Fine/Prosecution

[maxi998]

I know no two cases are the same, but out of curiosity what has been the worst outcome for someone who has repeatedly short fair'd and refused to give details to revenue staff when asked?

And when we say prosecution and criminal record, what kind of criminal record - is it one that affects citizenship applications?

What is the biggest fine a person has received for this?

Thanks

 

[skyhigh]

It would be helpful if you actually gave details of your case, rather than asking hypothetical questions.

That way you will actually get relevant advice.

 

[liamf656]

Precisely as you say, no two cases are the same. A little more details as to which operator you used, where you travelled from/to and who you spoke to, would help

 

[AlterEgo]

I know no two cases are the same, but out of curiosity what has been the worst outcome for someone who has repeatedly short fair'd and refused to give details to revenue staff when asked?

And when we say prosecution and criminal record, what kind of criminal record - is it one that affects citizenship applications?

What is the biggest fine a person has received for this?

Thanks

Seeing as you ask about the worst case, that is fraud, which comes with a sentence of imprisonment. That would probably affect one’s citizenship application.

Lawyer who dodged rail fares lied about address

AN international lawyer dodged paying more than £23,000 in train fares over two-and-a-half years by saying he lived in Wembley, a court heard Dr…

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

AN international lawyer dodged paying more than £23,000 in train fares over two-and-a-half years by saying he lived in Wembley, a court heard Dr Peter Barnett, of Whittle Road, Thame, regularly escaped paying for the journey between Thame and London by using a doctored photo-card, the prosecution said.

If you tell us the specifics of your case, we can help you better than just providing the absolute worst case, which is unlikely to be of much use to you other than worrying you.

 

[alholmes]

We rarely hear about outcomes on here, particularly where an individual has immigration / visa concerns, as we are unable to give advice on those aspects.

 

[Hadders]

Legally we cannot give advice about immigration and citizenship.

Forum members will be happy to assist in telling you about what could happen if you are caught evading your fares but we need to know what has happened to be able to offer the base advice.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Seeing as you ask about the worst case, that is fraud, which comes with a sentence of imprisonment. That would probably affect one’s citizenship application.

Lawyer who dodged rail fares lied about address

AN international lawyer dodged paying more than £23,000 in train fares over two-and-a-half years by saying he lived in Wembley, a court heard Dr…

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

If you tell us the specifics of your case we can help you better than just providing the absolute worst case, which is unlikely to be of much use to you other than worrying you.

It's perhaps worth adding this piece as well which gives the sentence: https://www.brettwilson.co.uk/barrister-sentenced-for-train-fare-evasion/. The article begins

Barrister Dr Peter Barnett has received a 16-week prison sentence, suspended for 12 months, 200 hours of community service, and a compensation order of nearly £6,000 for evading rail fares on his commute from Haddenham and Thame Parkway to London Marylebone.

And for completeness, also see https://www.barstandardsboard.org.u...owing-fraud-convictions-for-fare-evasion.html:

Unregistered barrister Dr Peter Barnett disbarred following fraud convictions for fare evasion​

​

In our experience, you do not get sent to prison for fare dodging. We have very occasionally seen reports where the headline is that someone went to prison - but on closer inspection, there's normally some sort of aggravating factor, such as assaulting railway staff, or illegal drug abuse: it's the aggravating factor which has caused the prison sentence rather than the fare dodging. The most usual punishment is a fine, plus prosecution and court costs, plus compensation to the railway of the fares that you should have paid.

As various people have said above, we avoid getting in trouble with the law by not saying anything about what this might do to immigration status or citizenship applications, so I cannot (and won't try) to help you with that.

 

[maxi998]

Thanks all

 

[island]

The legal bar on providing immigration advice applies only to advice given and tailored to a specific individual (section 82 (1) Immigration and Asylum Act 1999), so as we are speaking in general terms, it should be noted that anyone who is not a British or Irish citizen and is convicted of any criminal offence, anywhere:

• is subject to a mandatory bar from entering the UK as a visitor for 12 months from the date of conviction (Immigration Rules section 9.4.4b).
• if legally resident in the UK, may have their permission to stay cancelled (Immigration Rules section 9.4.5b)
  • though it is my understanding that this does not happen in practice unless someone is sentenced to 12 months or more in custody
• will have this taken into account in determining whether they meet the good character requirements should they later apply for naturalisation as a British citizen ("Good character requirement", UK Visas & Immigration, v6.0, section "criminality")

 

[tspaul26]

I am late to the party on this thread, but I am aware of at least one case last year where a three month custodial sentence was imposed for what started out as a simple “no ticket, no details” incident.

Very much decided on its own facts, mind, and the fare evasion offences were laddered up with other substantive offences, but as I understand it at least part of the custodial term was attributable to the initial fare evasion incidents.

 

[John R]

I am late to the party on this thread, but I am aware of at least one case last year where a three month custodial sentence was imposed for what started out as a simple “no ticket, no details” incident.

Very much decided on its own facts, mind, and the fare evasion offences were laddered up with other substantive offences, but as I understand it at least part of the custodial term was attributable to the initial fare evasion incidents.

That's very interesting. I appreciate you are probably unable to give any more details directly, but wonder whether you are able to provide a link to any report of the case, to give those giving advice on this board more insight into it.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I am late to the party on this thread, but I am aware of at least one case last year where a three month custodial sentence was imposed for what started out as a simple “no ticket, no details” incident.

Very much decided on its own facts, mind, and the fare evasion offences were laddered up with other substantive offences, but as I understand it at least part of the custodial term was attributable to the initial fare evasion incidents.

The key term here is "laddered up with other substantive offences". The defendant would most likely be sentenced for the other offences; the rail matters would simply be added to that sentence, either as days to be served concurrently or with no separate penalty.

 

[maxi998]

Thanks all, the query has been resolved. There was no actual short fairing being done - however staff thought that was the case at the time (3 weeks ago).
Query was due to staff stating there could be court action for short fairing - so the query was to see the worst case, in the event of action being taken without all parties being present (sjp thousands of people experienced).
Tickets can easily prove a customers story if they have a ticket, and that is what has happened.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for updating us. I'm pleased your case has been resolved but I still don't know what you were alleged to have done. It would be good if you could share some more information about your case as this helps us to offer the best advice to other people in the future.