was 39 mins late. The largely single track line was having a bad day due the axle counter problems on an earlier working. I expected a long wait at MCN followed by a panicky 1 min connection on to the Chester train at Shrewsbury...

www.railforums.co.uk

I had planned to do the Fairbourne Railway from Fairbourne, but my TfW train from Portmadog was so late that I ended up getting off at Barmouth and taking the ferry. This boards and unboards on the beach via a narrow plank and is very difficult for the elderly or less mobile. The Darjeeling brochure that I picked up in the West Highland Heritage Railway bookshop ended up in the river but was recovered by the kind ferryman. I thus missed out on the impressive Barmouth viaduct which I had hoped to do twice.

Unlike other posters, almost everybody from Chester ticket office staff to the conductors on TfW and FR, seemed familiar with this excellent value but very poorly advertised ticket.

It's rather unusual in that its one of the only area-based tickets that's issued as a point-to-point on the TIS. Oxford Road were very good with it, as they always have been in my experience with more unusual stuff where they're just happy to take your word for stuff. Piccadilly are okay, I just really wanted to avoid the bog roll tickets back when I did it.

 

[MrJeeves]

It's rather unusual in that its one of the only area-based tickets that's issued as a point-to-point on the TIS. Oxford Road were very good with it, as they always have been in my experience with more unusual stuff where they're just happy to take your word for stuff. Piccadilly are okay, I just really wanted to avoid the bog roll tickets back when I did it.

Birmingham New Street ticket office were very friendly and helpful to do it, and even asked if I wanted it on CCST or bog roll!