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First Eastern Counties

buslad1988

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Agreed. They’re making more money, just, but they must invest, particularly on routes like the 66 which has lost much of its ‘Superoute’ shine (and while it always used to get new buses once every few years, does need a decent fleet update). I totally agree with you regarding a reworked red, cream and orange livery, which if properly relaunched highlighting a suite of recent-ish improvements (contactless ticketing, WiFi etc) would really help the local identity.

The ‘RAF’ blue and bland ‘IPSWICH’ fleetname may have smartened up the buses but it is just so...pointless. The buses blend into their environment too much unlike Ipswich Buses, a company that makes a lot more effort to stand out!

Thought I’d split and create this thread for a wider discussion on First Eastern Counties operations.

Agreed the ‘IPSWICH’ name and livery did smarten the fleet up at the time 5/6 years ago but is now in need of replacing. Recent transfers in also haven’t been repainted into the RAF blue livery so I’m hoping they’re planning on a refresh this year - management do seem keen on the old red/orange/cream colours with all the heritage repaints!

Superoute 66 has certainly long lost its sparkle now downgraded to single deck and on a 20 minute frequency.

The Ipswich network has been cut back to the bare bones in recent years (and necessarily so in some respects) but there are certainly opportunities for them to pull back some ground. Hadleigh/Sudbury being a prime example (Beestons really have messed that up) and they’ve had success in Norwich with regaining Bungay and Fakenham.

Stowmarket is also an expanding town yet now only has the very slow and complicated 88/89 routes... another superoute long confined to history.

What are other people’s thoughts on this and First Eastern Counties in general? Norwich, Great Yarmouth, Lowestoft and Excel operations also. Would be great to get some discussion going!
 
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Being based in the Birmingham area, I merely visit other places to have a ride around on their buses every so often, though Eastern Counties is so time consuming that my first visit was last year , during a family holiday for Mon-Fri. I didn’t visit Ipswich so can’t comment on that side of the operation !

Norwich seemed very good. A mostly modern fleet with plenty of smart 2011/12 B9TLs, either new to Games Transport or recent cascades from Leeds I believe, mostly in colour coded liveries. It seems to be a common trend that the most successful First operations these days are the ones moving away from the standard scheme (West of England, Kernow, Leeds and Glasgow now starting to) so it seems a good idea, though Konectbus were also using a few different smart liveries on their modern fleet of 2011-15 E400s, with some 2011 Scania Omnilinks, an array of Optare Tempos and some other older double deckers mixed in.

A batch of 2016 Wright Streetdecks were operating the pink line to a major Hospital I believe, a good sign to future car users, who could switch to the bus. The rest of the double deck operations on the city network were all Dennis Tridents and Volvo B7TLs with Plaxton President bodywork. Now as a fan of these, very nice, but it was good to see most of these were in updated liveries despite their age, a good move as they could be the buses that could drag the operations image down imo.

The other single deckers viewed in Norwich were a batch of Streetlites for the green line, and some Volvo B7Ls, some with heritage liveries that looked very smart. Overall a good city operation from what I could tell, compared to other places, a good mix between older and newer vehicles :)

Now for Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft Services - some of which operate into Norwich so I will start with these...
Routes X2/21/22 are the express routes to Lowestoft, taking a few different routes I understand. These were pretty much all the ‘AU58’ plate Volvo B9TLs which are well suited with higher backed seats, some leather. With a good livery rebrand, these services could be transformed with existing vehicles I would say. Nothing wrong with the existing vehicles, but Lowestoft was full of too much of regular First liveried Vehicles for my liking. Mixed in each day seemed to be 1 2012 Enviro 200, perfectly adequate with the same leather seats (+ I think they are six cylinder examples) (44531-3 for anyone in the know!), 1 2012 Volvo B9TL, which it was the only one at Lowestoft, and one rather heritage ‘W-DWX’ Volvo B7TL. Wouldn’t put that on there myself but I only saw one on it so no big deal.

Local services in Lowestoft were all Dennis Darts, Enviro 200s and Volvo B7TLs. These seemed to be mainly the older generation using these so I understnd little need for more modern vehicles. The Darts all seemed well presented though the Enviro 200s were observed broken down, didn’t sound healthy and I even saw one in debranded Ipswich charcoal fronted design. The 99 out to Southwold and Kessingland was like the Norwich routes, a mix of Volvo B9TLs, B7TLs, and one of them 2012 Enviro 200s. First have done some nice route maps that show all the places of interest in the area; route 99 (Coastal Clipper), really needs a new brand to highlight this imo, same goes for the 1/A from Lowestoft upto Martham, via Great Yarmouth, also Coastal Clipper.

Great Yarmouth was a two sided operation in terms of the vehicles operated. One side modern (4 2014 Streetlites, a batch of around 6-8 B9TLs from Leeds and the 5 2013 Enviro 400s employed on the X1. The other side was a big mix of vintage stock - 3 2002 Volvo B7Ls, 1 2001 Scania L94UB, ~10 2005/6 Dennis Darts, ~6 2002 Plaxton President B7TLs, ~10 elderly 2000/1 ALX400 Volvo B7TLs. Now I can understand that it is a seasonal destination so otherwise sees decreased use, though the reliance of old B7TLs seems all too common with First now. Some of these were totally clapped out and sounded on their last legs, though all fairly well presented in the standard livery. An effort does seem to have been made to at least keep some of these on the Bernard Matthews contract (none of the newest stock) that I observed, for that is why some were recently acquired from Manchester, though still plenty on normal services. Not a good image outside James Paget Hospital, a major destination, though at least there were the newer stock mixed in going around here too. Overall, not a bad network of routes though more newer buses are going to be required soon! I believe a T reg Trident has recently joined for that contract too, very good from an enthusiast to still have these on the road!

By far the best operation is the trunk X1/11 routes, with a plentiful supply of Enviro 400s and various Volvo B9TLs being employed, the oldest 2008 ex Greenline ones I think. The route is rumoured to be getting an upgrade this year in the Peterborough leg, and if so this could release the others for use on the X1 and associated X11. That would make a big impact with the B9TLs used then available for the other routes, and hopefully withdrawal of the W plates could take place! The dedicated livery definitely made a big difference for me, and that is what this operation needs, along with some more modern vehicles to replace the oldest B7TLs. The route suffered some major reliability issues but regular passengers didn’t seem too bothered at Lowestoft, probably white common and they may undertsnd the issues a longbroite faces.
Otherwise, not a bad operation, I have certainly seen worse and with some rebranding, it would certainly compliment the smart Norwich network. From an enthusiast POV, definitely worth a few days riding around on, with something for everyone, I certainly enjoyed the E400s on the X1!

Hope this long message is of interest, even if I have rambled on about the specific types used!
 

buslad1988

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That’s a very good summary of the current operating situation. As you’ve noted marketing/publicity is pretty top notch these days it just needs to follow on to the vehicles a bit more (especially the coastal clipper brand).

In Norwich the colour coded routes appear to work very well and slowly they are regaining old ground lost to Anglian/Konectbus. It’s a tidy and balanced fleet which is well looked after.

Historically Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft have always received the oldest buses cascaded from Norwich/Ipswich so it’s nice in recent years they’ve gained a few new/newer buses. To make the Great Yarmouth brand stand out more perhaps a return to the Blue Bus name or Flying Banana (for the single deck/midibus town routes) could be utilised - adapting the new style Badgerline livery would work well for that.

Rumours are that the new order for the excel routes will be announced in the next few weeks - I’m not sure if it’s the whole XL/X1 route receiving new stock or just the XL western end? This will certainly result in a number of cascades although it’s a shame none of the current enviro 400’s can’t go to Ipswich for the X7 Felixstowe Express or 64 Aldeburgh routes (due to Ipswich garage not being able to accommodate full height deckers).

They do indeed do the heritage liveries very well - although a clear favourite of theirs is the early 1990’s scheme which is on an Ipswich ALX400, Lowestoft Dart SLF and two Norwich Volvo B7’s (not sure why they need two!? but I’m not complaining!).

Credit due to them in the past few years they really have turned their public perception around.
 
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Good idea, the Flying Banana brand would be a good revival to the Great Yarmouth local stuff.

Hopefully the new order is announced soon, I am intrigued whether they will get integral Enviro 400 MMCs or opt for something a bit different. Judging by the demos they had, and what’s on the market, it could be either Scania MMCs, Wright Streetdecks with six cylinder engines or even Scania Interlink Coaches. I’m guessing that BCIs would be more expensive due to import costs via Ensign and I’m not sure whether a Volvo B5TL chassis would be suitable. Another option would be the E400City seeing as it is a premium design, for a premium route !, like Glasgow are supposedly getting some for the airport route. Definitely keep us posted if you here anything.

Indeed, I noted the Great Yarmouth one, Flying Banana Dart, Lowestoft ALX400 and one of the Eastern Counties B7Ls. The Lowestoft one seemed a little dull but I assume it’s authentic. My favourite has to be the Great Yarmouth ALX400, such a smart livery imo.
 

F Great Eastern

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To be honest whilst that Ipswich livery looked nice at the time, the charcoal front really ages the buses.

From the outside when you see one of the recently transferred in ones from Lowestoft I believe, they a lot newer than the deckers the same age in the fleet, because the livery is far less dull and is much brighter.
 

goldisgood

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The Ipswich fleet is probably the poorest of the Norfolk and Suffolk fleet. Whilst on holiday there, the fleet was looking very aged (except for the very nice park and ride buses which I saw), with routes such as the 64 seeing old tridents and eclipses. The fleet was generally looking smart, and loadings on the routes around Ipswich were pretty good, with evening loadings on all services looking busy, although loadings on the 64 from the northern end throughout the day were discouraging to say the least!
Some refurbished buses such as the park and ride Enviro 300s could go a long way on services - these in particular looked very smart from the outside and looked fairly new. Shows what a coat of paint, a bright livery and some refurbishment can do! If the bus model looks relatively modern, the white LED displays also help make the buses look even newer.
 
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buslad1988

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To be honest whilst that Ipswich livery looked nice at the time, the charcoal front really ages the buses.

From the outside when you see one of the recently transferred in ones from Lowestoft I believe, they a lot newer than the deckers the same age in the fleet, because the livery is far less dull and is much brighter.

Definitely agree. It fades quickly and ages the buses pretty badly and it’s made even worse now they are starting to repaint odd panels as the colour difference stands out a mile! A quick search on Flickr demonstrates that; here’s an example (and there are worse): https://www.flickr.com/photos/greenbus1/32657857008/in/dateposted/

They were also supposed to be fitting the 53 plate Volvo B7TL’s with the Hanover screens taken from the Park & Ride enviro 300’s but that never happened. That would of also taken a few years off them. Although those flip dot screens have stood the test of time! Remarkably clear and still functioning perfectly for 16 year old equipment.
 

F Great Eastern

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The Ipswich fleet is probably the poorest of the Norfolk and Suffolk fleet. Whilst on holiday there, the fleet was looking very aged (except for the very nice park and ride buses which I saw), with routes such as the 64 seeing old tridents and eclipses.

Some refurbished buses such as the park and ride Enviro 300s could go a long way on services - these in particular looked very smart from the outside and looked fairly new. Shows what a coat of paint, a bright livery and some refurbishment can do! If the bus model looks relatively modern, the white LED displays also help make the buses look even newer.

Theres not any tridents, they are all Volvo based ALX400s - that's the only deckers they have in the fleet, mostly 53 plates with a few 05 plates. Then there is a mix of Eclipses, newest ones I think are on 58 plates, a handful of smaller and longer Enviro 200s from about 2009 or so, a single 13 plate Enviro 300 in fleet standard livery which is really lovely inside, often on 60/61 but back-up for the 800 and then you have the Park and Ride vehicles which to be fair, are really nice in a livery that really suits Ipswich.

Definitely agree. It fades quickly and ages the buses pretty badly and it’s made even worse now they are starting to repaint odd panels as the colour difference stands out a mile! A quick search on Flickr demonstrates that; here’s an example (and there are worse): https://www.flickr.com/photos/greenbus1/32657857008/in/dateposted/

They were also supposed to be fitting the 53 plate Volvo B7TL’s with the Hanover screens taken from the Park & Ride enviro 300’s but that never happened. That would of also taken a few years off them. Although those flip dot screens have stood the test of time! Remarkably clear and still functioning perfectly for 16 year old equipment.

The problem with that livery is that it looks fine when it's first painted, but as it fades it looks horrible. I'm no big fan of the standard First livery, but it doesn't age anywhere near as bad as the Ipswich one, if you placed the AU05 plate in standard First livery and the one in the Ipswich livery side by side, the First standard one looks about half the age, even if it looks more tired inside.

The difference between the charcoal on the side of the bus and the front is very odd looking on there.
 

buslad1988

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The Ipswich fleet is probably the poorest of the Norfolk and Suffolk fleet. Whilst on holiday there, the fleet was looking very aged (except for the very nice park and ride buses which I saw), with routes such as the 64 seeing old tridents and eclipses. The fleet was generally looking smart, and loadings on the routes around Ipswich were pretty good, with evening loadings on all services looking busy, although loadings on the 64 from the northern end were discouraging to say the least!
Some refurbished buses such as the park and ride Enviro 300s could go a long way on services - these in particular looked very smart from the outside and looked fairly new. Shows what a coat of paint, a bright livery and some refurbishment can do! If the bus model looks relatively modern, the white LED displays also help make the buses look even newer.

I think the problem with the 64 now is the journey time is just far too long. They could do with cutting out the Woodbridge estates which would save between 10-15 minutes. Granted having the Park & Ride service extend to Woodbridge/Rendlesham has also complicated matters.

They’ve recently simplified the Felixstowe services and the X7 is co-ordinated and timed very well (eg: first Ips-FX journey is 10am weekdays timed around OAP passes). My only niggle is why they didn’t take the opportunity to change the route numbers to something like 77/77A/77B as the 75/76/77 all follow the same route from Ipswich to Felixstowe Town Centre before splitting.

The Stowmarket corridor is in dire need of a rethink. It now takes just under an hour from Ipswich to Stowmarket Town Centre for a route which used to only take around 40-45 minutes. They could have one hourly express (X8?) then an 88 via Needham Market Estates hourly and perhaps an 88B as short journeys Ipswich - Bramford - Claydon only. Maybe try a couple of journeys a day through to Bury St Edmunds (for shoppers, day trippers).

Superoute 66 could probably be improved to every 15 minutes on weekday peaks. I’m not sure how busy they really are beyond the Tesco/BT at Martlesham although with the Retail Park expanding and a huge new housing estate due in the next year or so they’ll certainly be wanting a slice of that pie - and be trying to keep Ipswich Buses out of the picture too!

When they launched the big competition against Ipswich Buses a few years ago they did it too soon (before the refurbs, free wifi etc) and they should of focused on improving and expanding their inter-urban network first where the higher fares are imo.
 

buslad1988

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And today we finally have the news confirmed that Go Ahead are quitting the last of the old AnglianBus routes from March. The official (and somewhat bitter) statement is here: https://www.konectbus.co.uk/news/bus-service-withdrawals/

It’s no big surprise really; but it is a shame. With Border Bus and First competing on their most lucrative corridors they’ve effectively been pushed out although they never really gave much of a fight. Hopefully Go Ahead can focus on the core KonectBus network now to ensure its long term viability.

Be interesting to see if FEC extend their X41 further into Suffolk or maybe provide a connecting service? And where they’d find the resources from to provide these facilities.
 

carlberry

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And today we finally have the news confirmed that Go Ahead are quitting the last of the old AnglianBus routes from March. The official (and somewhat bitter) statement is here: https://www.konectbus.co.uk/news/bus-service-withdrawals/

It’s no big surprise really; but it is a shame. With Border Bus and First competing on their most lucrative corridors they’ve effectively been pushed out although they never really gave much of a fight. Hopefully Go Ahead can focus on the core KonectBus network now to ensure its long term viability.

Be interesting to see if FEC extend their X41 further into Suffolk or maybe provide a connecting service? And where they’d find the resources from to provide these facilities.
I don't know how any company can make a statement like 'high operating costs and poor reliability which we have been unable to address', i.e. we're crap and we cant manage our company and then follow it with the knifing First bit!
 

Busaholic

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And today we finally have the news confirmed that Go Ahead are quitting the last of the old AnglianBus routes from March. The official (and somewhat bitter) statement is here: https://www.konectbus.co.uk/news/bus-service-withdrawals/

It’s no big surprise really; but it is a shame. With Border Bus and First competing on their most lucrative corridors they’ve effectively been pushed out although they never really gave much of a fight. Hopefully Go Ahead can focus on the core KonectBus network now to ensure its long term viability.

Be interesting to see if FEC extend their X41 further into Suffolk or maybe provide a connecting service? And where they’d find the resources from to provide these facilities.
That's an unusually forthright statement! Without knowing the area at all, I'd hazard a guess there's been a breakdown of the relationship between the company and the County Council at the very least.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I don't know how any company can make a statement like 'high operating costs and poor reliability which we have been unable to address', i.e. we're crap and we cant manage our company and then follow it with the knifing First bit!

That's an unusually forthright statement! Without knowing the area at all, I'd hazard a guess there's been a breakdown of the relationship between the company and the County Council at the very least.

As per the Connexions statement (on the Transdev thread), that comes across as particularly unprofessional. In this instance, the complaint seems to be that people have deserted them in favour of First without really questioning why that may have happened (though perhaps the unreliability they refer to may have been an issue). The unreliability may not be in terms of breakdowns or staff shortages but even if it's about a timetable that they cannot achieve because of congestion, then the issue still comes back to Konectbus. A very strange statement especially given that they are still in Norwich.

Were this to be First who were cutting back and effectively closing down a business that they had purchased, there would be howls of anguish. As it is, Go East appear* (* don't know the area/op) to have managed the Anglian business poorly whilst First have done a bit of a job on them. In fact, it is reminiscent of the pushing out of Wessex from Bristol though, of course, Konectbus still have a reasonable business in Norwich though even here, First appear to have the upper hand with some recent service cuts from Konect and the decision to register and then not proceed with a replacement service when Stagecoach pulled out from Fakenham to Norwich.

This could be one to watch as a fair chunk of the remaining business is based on the P&R contract that is potentially due for tender in 2019/20. As for who will look to take up these withdrawn services, First might be interested in the main route to Southwold though BorderBus would be the most expected.
 
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goldisgood

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As per the Connexions statement (on the Transdev thread), that comes across as particularly unprofessional. In this instance, the complaint seems to be that people have deserted them in favour of First without really questioning why that may have happened (though perhaps the unreliability they refer to may have been an issue). The unreliability may not be in terms of breakdowns or staff shortages but even if it's about a timetable that they cannot achieve because of congestion, then the issue still comes back to Konectbus. A very strange statement especially given that they are still in Norwich.

Were this to be First who were cutting back and effectively closing down a business that they had purchased, there would be howls of anguish. As it is, Go East appear* (* don't know the area/op) to have managed the Anglian business poorly whilst First have done a bit of a job on them. In fact, it is reminiscent of the pushing out of Wessex from Bristol though, of course, Konectbus still have a reasonable business in Norwich though even here, First appear to have the upper hand with some recent service cuts from Konect and the decision to register and then not proceed with a replacement service when Stagecoach pulled out from Fakenham to Norwich.

This could be one to watch as a fair chunk of the remaining business is based on the P&R contract that is potentially due for tender in 2019/20. As for who will look to take up these withdrawn services, First might be interested in the main route to Southwold though BorderBus would be the most expected.
There have been rumours that Konect won't go for the next Park and Ride contract and will simply withdraw after they 'lose' it.
How is the Southwold route used? Are there many people going from Southwold past Bungay, as if not could First extend the X41 to Halesworth, and another company (BorderBus?) run Southwold to Bungay using a smaller bus?
 

F Great Eastern

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Interesting that they say that they hope First do not abandon passengers because they are not making enough from them, whilst doing exactly the same thing themselves.
 

Busaholic

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Interesting that they say that they hope First do not abandon passengers because they are not making enough from them, whilst doing exactly the same thing themselves.
Yes, that is bizarre. There's an old-fashioned phrase you don't hear much now, but I'm going to use it - Go Ahead are being mealy mouthed here.
 

buslad1988

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I think had they of been a small independent operator people may have been more sympathetic. Fact is Konectbus are part of Go-Ahead so to be blaming pretty much everyone else but themselves is pathetic.

It also wasn’t that long ago they tried (and failed) with a 37A Norwich city service in competition with First too - so to bemoan direct competition seems hypocritical.
 

goldisgood

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I think had they of been a small independent operator people may have been more sympathetic. Fact is Konectbus are part of Go-Ahead so to be blaming pretty much everyone else but themselves is pathetic.

It also wasn’t that long ago they tried (and failed) with a 37A Norwich city service in competition with First too - so to bemoan direct competition seems hypocritical.
The 37A is still running. Anyone know what loadings are like compared to First?
 

chubs

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First in Norwich have really upped their game these past few years after doing nothing for about 10 years. The new buses are (mostly) good, timekeeping has improved massively, friendly helpful drivers, contactless payment with ticketer. They abandoned a lot of routes but seem quite keep to regain ground. I would like to see the oldest buses retired (single and double deckers) as they're really getting on now and not pleasant to travel on. It would be nice to see the final buses in the old First livery finally repainted too, they've put it off long enough. Other gripes would be the twitter team not having a clue about Norwich (are they based in Leeds?) and quite high fares. Returns were discontinued recently too.....

The Anglian and Konect comments are interesting and a real shame as both these companies when independent picked up routes that First dropped and ran them with pride - brand new clean buses always well turned out, friendly drivers, reliable etc when First were at their lowest point. The Go Ahead takeover has not been kind, although it's impossible to say how they would have ended up even if they remained independent I guess. I regularly travel on Konect's single deckers and they are knackered and often dirty inside and out. The Bluestar cast off's are even worse. Credit to the drivers who are a really good crew and hold it together, they're especially good with the elderly and less mobile customers.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Interesting to get these "on the ground" reports of FEC. It's one of those firms that seems to fly under the radar, even more surprisingly as it's a First opco and so usually would elicit more scrutiny. With the exception of the odd trip on the Western end of XL, and a visit a few years ago to the Beccles area, it's not an operation I know so good to get these posts.

They abandoned a lot of routes but seem quite keep to regain ground. I would like to see the oldest buses retired (single and double deckers) as they're really getting on now and not pleasant to travel on. It would be nice to see the final buses in the old First livery finally repainted too, they've put it off long enough.

They do have some old fleet in terms of their remaining B7Ls as well as a number of Tridents and B7TLs and seem to recall reading that the former were due for early withdrawal though I guess that any increase in PVR may delay that. Perhaps those still in Barbie are those destined to move on in future, either disposal or to other opcos.

One thing that looking from afar is that they've quietly got on with undermining the main threat (Go Ahead) whilst generally upping their game. Fleet replacement has been with very modest numbers of new vehicles and that reflects one of the problems with First. They have limited capital to spend in UK Bus and that is concentrated mainly on those areas where they have to act, either because of partnership or LEZ commitments (e.g. Cornwall, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol). Therefore, there's relatively little for other operations that don't have those factors. Perhaps the hope is that a new fleet for XL will come along at some point, allowing cascading of that fleet onto other work, plus with selected cascades from those areas getting new fleet (e.g. more exiled late model B9TLs from Leeds or Streetdecks from Bristol).
 

chubs

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Interesting to get these "on the ground" reports of FEC. It's one of those firms that seems to fly under the radar, even more surprisingly as it's a First opco and so usually would elicit more scrutiny. With the exception of the odd trip on the Western end of XL, and a visit a few years ago to the Beccles area, it's not an operation I know so good to get these posts.



They do have some old fleet in terms of their remaining B7Ls as well as a number of Tridents and B7TLs and seem to recall reading that the former were due for early withdrawal though I guess that any increase in PVR may delay that. Perhaps those still in Barbie are those destined to move on in future, either disposal or to other opcos.

One thing that looking from afar is that they've quietly got on with undermining the main threat (Go Ahead) whilst generally upping their game. Fleet replacement has been with very modest numbers of new vehicles and that reflects one of the problems with First. They have limited capital to spend in UK Bus and that is concentrated mainly on those areas where they have to act, either because of partnership or LEZ commitments (e.g. Cornwall, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol). Therefore, there's relatively little for other operations that don't have those factors. Perhaps the hope is that a new fleet for XL will come along at some point, allowing cascading of that fleet onto other work, plus with selected cascades from those areas getting new fleet (e.g. more exiled late model B9TLs from Leeds or Streetdecks from Bristol).

They've always put new buses on the old X1 route (it's had 3 or 4 new fleets in the past 15 years or so) and the 25 blue line (University) route. Until recently all the other routes only ever got cast off's but now red, green and pink have new fleets it really shows up how old the others are.

Not sure about undermining Go Ahead, they have to an extent but now Go Ahead have taken over Konect and Anglian they don't seem very interested in expansion, in fact it's cuts after cuts. Konect and Anglian picked up lots of work when First were cutting routes and not investing ages ago and now we have the opposite.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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They've always put new buses on the old X1 route (it's had 3 or 4 new fleets in the past 15 years or so) and the 25 blue line (University) route. Until recently all the other routes only ever got cast off's but now red, green and pink have new fleets it really shows up how old the others are.

Not sure about undermining Go Ahead, they have to an extent but now Go Ahead have taken over Konect and Anglian they don't seem very interested in expansion, in fact it's cuts after cuts. Konect and Anglian picked up lots of work when First were cutting routes and not investing ages ago and now we have the opposite.

Yeah, perhaps undermining was overstating it. Just that aside from the Poringland/Bungay route, they've not really gone for confrontation with Go Ahead but instead have improved their service almost by default, this has taken some trade off Go Ahead. That said, Go Ahead have really helped them. It would be interesting to see if they would move back into areas such as Watton at some point but probably getting a little bit ahead of things there.

The last X1/XL upgrade displaced the B9TLs to the X2? The last change was five years ago and I think there's been some demonstrators on the route (?) so one might hope something new may arrive and again allow some cascades again.
 

90sWereBetter

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One of the ideas mooted during my brief period working for FEC in 2017 was for the XL Enviros to be cascaded to Lowestoft for the X2, once again displacing the 2008 B9s to new homes. Some of the B9s would stay at Lowestoft and the rest would go to Yarmouth, wiping out the W-reg B7s at both depots.

Another idea was for the B9s to head to Ipswich to replace the 53-reg and 05-reg B7s, which would then head to the coast to replace the W-regs. That would be dependent on Ipswich garage being upgraded to take full-height deckers, which will prove to be a major issue when the current Ipswich decker fleet comes up for renewal in a few years. The 53-reg B7s are probably the best buses FEC have ever bought, they just keep going although they are admittedly looking tired externally.

The B7L single deckers are on the chopping block at both Norwich and Yarmouth, some have already come out of service.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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One of the ideas mooted during my brief period working for FEC in 2017 was for the XL Enviros to be cascaded to Lowestoft for the X2, once again displacing the 2008 B9s to new homes. Some of the B9s would stay at Lowestoft and the rest would go to Yarmouth, wiping out the W-reg B7s at both depots.

Another idea was for the B9s to head to Ipswich to replace the 53-reg and 05-reg B7s, which would then head to the coast to replace the W-regs. That would be dependent on Ipswich garage being upgraded to take full-height deckers, which will prove to be a major issue when the current Ipswich decker fleet comes up for renewal in a few years. The 53-reg B7s are probably the best buses FEC have ever bought, they just keep going although they are admittedly looking tired externally.

The B7L single deckers are on the chopping block at both Norwich and Yarmouth, some have already come out of service.

I was thinking of the XL fleet indeed heading to the X2 and the B9s then moving to Norwich to dislodge B7TLs, to replace the oldest examples at GY and Lowestoft, and Tridents.

Confess I’d forgotten about the Ipswich depot issue and whilst the B7/ALX combo is good, they’re not getting any younger!
 

chubs

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I'd rather the B9s stayed in Norwich and replaced the oldest B7/B7TL's, they're all ex London aren't they? They let the experience down.
 

buslad1988

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It’s a shame FEC aren’t able to get stock coming out of London.. 11 plate Volvo B9/Gemini’s (like those gone to Lothian) and enviro 200’s (advertised on ensign) were all available already with First spec interiors - which would of meant they only required centre door removal and light refurb.

They’d of been ideal to replace old stock in Norwich and Great Yarmouth.

That’s the trouble now First don’t operate in London - the days of those cascades are gone. Remember the wright handybuses! and obviously more recently Presidents.

I’m not sure what the cheap answer is to the Ipswich problem of garage height - but majority of their deckers are 16 years old this year. They’ve stood the test of time well. Back in the late 1990’s previous First management did want Ipswich to become a full single deck allocation - I remember it being a story in local press about the days of being able to sit on the top deck being numbered!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It’s a shame FEC aren’t able to get stock coming out of London.. 11 plate Volvo B9/Gemini’s (like those gone to Lothian) and enviro 200’s (advertised on ensign) were all available already with First spec interiors - which would of meant they only required centre door removal and light refurb.

They’d of been ideal to replace old stock in Norwich and Great Yarmouth.

That’s the trouble now First don’t operate in London - the days of those cascades are gone. Remember the wright handybuses! and obviously more recently Presidents.

I’m not sure what the cheap answer is to the Ipswich problem of garage height - but majority of their deckers are 16 years old this year. They’ve stood the test of time well. Back in the late 1990’s previous First management did want Ipswich to become a full single deck allocation - I remember it being a story in local press about the days of being able to sit on the top deck being numbered!

Think that was the issue - they had lots of ex London deckers to find homes for and meant many fleets got little new investment. In Bristol area, we had 6 new deckers in 5 years!

Instead you may get more ex Leeds kit, rather than London?

Would e400s fit in Ipswich depot?
 

Andyh82

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First West Yorkshire’s Todmorden depot used to be low height meaning no modern double decks could fit in. A few years ago they just took the roof off.

It was mainly so they could get rid of all the roof supports though as they were getting in the way of parking today’s length of single deckers
 

chubs

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It’s a shame FEC aren’t able to get stock coming out of London.. 11 plate Volvo B9/Gemini’s (like those gone to Lothian) and enviro 200’s (advertised on ensign) were all available already with First spec interiors - which would of meant they only required centre door removal and light refurb.

Disagree, why should we be stuck with London cast off's? The current lot of London cast off's were pretty tatty and knackered when they first arrived and looked old when they first arrived in Norwich. It puts people off.
 

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