First class or standard premium ticket held, but train becomes declassified?

[Howardh]

What is the procedure if this happens, would the pax with advance ticket be entitled to the difference refunded, and if so how would they go about it?

Also will you still be allowed to sit in your chosen seat as per ticket?

Read rumours that some TOCs have been asked to declassify over Xmas to make more room, don't know if that's been done in previous years but I have a couple of advance firsts over Xmas and new year.

 

[Benjwri]

What is the procedure if this happens, would the pax with advance ticket be entitled to the difference refunded, and if so how would they go about it?

Also will you still be allowed to sit in your chosen seat as per ticket?

Read rumours that some TOCs have been asked to declassify over Xmas to make more room, don't know if that's been done in previous years but I have a couple of advance firsts over Xmas and new year.

If your service is declassified you are entitled to the difference between your ticket and a standard ticket of the same type. You would need to contact Avanti’s customer support. You can obviously still sit in your seat as it is still reserved for you, but many passengers seem to thing declassified means no reservations, and the train will likely be full and standing, so this may not be possible.

 

[Haywain]

You can obviously still sit in your seat as it is still reserved for you,

If a train is declassified it is unlikely that seat reservations will be enforced.

 

[Snow1964]

If a train is declassified it is unlikely that seat reservations will be enforced.

Which can be slightly difficult because advance firsts (which come with seat reservations) are usually cheaper than open firsts (which don't get seat reservations)

Therefore if you apply railway fares logic (where they will penalty the other way round), your fare difference ought to be to the higher open first fare. But they like to have their cake and eat it, so can't see them doing it.

 

[Haywain]

open firsts (which don't get seat reservations)

All tickets can have seat reservations, it's just that some are optional.

 

[Snow1964]

All tickets can have seat reservations, it's just that some are optional.

Not on GWR services to south coast, all advertised as reservations recommended, none give you allocated seat, just a count in some back office system

 

[Howardh]

I've paid Avanti £23.65 (with r/c) for a single Milton Keynes > Manchester, standard premium, which is obviously an advance selected train only. If nearer the time that becomes declassified, the on-the-day single for a standard seat may well cost more than that (!) so not sure how they could refund the difference; unless they can back-date to the cost of the standard advance on the day I bought my ticket - which would be around £11?

 

[RAPC]

I've paid Avanti £23.65 (with r/c) for a single Milton Keynes > Manchester, standard premium, which is obviously an advance selected train only. If nearer the time that becomes declassified, the on-the-day single for a standard seat may well cost more than that (!) so not sure how they could refund the difference; unless they can back-date to the cost of the standard advance on the day I bought my ticket - which would be around £11?

They normally will refund the Standard Premium excess. So if it was £10 or £15 more than than the advanced standard price, you'll get that back.

However, on the rare occasions when I've seen Avanti declassify seating, it has normally been just 1st class. They then encourage those in a full and standing standard class to pay to upgrade to SP should they wish to enjoy the comfort of a seat.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've paid Avanti £23.65 (with r/c) for a single Milton Keynes > Manchester, standard premium, which is obviously an advance selected train only. If nearer the time that becomes declassified, the on-the-day single for a standard seat may well cost more than that (!) so not sure how they could refund the difference; unless they can back-date to the cost of the standard advance on the day I bought my ticket - which would be around £11?

The railways have a special customer service. When you ask them for the money, they'll deny the train was declassified. If you persist, they'll ignore that and tell you you can't get delay repay as the train wasn't late. If you still persist they'll say another operator was to blame and you should contact them. If you still persist, they'll say your ticket type doesn't qualify for that. If you still persist, they'll say it's an impasse and go to the ombudsman. If you do that, the ombudsman will say "what's a train? yeah, the TOC were right" If you persist, they'll say you're out of time as it's now over 28 days and you've missed your chance. Obviously most people give up long before then and just buy a car.

 

[Howardh]

The railways have a special customer service. When you ask them for the money, they'll deny the train was declassified. If you persist, they'll ignore that and tell you you can't get delay repay as the train wasn't late. If you still persist they'll say another operator was to blame and you should contact them. If you still persist, they'll say your ticket type doesn't qualify for that. If you still persist, they'll say it's an impasse and go to the ombudsman. If you do that, the ombudsman will say "what's a train? yeah, the TOC were right" If you persist, they'll say you're out of time as it's now over 28 days and you've missed your chance. Obviously most people give up long before then and just buy a car.

Frankly for a tenner it probably wouldn't be worth all that hassle! But first class can cost an eye-watering amount so someone would go through all that - and hopefully win!

In my case I'd probably travel on the day, explain to Avanti what happened and could I please have a voucher for another standard premium (or at least standard) to compensate - especially if I had to stand?

Edit; the problem is - I'm returning from MKC and not Euston - so the train might be full and standing by then. If I were departing from Euston I'd make sure - thanks to Real Time Trains - I'd be at the gate and one of the first on....hopefully!

 

[Deafdoggie]

Frankly for a tenner it probably wouldn't be worth all that hassle!

And that, of course, is what they want.

 

[Howardh]

And that, of course, is what they want.

I bet they would accept my offer of "send me a voucher and we'll call it quits" - probably easier than trying to work out a refund and they gain a passenger on another day when the train is half-empty who will need a return single!

 

[Haywain]

Not on GWR services to south coast, all advertised as reservations recommended, none give you allocated seat, just a count in some back office system

I am talking about tickets, not trains

I've paid Avanti £23.65 (with r/c) for a single Milton Keynes > Manchester, standard premium, which is obviously an advance selected train only. If nearer the time that becomes declassified, the on-the-day single for a standard seat may well cost more than that (!) so not sure how they could refund the difference; unless they can back-date to the cost of the standard advance on the day I bought my ticket - which would be around £11?

In the event that you have the cheapest first class Advance fare and your train is declassified, you will be refunded tge difference between that and the equivalent (cheapest) standard class fare.

 

[RJ]

Which can be slightly difficult because advance firsts (which come with seat reservations) are usually cheaper than open firsts (which don't get seat reservations)

Therefore if you apply railway fares logic (where they will penalty the other way round), your fare difference ought to be to the higher open first fare. But they like to have their cake and eat it, so can't see them doing it.

It has always been the case that people buying open tickets have the option of reserving a seat.

The only exception to this I’ve experienced is LNER who offer Advance tickets on services but in some cases have prevented seat reservations being booked on the the same trains but generally the option is there.

 

[C2K]

All tickets can have seat reservations, it's just that some are optional.

Not south of the river. Westerly yes but if your heading to the south coast then you work on your arms so you can flex those elbows and carve out your bit of floor as you're not getting a seat unless you board at Brighton, Pompey etc. For the commuter services even getting on at Preston Park, Portsmouth and Southsea etc you're invariably standing the whole way. Even when it's off peak middle of the day you're still not reserving any seats although those who know always head to the rear 1st class on the Thameslink as they're declassified at all times. Always been the case, well as long as I've been around. In fairness you'd never get to any seat half the time as there will be 150 ppl stood in the gangway between the doors and said seat.


Once got told we'd have to wait an hour for the next train at Norwich once as it was full. 15 years ago and I still chuckle about the fact that said guard would be pulled off and 10 ppl would occupy the space he was previously in had that been said on the Brighton mainline

 

[Haywain]

Not south of the river. Westerly yes but if your heading to the south coast then you work on your arms so you can flex those elbows and carve out your bit of floor as you're not getting a seat unless you board at Brighton, Pompey etc. For the commuter services even getting on at Preston Park, Portsmouth and Southsea etc you're invariably standing the whole way. Even when it's off peak middle of the day you're still not reserving any seats although those who know always head to the rear 1st class on the Thameslink as they're declassified at all times. Always been the case, well as long as I've been around. In fairness you'd never get to any seat half the time as there will be 150 ppl stood in the gangway between the doors and said seat.


Once got told we'd have to wait an hour for the next train at Norwich once as it was full. 15 years ago and I still chuckle about the fact that said guard would be pulled off and 10 ppl would occupy the space he was previously in had that been said on the Brighton mainline

Would it help you if I said all tickets can have seat reservations but not on all trains?