First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[-Colly405-]

My personal opinion is that the success of the 82 has been down to the fact it serves Cribbs. Everytime I've been on that route the majority of passengers have been traveling to/from The Mall and only a handful at most on the section between Cribbs and Southmead. Am also aware that it is well used by college students during term time. As such I do feel that an extension or variation of the existing 19 route so that it served Southmead Hospital would allow the majority of areas covered by the 10 to continue to be served by bus and ensure coverage is provided by what is obviously a commercially viable route.

which brings me to another topic, destination displays.

In my opinion, the new format blinds are so much less helpful than the previous ones.

Take the 82, mentioned above. The blinds make no mention of Cribbs, Winterbourne or Yate; being either Southmead via Parkway, or Sodbury via Parkway.

Northbound 73 makes no mention of how it gets from the City Centre to Cribbs. Ditto 75.

Some journeys don't even mention one via point, having just the final destination. Even on cross city routes such as the 1, 2, 75 and 76.

All in all much less information than the old blinds.

What's the rationale for changing these?

 

[Marcus Fryer]

I moved to Backwell in 1972 and think my first ride would have been on a MW on the 354. Would the 352/3 have been REs at that time? On City services I remember the FLFs.

I can remember when the City services were predominantly KSWs, with a C prefix to the fleet number and carried the city's coat of arms, before the city's interest was bought out by the National Bus Company.

 

[swifty]

All in all much less information than the old blinds.

What's the rationale for changing these?

Don’t get me started!

I think they guys doing it said it was because the blinds were to hard to understand(!) as they were, and no one read the via points anyway.

 

[freetoview33]

Don’t get me started!

I think they guys doing it said it was because the blinds were to hard to understand(!) as they were, and no one read the via points anyway.

What a load of rubbish

 

[D2007wsm]

What a load of rubbish

The old layout on the Hanovers looked a lot better and more informative. Some services, the new layout looks very cluttered and on cross-city services 'via City Centre' is a nuisance. Once it has left the City Centre it won't visit it again on that trip.

 

[father_jack]

Don’t get me started!

I think they guys doing it said it was because the blinds were to hard to understand(!) as they were, and no one read the via points anyway.

Unfortunately people DO read the "via" points and that's why they are more trouble than their worth !!! Anyone who doesn't actually buy a point to point ticket can be led in the wrong direction oh so easily. Come out of say Temple Meads, the bus stop at the bottom on the left, well you want the Centre and you'll easily get on a 1 "via Centre" and end up in Broomhill............

 

[Dai Corner]

Unfortunately people DO read the "via" points and that's why they are more trouble than their worth !!! Anyone who doesn't actually buy a point to point ticket can be led in the wrong direction oh so easily. Come out of say Temple Meads, the bus stop at the bottom on the left, well you want the Centre and you'll easily get on a 1 "via Centre" and end up in Broomhill............

Couldn't they be updated en route?

 

[freetoview33]

Unfortunately people DO read the "via" points and that's why they are more trouble than their worth !!! Anyone who doesn't actually buy a point to point ticket can be led in the wrong direction oh so easily. Come out of say Temple Meads, the bus stop at the bottom on the left, well you want the Centre and you'll easily get on a 1 "via Centre" and end up in Broomhill............

But In Bristol with so many services terminating at the same points surly it is more confusing!

 

[father_jack]

Couldn't they be updated en route?

I'm sure GPS could do it but the number of internal "Next Stop Nelson St" when you're in Kingswood shows the system doesn't really work.

 

[D2007wsm]

Couldn't they be updated en route?

Yes but that's is just another set of destinations to program in and another thing for the driver to remember to do.

 

[-Colly405-]

There have always been numerous cases where the points on the ciablind have been passed but remain on display.

My point was more about the lack of information now on the screen, e.g. once they are in Cheltenham Rd, the 73 and 75 have no via distinction now despite having significantly different routes.

Yes at the same rime we now have *more* information as those routes that terminate in the city now show what street they stop at. Particularly usepesa as I'm sure your average Bristolian has no idea where Rupert St actually is!

And most 73s now show 'Temple Meads via City Centre', whilst lost 70s are mainly just 'Temple Meads BR Sign'.

73 makes no mention of Parkway but shows Cribbs (as it is the final destination).
82 makes no mention of Cribbs but shows via Parkway.
Inconsistent!

At least the T1+T2 are reasonable, showing Thornbury via Bradley Stoke or Cribbs. But there's no mention of Aztec West, Almondsbury or Alveston.

I could go and on about this.. but won't!

 

[Whiteway215]

Steve White tells us 44906 is the second bus gone to Glasgow. Excellent!!

 

[carlberry]

There have always been numerous cases where the points on the ciablind have been passed but remain on display.

My point was more about the lack of information now on the screen, e.g. once they are in Cheltenham Rd, the 73 and 75 have no via distinction now despite having significantly different routes.

Yes at the same rime we now have *more* information as those routes that terminate in the city now show what street they stop at. Particularly usepesa as I'm sure your average Bristolian has no idea where Rupert St actually is!

And most 73s now show 'Temple Meads via City Centre', whilst lost 70s are mainly just 'Temple Meads BR Sign'.

73 makes no mention of Parkway but shows Cribbs (as it is the final destination).
82 makes no mention of Cribbs but shows via Parkway.
Inconsistent!

At least the T1+T2 are reasonable, showing Thornbury via Bradley Stoke or Cribbs. But there's no mention of Aztec West, Almondsbury or Alveston.

I could go and on about this.. but won't!

Without a via screen can be reliably updated by GPS (which currently it cant so don't try) then the display should be the number (or identifying description) and final destination. If that dosent make things unique then more work is needed on the numbers. All the via stuff should be on the bus stop which dosent have to rely on technology. The most stupid recent display was when somebody realised the rear displays had more space than was needed to display a number so decided to rotate the destination through the 'spare' space producing something that was pointless and distracting. Just cause something is technically possible dosent actually mean it's worth doing.

 

[D2007wsm]

Without a via screen can be reliably updated by GPS (which currently it cant so don't try) then the display should be the number (or identifying description) and final destination. If that dosent make things unique then more work is needed on the numbers. All the via stuff should be on the bus stop which dosent have to rely on technology. The most stupid recent display was when somebody realised the rear displays had more space than was needed to display a number so decided to rotate the destination through the 'spare' space producing something that was pointless and distracting. Just cause something is technically possible dosent actually mean it's worth doing.

Exactly and with more and more vehicles carrying route branding, this carries a lot of information too.

If less information was shown, it would make people less complacent and more aware of their surroundings.

 

[-Colly405-]

So take the 82, for example, as a route that at two of its main traffic points - Parkway and Cribbs - and through Stoke Gifford, and at Cribbs Coach Park, both directions use the same stop. Should there not be something on the outside of the bus so that, say, people at Parkway know which bus will get them to Cribbs, as a major destination? And vice versa?

Surely a bus should advertise where it is going to attract potential passengers?

 

[WelshBluebird]

If less information was shown, it would make people less complacent and more aware of their surroundings.

Now I have read it all.
If you want less people to use buses, then go ahead, give less information and make them harder for the general public to use.

 

[carlberry]

So take the 82, for example, as a route that at two of its main traffic points - Parkway and Cribbs - and through Stoke Gifford, and at Cribbs Coach Park, both directions use the same stop. Should there not be something on the outside of the bus so that, say, people at Parkway know which bus will get them to Cribbs, as a major destination? And vice versa?

Surely a bus should advertise where it is going to attract potential passengers?

It should advertise where it's going, it shouldnt advertise where it's been.

For example at Parkway the options should be 82 SOUTHMEAD and 82 CHIPPING SODBURY
The alternative is 82 SOUTHMEAD via Cribbs Causeway and 82 CHIPPING SODBURY via Cribbs Causeway (with the destination now smaller as a result of the extra space neeeded).

 

[D2007wsm]

Now I have read it all.
If you want less people to use buses, then go ahead, give less information and make them harder for the general public to use.

No you haven't read it all, on a route branded vehicle the same information is provided in several places on the vehicle, the Hanover is only duplicating what is allready there! In the case of an unbranded vehicle a little more information may be desirable, but in the old from at by the time it had scrolled through all of the 'Via' points it may be too late anyway.

How did people manage when it was destination blinds which just showed the service number and destination with an occasional 'Via' point? The advent of all this new technology, causes people to rely on it.

 

[swifty]

No you haven't read it all, on a route branded vehicle the same information is provided in several places on the vehicle, the Hanover is only duplicating what is allready there! In the case of an unbranded vehicle a little more information may be desirable, but in the old from at by the time it had scrolled through all of the 'Via' points it may be too late anyway.

The majority of the destination displays in FWoE had been changed to static via points in the last few years.

45 for example went from scrolling Lawrence Hill, St George, Hanham & Longwell Green to a static via Hanham.

They did the job and were legable from a distance and looked presentable, I’m not sure the same can be said for the new displays.

 

[D2007wsm]

The majority of the destination displays in FWoE had been changed to static via points in the last few years.

45 for example went from scrolling Lawrence Hill, St George, Hanham & Longwell Green to a static via Hanham.

They did the job and were legable from a distance and looked presentable, I’m not sure the same can be said for the new displays.

Yes the new ones look extremely cluttered and sometimes the text in the orange box is hard to read or in the case of a ALX400 which still has a flip dot destination, very hard to read.

There was nothing wrong with how they were, so if it isn't broke, why fox it?

 

[ooo]

They did the job and were legable from a distance and looked presentable, I’m not sure the same can be said for the new displays.

Personally I find them clearer and easier to read from afar

 

[Whiteway215]

i would say the 20 could well be a replacement for the whiteway - uni 20 section of route

the U2 will replace the south of bath stuff with a 42 replacement in the middle

If I have interpreted the map on the Ralph Ailen School website correctly, I think the U2 will be operated as follows. As existing route Un of Bath to Coronation Avenue. New route starts its loop around Twerton/Whiteway by turning left into Lymore Avenue, Shophouse Rd, Twerton High St, Watery Lane, Poolemead Rd, The Circle, Haycome Drive, Mount Rd, Englishcombe Lane, rejoining Rush Hill and then back to the Uni. The Lymore Ave to Rush Hill section is the route the soon to end 20A currently takes. That is my interpretation but no doubt we will hear the official version before long.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

The majority of the destination displays in FWoE had been changed to static via points in the last few years.

45 for example went from scrolling Lawrence Hill, St George, Hanham & Longwell Green to a static via Hanham.

They did the job and were legable from a distance and looked presentable, I’m not sure the same can be said for the new displays.

Interestingly, at least some of the via 'boxes' on the 8 to Bristol Zoo alternate between 'via City Centre' and 'via Clifton'.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If I have interpreted the map on the Ralph Ailen School website correctly, I think the U2 will be operated as follows. As existing route Un of Bath to Coronation Avenue. New route starts its loop around Twerton/Whiteway by turning left into Lymore Avenue, Shophouse Rd, Twerton High St, Watery Lane, Poolemead Rd, The Circle, Haycome Drive, Mount Rd, Englishcombe Lane, rejoining Rush Hill and then back to the Uni. The Lymore Ave to Rush Hill section is the route the soon to end 20A currently takes. That is my interpretation but no doubt we will hear the official version before long.

So no longer going around Lower Oldfield Park?

 

[-Colly405-]

How did people manage when it was destination blinds which just showed the service number and destination with an occasional 'Via' point? The advent of all this new technology, causes people to rely on it.

I was brought up on Plymouth City Transport/Citybus. Via blind showing usually 2 via points, sometimes 3. With clarity.

 

[Whiteway215]

N

So no longer going around Lower Oldfield Park?

. No I don't believe so.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If I have interpreted the map on the Ralph Ailen School website correctly, I think the U2 will be operated as follows. As existing route Un of Bath to Coronation Avenue. New route starts its loop around Twerton/Whiteway by turning left into Lymore Avenue, Shophouse Rd, Twerton High St, Watery Lane, Poolemead Rd, The Circle, Haycome Drive, Mount Rd, Englishcombe Lane, rejoining Rush Hill and then back to the Uni. The Lymore Ave to Rush Hill section is the route the soon to end 20A currently takes. That is my interpretation but no doubt we will hear the official version before long.

Two timetables posted on a local Facebook group yesterday evening, not sure of the source though!

20: https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=327bfc6bf7db8c614039257313168215&oe=5BC65021

U2: https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=267c2565586f1c69c65fa36d7569207d&oe=5BC5FE6B

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Two timetables posted on a local Facebook group yesterday evening, not sure of the source though!

20: https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=327bfc6bf7db8c614039257313168215&oe=5BC65021

U2: https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=267c2565586f1c69c65fa36d7569207d&oe=5BC5FE6B

Hmmm... 20 goes from a 5 to a 2 bus working with the U2 picking up a chunk of it.

So just waiting to see what the 12 and 42 replacements are? Gut feeling that the 42 will be replaced by the 4 (as per S/Su/BH) but the 12? Will there be a reprieve for some of Bath's Solos...which reminds me! Weren't these due during the summer? Any news?

 

[Whiteway215]

I see there is no U2 Saturday service during the University holidays. I wonder what will work the U2-will deckers be needed and will the purple B7s be back. If so it will be interesting hearing them grinding up the hills from Twerton High Street.
I read a while ago the Twerton Estate residents were complaining too many buses were passing through. The 20 minute U2 service isn't going to please them.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see there is no U2 Saturday service during the University holidays. I wonder what will work the U2-will deckers be needed and will the purple B7s be back. If so it will be interesting hearing them grinding up the hills from Twerton High Street.
I read a while ago the Twerton Estate residents were complaining too many buses were passing through. The 20 minute U2 service isn't going to please them.

You would really hope that the purple B7TLs would be pensioned off (good servants as they have been) - had 32014 on the U2 a few months ago and it was not a particularly nice experience! Perhaps get 32283/4/5/91 drafted in and so eradicate DD Barbie colours though with the need to get the P&R deckers done (36807 and 35116 deputising on Friday pm) and the X39 deckers away, that sort of thing may have to wait.

BTW, apologies if I'm a little confused (it happens) but is the plan for deckers....

37757-67 to get re-engineered to Euro 6 for the X39
39133-41 to get re-powered from hybrid to Euro 6
37768-72 plus the B9TLs dislodged from the 903 P&R to go to Wells

Just a little confused as to what is going on at the moment - a mix of fleet on the X39 this morning with 37763 alongside 32280.