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First Bus Ireland (Aircoach/Matthews) Discussion

F Great Eastern

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Very disappointing decision , although the poor reliabillty and extended journey times of the 702 probably didnt help

Even though I live near to a 702 stop , it's quicker to get the DART and Dublin Express combo , and the high frequency of DX services from Tara Street to the Airport make it a no-brainer
And at the end of the day that is the problem they created themselves.

The 702 and 703 route ran every hour up Covid very successfully and then after covid both routes came back running every two hours each and were doing pretty well and there was widespread lobbying in order to increase both the operating hours and the frequency of both routes to something similar to that of pre-covid.

What ended up happening last summer is they started messing with the distribution of the stops on the network of Dublin routes, slinging the inner suburb stops out of the 702/703 into the new 701, some of the stops were also slung into the 700. They then combined the outer/middle distance stops of the 702/703 into each other so you had a route that ran every hour but literally went all round the world as not only was it serving the areas served by the outermost areas on the old 702 routing, it was also serving areas covered by the 703.

Every route on the new network failed. The new stops on the 700 (split out of the 702/703) didn't achieve enough passengers to make them viable, the 701 carried fresh air for the unique sections it covered and the long cumbersome nature of the new 702 combined with the former 703 killed the demand because it was now far quicker to take other options as you say. Essentially what todays announcement is doing is scrapping the extra stops on the 700, cutting the 701 to operate shorts between the city centre and airport only (under the new guise of the 700X), scrapping the old 702 route entirely and bringing the 703 back

Then of course to top it all off, when they launched these routes last year they had weeks of ongoing cancellations, some at short notice, because they didn't have enough drivers to operate the timetable they had just launched and they were cancelling double figures of services on some routes each day. An airport route that takes forever and can't be relied on is hardly going to be a stellar commercial success.

No wonder they have had to hire a PR firm to image manage what is obviously a big contraction. Sadly all of this was predicted months ago.
 
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F Great Eastern

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Doubt it considering they have just bought Matthews.

About 18 months ago they appointed a new MD who had no experience in the bus industry, but previously worked in the shipping world with First Bus CEO Jeanette Bell, from the outside viewing at least, it's all been downhill from there. Last year they reported a record loss.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...x-loss-of-over-7m-and-faces-challenging-year/

Everywhere I look on Irish forums, a lot of the posters are talking about poor commercial management of the business.

On the outside at least, it looks like they badly need an experienced, commercially savvy leader who knows the market. Perhaps some of the management from Matthews who transfer over can help with that.
 

F Great Eastern

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5x 2014 Volvo B11R Plaxton Panther 3s 20906-20910 withdrawn today following the implementation of the cuts on the Dublin City network implemented today.

These follow on from 20901-20905 which were withdrawn in January.

In other news, 3x Irizar ie.Team artics have been delivered for the car park services.
 

F Great Eastern

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It looks like the First brand is going to be introduced in Ireland, 20 years after First entered the country.

The holding company name of Last Passive Ltd T/A Aircoach has been renamed as First Bus Ireland Limited with communications from the company now being branded as 'First Bus Aircoach'
 

Flange Squeal

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It looks like the First brand is going to be introduced in Ireland, 20 years after First entered the country.

The holding company name of Last Passive Ltd T/A Aircoach has been renamed as First Bus Ireland Limited with communications from the company now being branded as 'First Bus Aircoach'
I think you might have posted the wrong screenshot. That appears to be a Holiday Inn points/booking page.
 
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danm14

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It looks like the First brand is going to be introduced in Ireland, 20 years after First entered the country.

The holding company name of Last Passive Ltd T/A Aircoach has been renamed as First Bus Ireland Limited with communications from the company now being branded as 'First Bus Aircoach'
I wonder if this indicates a desire to phase out the Matthews brand, after all their reputation is very far from stellar.

The Aircoach brand would of course not be suitable for the Matthews services as none are licensed to serve Dublin Airport.
 

F Great Eastern

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Matthews have just had a double decker Volvo 9700DD coach delivered which is certainly a surprise. It has the usual Matthews livery.
 
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Matthews have just had a double decker Volvo 9700DD coach delivered which is certainly a surprise. It has the usual Matthews livery.

One of Five due.

One was at Blackpool Rally at the weekend.
 

F Great Eastern

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The new Irizar i6 vehicles have now started to be delivered to Northern Ireland for Aircoach's 705x service.

Photos were posted online but I will not post them here because apparently they were the result of a leak.

There is also rumour of some ex airport express double deckers arriving from Glasgow but may be just that.
 

F Great Eastern

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Some updates (with thanks to Irish forum Boards.ie and the Irish Road Passenger Transport forum)

The following Irizar i6s have now entered service on the 705x Dublin - Belfast - Londonderry route in Aircoach Livery but with interior colours of the new FirstGroup brand identity.

25110 YT25 DFO
25111 YT25 DFP
25113 YT25 DFV
25114 YT25 DFX
25115 YT25 DFY
25116 YT25 DFZ
25117 YT25 DGV (due to enter service shortly)

The following Volvo B11R / Plaxton Panther 3 coaches from 2018 have been withdrawn by Aircoach and are on the way to England to transfer to fellow First subsidiary Lakeside Coaches.

F33/20933 IGZ 6135
F34/20934 IGZ 6132
F35/20935 IGZ 6131
F37/20937 IGZ 6133
F38/20938 IGZ 6136

The following Volvo B11R / Plaxton Panther 3 coaches from 2018 remain in service until further Irizar i6s enter service at which point they will also go to Lakeside coaches.

F36/20936 IGZ 6129
F39/20939 IGZ 6130

The following Enviro 400 City vehicles have transferred from First Glasgow and are currently being prepared for service and will also undergo driver familiarisation with more to follow.

33101 SK19 EOM
33107 SK19 EOU
 
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Joined
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Location
Glasgow
Some updates (with thanks to Irish forum Boards.ie and the Irish Road Passenger Transport forum)

The following Irizar i6s have now entered service on the 705x Dublin - Belfast - Londonderry route in Aircoach Livery but with interior colours of the new FirstGroup brand identity.

25110 YT25 DFO
25111 YT25 DFP
25113 YT25 DFV
25114 YT25 DFX
25115 YT25 DFY
25116 YT25 DFZ
25117 YT25 DGV (due to enter service shortly)

The following Volvo B11R / Plaxton Panther 3 coaches from 2018 have been withdrawn by Aircoach and are on the way to England to transfer to fellow First subsidiary Lakeside Coaches.

F33/20933 IGZ 6135
F34/20934 IGZ 6132
F35/20935 IGZ 6131
F37/20937 IGZ 6133
F38/20938 IGZ 6136

The following Volvo B11R / Plaxton Panther 3 coaches from 2018 remain in service until further Irizar i6s enter service at which point they will also go to Lakeside coaches.

F36/20936 IGZ 6129
F39/20939 IGZ 6130

The following Enviro 400 MMCs have transferred from First Glasgow and are currently being prepared for service and will also undergo driver familiarisation with more to follow.

33101 SK19 EOM
33107 SK19 EOU
They're Enviro400 City's not MMCs btw
 

LT02 NVV

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Some updates (with thanks to Irish forum Boards.ie and the Irish Road Passenger Transport forum)

The following Irizar i6s have now entered service on the 705x Dublin - Belfast - Londonderry route in Aircoach Livery but with interior colours of the new FirstGroup brand identity.

25110 YT25 DFO
25111 YT25 DFP
25113 YT25 DFV
25114 YT25 DFX
25115 YT25 DFY
25116 YT25 DFZ
25117 YT25 DGV (due to enter service shortly)

The following Volvo B11R / Plaxton Panther 3 coaches from 2018 have been withdrawn by Aircoach and are on the way to England to transfer to fellow First subsidiary Lakeside Coaches.

F33/20933 IGZ 6135
F34/20934 IGZ 6132
F35/20935 IGZ 6131
F37/20937 IGZ 6133
F38/20938 IGZ 6136

The following Volvo B11R / Plaxton Panther 3 coaches from 2018 remain in service until further Irizar i6s enter service at which point they will also go to Lakeside coaches.

F36/20936 IGZ 6129
F39/20939 IGZ 6130

The following Enviro 400 City vehicles have transferred from First Glasgow and are currently being prepared for service and will also undergo driver familiarisation with more to follow.

33101 SK19 EOM
33107 SK19 EOU
Aren’t all of the 5 Enviro 400 City buses that were left at Glasgow moved to Aircoach recently to with those 2 buses? Cause apparently Aircoach has 7 of them now.
 

stadler

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What exactly are First Aircoach planning to use the E400 double deckers on? I thought all they ran was long distance coach routes and airport car park shuttles. I doubt that they would put the E400 double deckers on either of those. Do they have new local bus routes planned?
 

F Great Eastern

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What exactly are First Aircoach planning to use the E400 double deckers on? I thought all they ran was long distance coach routes and airport car park shuttles. I doubt that they would put the E400 double deckers on either of those. Do they have new local bus routes planned?

If you read through this thread, you will see that there has been a lot of things going on over the last 12-18 months and a lot of things which haven't come off commercially, in some cases through bad decision making and others cases where they have been outmanoeuvred by their more commercially savvy competitors.

Apparently according to the various forums in Ireland is they aim to fight back against National Express on the Dublin Airport to Dublin City express route (where National Express have gone from nothing to being the dominant operator over long established Aircoach) by introducing a shorter route with fast turn-arounds and no luggage loading with buses to compete against the coach service offered by National Express. The focus will be on very quick turnarounds and only serving the most popular 2-3 stops.

It remains to be seen f that works out. For my money, if they are going to have any commercial chance of success with that approach, they would need to make a value proposition to the market that makes customers still pay extra for an express service than the standard city bus, but also price it cheaper than the more comfortable coach service that National Express provide. If they price it at the same price as NX are doing then I can't see how offering an inferior product at a same price to a superior one is going to work out well.

Aren’t all of the 5 Enviro 400 City buses that were left at Glasgow moved to Aircoach recently to with those 2 buses? Cause apparently Aircoach has 7 of them now.
33101 and 33107 have been seen in the flesh on the Island of Ireland.

33102 is still in Bristol as of this morning.

33103/4/5/6 are apparently in Ireland but nobody has been able to verify it.
 

markymark2000

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Apparently according to the various forums in Ireland is they aim to fight back against National Express on the Dublin Airport to Dublin City express route (where National Express have gone from nothing to being the dominant operator over long established Aircoach) by introducing a shorter route with fast turn-arounds and no luggage loading with buses to compete against the coach service offered by National Express. The focus will be on very quick turnarounds and only serving the most popular 2-3 stops.
Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of the licencing in Ireland was there to limit such competition of everyone providing the same links and everyone had to do something a bit different to get a licence. As such, wouldn't First have to do something quite different to NX to be granted such a licence?
 

signed

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Apparently according to the various forums in Ireland is they aim to fight back against National Express on the Dublin Airport to Dublin City express route (where National Express have gone from nothing to being the dominant operator over long established Aircoach) by introducing a shorter route with fast turn-arounds and no luggage loading with buses to compete against the coach service offered by National Express. The focus will be on very quick turnarounds and only serving the most popular 2-3 stops.
Hasn't that already be tried with Dublin Bus Airlink?

Operation that collapsed after COVID
 

danm14

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Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of the licencing in Ireland was there to limit such competition of everyone providing the same links and everyone had to do something a bit different to get a licence. As such, wouldn't First have to do something quite different to NX to be granted such a licence?
Subject to certain restrictions around timings, there can be two operators running near-identical services along a given route. A good example is Dublin-Cork, served by both CityLink and Aircoach, the only difference in route being that the pick-up stops in Dublin City are about 75 yards apart.

Aside from that, on the Dublin-Airport route, all Dublin Express routes operate via Dublin Port Tunnel - whereas most Aircoach routes operate via Drumcondra, and the one route that does operate via Dublin Port Tunnel is infrequent and doesn't serve the City Centre proper. The two companies' services also extend beyond the City Centre to completely different areas.
 
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markymark2000

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Subject to certain restrictions around timings, there can be two operators running near-identical services along a given route. A good example is Dublin-Cork, served by both CityLink and Aircoach, the only difference in route being that the pick-up stops in Dublin City are about 75 yards apart.

Aside from that, on the Dublin-Airport route, all Dublin Express routes operate via Dublin Port Tunnel - whereas most Aircoach routes operate via Drumcondra, and the one route that does operate via Dublin Port Tunnel is infrequent and doesn't serve the City Centre proper. The two companies' services also extend beyond the City Centre to completely different areas.
Dublin to Cork is both hourly, combined to make a half hourly service.
Dublin-Airport though, with the description being given by F Great Eastern about the new Aircoach service, given the number of trips Dublin Express have, there wouldn't be a way for Aircoach to 'fill gaps in the timetable', it would have to be a purely competitive route. And while yes it could run to other places, per F Great Easterns post, it doesn't sound like such a route would to any new places. I can't see how they can pass off the service as a good addition over just being a purely competitive route?
 

F Great Eastern

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Hasn't that already be tried with Dublin Bus Airlink?

Operation that collapsed after COVID
The Airlink routes ran very successfully for a number of years and effectively was able to pitch itself as something between a normal bus and express coach, being a euro or two cheaper than the coach, whilst also accepting Dublin Bus tickets and serving bus and rail stations which Aircoach did not do.

What happened there was that at the time Covid hit, National Express had just entered the fray (at that point with only three stops) and the Dublin Bus Airlink Fleet was approaching 12 years old and needed replacing and Dublin Bus probably conceded that after Covid and demand taking it's time to pick up again, it wasn't commercially viable to purchase new specialist vehicles for the airport run on the basis the market was now crowded and would require substantial investment and would lead to diminishing returns for what was a non core operation.

At that point NX were running two buses an hour to the city centre and Aircoach were running at least four an hour through NX were especially commercially canny in that as soon as Dublin Bus stopped operating their services, they applied to amend their services to serve the stops that no longer had an express bus service, including the lucrative stops at bus and rail stations that were exclusive to Dublin Bus. They also heavily marketed their services post covid and built up a network of resellers across Dublin whilst Aircoach were quite passive in comparison.

We're currently at the following frequencies through the city centre, with most routes pretty much operating 24 hours a day apart from around 01:00am to 03:30am. Aircoach does still serve some unique areas on the 700, but obviously the city centre market is where all the money is.

Aircoach
700 2x Hour (To Leopardstown via Dublin City Centre)
700X 2x hour (To City Centre)

The 700X despite it's name is not an express version of the 700, it's just a short working of the 700 (that used to be every 15 minutes) that omits all but the nearest three stops to the airport. It is likely this route that is going to get the double decks. It also now has limited hours of operation with the last service to the airport at 5.30pm and last service from the airport at 8.30pm. It's late starting at first ex city centre departure at 6:42am.

Dublin Express
782 4x per hour (To Connolly Station via CIty Centre and Heuston Station)
783 2x per hour (To Terenure Via City Centre and Harcourt and Rathmines LUAS)
784 2x per hour (Via Docklands to City Centre)

Not all of those services will serve the same stops, but a few of the stops will have two a more services that depart from them and the Custom House Quay stop for Connolly Station and Busaras has all three services stopping at them and obviously for those going to the city centre it dwarves Aircoach for frequency, especially in the hours when the 700X is not running.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of the licencing in Ireland was there to limit such competition of everyone providing the same links and everyone had to do something a bit different to get a licence. As such, wouldn't First have to do something quite different to NX to be granted such a licence?

They will generally allow two operators on a corridor but generally won't allow them to act in any way that could be seen predatory. For example, if Aircoach and Dublin Express want to service a certain area, it may be that one of them has to service a road around the corner from each other and/or must be time separated from each other. IE generally if you get an intercity route with two operators that run every hour, the NTA will ask for them to be separated by 30 minutes. The idea is to stop bus wars and people pulling up at each others stops 5 minutes ahead of each other to take their passengers.

Dublin to Cork is both hourly, combined to make a half hourly service.
Dublin-Airport though, with the description being given by F Great Eastern about the new Aircoach service, given the number of trips Dublin Express have, there wouldn't be a way for Aircoach to 'fill gaps in the timetable', it would have to be a purely competitive route. And while yes it could run to other places, per F Great Easterns post, it doesn't sound like such a route would to any new places. I can't see how they can pass off the service as a good addition over just being a purely competitive route?
The service that is being talked about as getting the ex Glasgow is essentially short working of the original 700 route that already exists that is being converted in to a bus route (apparently to have dual Aircoach and First Bus branding, if that makes any sense at all) on the basis to fight back against NX who have gone from being a new entrant to the dominant operator on the route.

I do happen to think it may be a case of after the horse has bolted however, especially when Aircoach got a fair bit of bad publicity for last years botched network which led to industrial relations issues, service unreliability and a substantial number of cancellations and the collapse of customer demand and satisfaction for the long standing route to Greystones which for some odd reason was merged with another route which created a huge unwieldy, slow unattractive route that went around the world which then unsurprisingly Aircoach cancelled because it no longer commercially worked. Many of the changes were reverted back, all be it with the 700 at half the frequency it used to be before the failed network review and the 700X essentially replacing the other 700 journeys, all be it with a truncated route and much shorter operating hours.
 

markymark2000

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The service that is being talked about as getting the ex Glasgow is essentially short working of the original 700 route that already exists that is being converted in to a bus route (apparently to have dual Aircoach and First Bus branding, if that makes any sense at all) on the basis to fight back against NX who have gone from being a new entrant to the dominant operator on the route.
Thank you for clarifying. Your post in #75 made it sound like a new service altogether.

They will generally allow two operators on a corridor but generally won't allow them to act in any way that could be seen predatory. For example, if Aircoach and Dublin Express want to service a certain area, it may be that one of them has to service a road around the corner from each other and/or must be time separated from each other. IE generally if you get an intercity route with two operators that run every hour, the NTA will ask for them to be separated by 30 minutes. The idea is to stop bus wars and people pulling up at each others stops 5 minutes ahead of each other to take their passengers.
Appreciated. Always interesting to hear how things work over there.
 

F Great Eastern

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Thank you for clarifying. Your post in #75 made it sound like a new service altogether.

The idea was that the 700x would have launched with the double deckers cording to the rumour mill, but there was a delay in the vehicles becoming available and the July 2024 network reconfiguration was so unpopular and commercially unsuccessful hat they had to make serious surgery on it in March 2025.

There's been rumours going around Irish enthusiast forums since October/November last year about the Glasgow double decks going to Dublin 'soon' so that would tie up with that.
 

signed

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The Airlink routes ran very successfully for a number of years and effectively was able to pitch itself as something between a normal bus and express coach, being a euro or two cheaper than the coach, whilst also accepting Dublin Bus tickets and serving bus and rail stations which Aircoach did not do.

What happened there was that at the time Covid hit, National Express had just entered the fray (at that point with only three stops) and the Dublin Bus Airlink Fleet was approaching 12 years old and needed replacing and Dublin Bus probably conceded that after Covid and demand taking it's time to pick up again, it wasn't commercially viable to purchase new specialist vehicles for the airport run on the basis the market was now crowded and would require substantial investment and would lead to diminishing returns for what was a non core operation.

At that point NX were running two buses an hour to the city centre and Aircoach were running at least four an hour through NX were especially commercially canny in that as soon as Dublin Bus stopped operating their services, they applied to amend their services to serve the stops that no longer had an express bus service, including the lucrative stops at bus and rail stations that were exclusive to Dublin Bus. They also heavily marketed their services post covid and built up a network of resellers across Dublin whilst Aircoach were quite passive in comparison.

We're currently at the following frequencies through the city centre, with most routes pretty much operating 24 hours a day apart from around 01:00am to 03:30am. Aircoach does still serve some unique areas on the 700, but obviously the city centre market is where all the money is.

Aircoach
700 2x Hour (To Leopardstown via Dublin City Centre)
700X 2x hour (To City Centre)

The 700X despite it's name is not an express version of the 700, it's just a short working of the 700 (that used to be every 15 minutes) that omits all but the nearest three stops to the airport. It is likely this route that is going to get the double decks. It also now has limited hours of operation with the last service to the airport at 5.30pm and last service from the airport at 8.30pm. It's late starting at first ex city centre departure at 6:42am.

Dublin Express
782 4x per hour (To Connolly Station via CIty Centre and Heuston Station)
783 2x per hour (To Terenure Via City Centre and Harcourt and Rathmines LUAS)
784 2x per hour (Via Docklands to City Centre)

Not all of those services will serve the same stops, but a few of the stops will have two a more services that depart from them and the Custom House Quay stop for Connolly Station and Busaras has all three services stopping at them and obviously for those going to the city centre it dwarves Aircoach for frequency, especially in the hours when the 700X is not running.



They will generally allow two operators on a corridor but generally won't allow them to act in any way that could be seen predatory. For example, if Aircoach and Dublin Express want to service a certain area, it may be that one of them has to service a road around the corner from each other and/or must be time separated from each other. IE generally if you get an intercity route with two operators that run every hour, the NTA will ask for them to be separated by 30 minutes. The idea is to stop bus wars and people pulling up at each others stops 5 minutes ahead of each other to take their passengers.


The service that is being talked about as getting the ex Glasgow is essentially short working of the original 700 route that already exists that is being converted in to a bus route (apparently to have dual Aircoach and First Bus branding, if that makes any sense at all) on the basis to fight back against NX who have gone from being a new entrant to the dominant operator on the route.

I do happen to think it may be a case of after the horse has bolted however, especially when Aircoach got a fair bit of bad publicity for last years botched network which led to industrial relations issues, service unreliability and a substantial number of cancellations and the collapse of customer demand and satisfaction for the long standing route to Greystones which for some odd reason was merged with another route which created a huge unwieldy, slow unattractive route that went around the world which then unsurprisingly Aircoach cancelled because it no longer commercially worked. Many of the changes were reverted back, all be it with the 700 at half the frequency it used to be before the failed network review and the 700X essentially replacing the other 700 journeys, all be it with a truncated route and much shorter operating hours.
Very appreciated, thanks a lot for that great post. I didn't think about that that way.
 

F Great Eastern

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Aircoach have today released their new fleet of Irizar i6 coaches with much marketing fanfair.
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/busine...per-fares-for-belfast-dublin-services-5158146

'Delivering the best travel experience possible for our customers ': Aircoach gears up for summer with 10 new coaches boosting extra comfort and cheaper fares for Belfast–Dublin services​

New state-of-the-art vehicles with enhanced comfort, onboard toilets, and high-speed WiFi now serving routes between Londonderry, Belfast, Dublin Airport and city centre.

Popular passenger transport company Aircoach has unveiled a state-of-the-art fleet of 10 new coaches for passengers travelling to both Belfast International and Dublin airports from Londonderry and between Belfast, Dublin Airport and Dublin City Centre.

An investment of £3 million in the new fleet comes as the approaching summer season will see thousands of visitors travel between North and South and to Ireland’s two main airports on the company’s 705X service.

The new luxury coaches will bring a number of improved features and upgrades including onboard toilets, reclining seats and high speed wifi.
Haven't seen any reviews of them yet (they've been in service for around a week), but speculation is that they are 55 seaters with a toilet which cannot be that roomy being a standard length coach. Hopefully it's not just style and marketing PR over substance, but we'll have to wait and see until someone has ridden on one.
 

F Great Eastern

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A further two Irizar i6s have now entered service (25112 and 25117) meaning a total of eight are now in service with two more still due to be delivered.

This has allowed the withdrawal of the final two 2018 Plaxton Panthers operating from Belfast (20936, 20939) that have now joined the other five that were withdrawn last month in the Lakeside Coaches fleet.

In addition 24208 to 24211, Mercedes Tourismo Access coaches with 55 seats from 2023 and no toilet have been sent to First Aberdeen as Aircoach have now committed to having a toilet on each service on the 705X. Until the last two remaining i6s are delivered, spare toilet equipped vehicles in the Dublin based fleet will step in as cover if needbe.
 
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