First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Goldfish62]

As Amazon/Deliveroo/Uber etc always say, they're offering employment that fits in with what people want. There may be a large number of potential bus drivers who are only intrested in very early mornings, late evenings and Sundays. Possibly (as the journeys may carry few people) they might consider rickshaws or tandem bikes to expand the potential workforce. It could all be very trendy and modern!

If they're offered as part-time shifts, eg early morning only then yes. Different story if they're split shifts I'd say. I used to loathe them when driving and so did most of my colleagues.

Offering part time shifts means more staff on books which means higher admin costs as well.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not the best way of recruiting and retaining staff.

Of course, the reality is that you are going to have a bus that will....

Do a couple of morning runs on tendered service A (before FK peer out of the depot)
Do a full day on tendered service B (some low patronage stuff for pensioners and criminally insane) from 0800 to 1800 - such as the 8
Do three or four evening runs on tendered service C (after FK have packed up)

All operated by two drivers not working split shifts or part of the gig economy.

The only problem with that is if you have every bus out doing 18 hour days but I suspect they won't

 

[richw]

Also, you're way out on your PVR. There's two main vehicles that I can see running

I hadn’t noticed the T1/2 were duplicated on each route timetable. But the timetable takes at least 3 vehicles, possibly 4.

 

[richw]

Of course, the reality is that you are going to have a bus that will....

Do a couple of morning runs on tendered service A (before FK peer out of the depot)
Do a full day on tendered service B (some low patronage stuff for pensioners and criminally insane) from 0800 to 1800 - such as the 8
Do three or four evening runs on tendered service C (after FK have packed up)

All operated by two drivers not working split shifts or part of the gig economy.

The only problem with that is if you have every bus out doing 18 hour days but I suspect they won't

there is more morning/evening splits than all day services. So balancing it may mean buses get a few hours rest in the day

 

[Busaholic]

There should be plenty of vehicles available from daytime services, the bigger problem might be drivers if the shifts are heavily loaded with evening and Sunday work.
Of course the logical thing would have been to sub contract to the daytime provider who would have liveried vehicles and drivers in the correct places!

.... is the right answer! The 'one size fits all' approach rarely works. If First drivers do little or no scheduled evening and Sunday work and offer better pay, how will the competition get sufficient drivers to cover all their considerable amount of such working? If the answer is to employ drivers they wouldn't otherwise touch with a bargepole, it won't be a satisfactory one. I really doubt this has all been thought through sufficiently on a practical level by the tenderers i.e. the Council. Have they gone well out of their depth and will need rescuing? Hate to suggest parallels with Brexit, but all this is only a little over a month away and it appears there's so much to sort out. Where is Liam Fox to assure us (ha! ha!) that all will seamlessly click into place as if by osmosis?

 

[Goldfish62]

On the DVSA website this afternoon appeared new registrations from FK for some routes for which they'd already had variations accepted, eg M6, T1/T2, 35, 47 etc. All valid from 29 March.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I hadn’t noticed the T1/2 were duplicated on each route timetable. But the timetable takes at least 3 vehicles, possibly 4.

It's three buses at worst in the evening and one of those is doing one round trip from Camborne to Penzance.

I have nothing against FK (or pro PCB) but I'm struggling to see why people are thinking that PCB won't have scheduled this properly, or have the right vehicles in the right place.

 

[richw]

I have nothing against FK (or pro PCB) but I'm struggling to see why people are thinking that PCB won't have scheduled this properly, or have the right vehicles in the right place

because although we work for different operators many of us have friends and aquaintances at the other.
From friends who work at pcb they’ve all said the same thing and it isn’t good. Current drivers are in uproar as an agency is advertising citybus 6 month temp positions at £14 per hour, plus meals and accommodation. They were already unhappy because of the £11 hour but current not offered pay rise from £9.50.
Because they are so unhappy surrounding this they are all quite happy to share inside information. They have approx 60 enviro 200mmc and 30 enviro 400 city coming. They have nowhere close to required number of staff hence the agency’s being used. They were anticipating approx 100 drivers to jump from FSW and stagecoach. Reality is in single figures!

 

[MB162435]

It depends on how successful Kernow's new commercial services are, whether Kernow has just registered them to starve GCB of drivers or if they are connecting places that need a bus service

So far I think it's just to starve GCB of staff, the only new commercial services I've seen so far is the L1 Lizard - Truro which follows GCB's 36 and the 47 Troon - St Day which again follows GCBs 47.

So far, Kernow hasn't registered any new services serving any unserved or forgotten places

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

because although we work for different operators many of us have friends and aquaintances at the other.
From friends who work at pcb they’ve all said the same thing and it isn’t good. Current drivers are in uproar as an agency is advertising citybus 6 month temp positions at £14 per hour, plus meals and accommodation. They were already unhappy because of the £11 hour but current not offered pay rise from £9.50.
Because they are so unhappy surrounding this they are all quite happy to share inside information. They have approx 60 enviro 200mmc and 30 enviro 400 city coming. They have nowhere close to required number of staff hence the agency’s being used. They were anticipating approx 100 drivers to jump from FSW and stagecoach. Reality is in single figures!

In fairness, did say "I'm struggling to see why people are thinking that PCB won't have scheduled this properly, or have the right vehicles in the right place" not talking about drivers. Fully appreciate that driver recruitment is the greatest risk but that isn't what I said.

We're seeing people getting concerned about not having appropriate vehicles into Mousehole based on an FB comment. Talk of split shifts when it clearly suggests that the odd tendered runs will sit around the other all day work. Concerns about 7/8 vehicles being needed for the evening Tinners when it's three.

It is fair to highlight the concerns on ticketing, driver recruitment and the wacky new services/enhancements that CC seem to want and whether it's a good use of public funds. However, some levity needs to be applied - that's what I'm saying.

 

[richw]

So far I think it's just to starve GCB of staff, the only new commercial services I've seen so far is the L1 Lizard - Truro which follows GCB's 36 and the 47 Troon - St Day which again follows GCBs 47.

there’s also the enhanced 213. I haven’t looked through other college services to see if any others like this

 

[richw]

We're seeing people getting concerned about not having appropriate vehicles into Mousehole based on an FB comment.

but that comment has come from multiple citybus employees, it isn’t just one comment, including a senior member of staff which in my opinion gives it weight and there is no smoke without fire

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

but that comment has come from multiple citybus employees, it isn’t just one comment, including a senior member of staff which in my opinion gives it weight and there is no smoke without fire

 

[Goldfish62]

It depends on how successful Kernow's new commercial services are, whether Kernow has just registered them to starve GCB of drivers or if they are connecting places that need a bus service

So far I think it's just to starve GCB of staff, the only new commercial services I've seen so far is the L1 Lizard - Truro which follows GCB's 36 and the 47 Troon - St Day which again follows GCBs 47.

So far, Kernow hasn't registered any new services serving any unserved or forgotten places

As I mentioned above FK have now registered at short notice route 47 through to Truro and the existing L1 between Redruth and Lizard, as well as a host of other routes which they had previously applied to vary.

 

[MB162435]

As I mentioned above FK have now registered at short notice route 47 through to Truro and the existing L1 between Redruth and Lizard, as well as a host of other routes which they had previously applied to vary.

Think Kernow's post March 47 service is at the moment banking on the tourist market, going from St Day Holiday Park, which I assume Kernow is hoping they all want a day out in Portreath or connect at Camborne or Redruth to their other services?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As I mentioned above FK have now registered at short notice route 47 through to Truro and the existing L1 between Redruth and Lizard, as well as a host of other routes which they had previously applied to vary.

Think Kernow's post March 47 service is at the moment banking on the tourist market, going from St Day Holiday Park, which I assume Kernow is hoping they all want a day out in Portreath or connect at Camborne or Redruth to their other services?

It's a perfectly sensible strategy. FK will wish to protect their market share and also retain their staff. They know the ridership figures and know what pays and what doesn't, and as long as you're paying the running costs, extra is either a contribution to the fixed overheads (depots, management etc) or profit.

Also, why would they want to make things easy for PCB so some tactical registrations make sense. That FK aren't registering new routes isn't a surprise. Travelling patterns are long established and if CC want to spend money on some spurious new services, then that's their call.

 

[carlberry]

I fully expect that the upcoming changes will be a disaster (at least according to a few local newspapers, illustrated with pictures of old age pensioners standing in front of bus stops **) with everybody involved blaming everybody else (County Council, Go, First, the government, Brexit, the millennium bug etc).

Within a couple of weeks of the change the rough edges will have been dealt with and it'll all be working smoothly again (as smoothly as it does normally!) and the only time it'll be mentioned will be a couple of stories in the summer about how the improved bus service in (insert local traffic hotspot) is causing congestion because they're meeting more caravan owners that cant reverse.

In a couple of years time everybody will be up in arms because the tendering round will happen again and everybody will refer to the previous disaster, via reprinted newspaper headlines, pointing out how it also caused flooding and the spread of a new virus.


** - there really should be an investigation into the effect on pensioners of being repeatedly asked to come out of their nice warm homes so they can stand around in front of a bus stop looking cold/angry, or is there an agency that supplies them?

 

[Goldfish62]

It's a perfectly sensible strategy. FK will wish to protect their market share and also retain their staff. They know the ridership figures and know what pays and what doesn't, and as long as you're paying the running costs, extra is either a contribution to the fixed overheads (depots, management etc) or profit.

Also, why would they want to make things easy for PCB so some tactical registrations make sense. That FK aren't registering new routes isn't a surprise. Travelling patterns are long established and if CC want to spend money on some spurious new services, then that's their call.

It's a very good strategy. After being a total basket case in FDC that most people hoped would be put out of its misery FSW has turned into a successful business and I for one am glad they're determined to defend what they've achieved over the last few years.

 

[Goldfish62]

In a couple of years time everybody will be up in arms because the tendering round will happen again and everybody will refer to the previous disaster, via reprinted newspaper headlines, pointing out how it also caused flooding and the spread of a new virus.

The contract is for eight years. Is there a break clause after two years then?

You forgot to mention Coronavirus in that blame list.

 

[Goldfish62]

Further update : all the services newly registered by FK yesterday are showing as wholly or partly supported. Suggests that PCB has chucked in the towel on these routes.

 

[carlberry]

The contract is for eight years. Is there a break clause after two years then?

You forgot to mention Coronavirus in that blame list.

Sorry, I couldnt find the contract length so 8 years. There will be a new virus along by then!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I fully expect that the upcoming changes will be a disaster (at least according to a few local newspapers, illustrated with pictures of old age pensioners standing in front of bus stops **) with everybody involved blaming everybody else (County Council, Go, First, the government, Brexit, the millennium bug etc).

Within a couple of weeks of the change the rough edges will have been dealt with and it'll all be working smoothly again (as smoothly as it does normally!) and the only time it'll be mentioned will be a couple of stories in the summer about how the improved bus service in (insert local traffic hotspot) is causing congestion because they're meeting more caravan owners that cant reverse.

In a couple of years time everybody will be up in arms because the tendering round will happen again and everybody will refer to the previous disaster, via reprinted newspaper headlines, pointing out how it also caused flooding and the spread of a new virus.


** - there really should be an investigation into the effect on pensioners of being repeatedly asked to come out of their nice warm homes so they can stand around in front of a bus stop looking cold/angry, or is there an agency that supplies them?

Yep - that's usually the life cycle

Made me laugh about the pensioners

It's a very good strategy. After being a total basket case in FDC that most people hoped would be put out of its misery FSW has turned into a successful business and I for one am glad they're determined to defend what they've achieved over the last few years.

I think most of us are impressed with how AC and the FK team have transformed that business.

 

[carlberry]

Further update : all the services newly registered by FK yesterday are showing as wholly or partly supported. Suggests that PCB has chucked in the towel on these routes.

Or somebody ticked the wrong box, I cant see Cornwall CC suddenly deciding that they'll hack about with a long planned 8 year contract.

 

[Goldfish62]

Or somebody ticked the wrong box, I cant see Cornwall CC suddenly deciding that they'll hack about with a long planned 8 year contract.

My question would then be why FK have registered services that they previously applied to vary? This is not some predatory commercial venture as that does not satisfy the criteria for granting short notice registrations and would be rejected by the TC.

 

[MB162435]

I fully expect that the upcoming changes will be a disaster (at least according to a few local newspapers, illustrated with pictures of old age pensioners standing in front of bus stops **) with everybody involved blaming everybody else (County Council, Go, First, the government, Brexit, the millennium bug etc).

Within a couple of weeks of the change the rough edges will have been dealt with and it'll all be working smoothly again (as smoothly as it does normally!) and the only time it'll be mentioned will be a couple of stories in the summer about how the improved bus service in (insert local traffic hotspot) is causing congestion because they're meeting more caravan owners that cant reverse.

In a couple of years time everybody will be up in arms because the tendering round will happen again and everybody will refer to the previous disaster, via reprinted newspaper headlines, pointing out how it also caused flooding and the spread of a new virus.


** - there really should be an investigation into the effect on pensioners of being repeatedly asked to come out of their nice warm homes so they can stand around in front of a bus stop looking cold/angry, or is there an agency that supplies them?

It's the same with Rail franchises, the first few weeks and months are generally chaos with shortage of trains and crews, for what has been offered in the deal look at Northern Rail and ScotRail

First although looking pretty smug now in Cornwall with healthy rail and bus operations, it has taken them years to get their Cornwall and its South West divisions sorted.

The Great Western franchise was a near disaster when they took over with them being quite close to losing it, with them barely having any trains to run and a Skelton crew. We all know how long it's taken to turn the bus business around in Cornwall, with First wondering if there was any point with an elderly bus fleet and not many self- profitable routes. We couldn't support Kernow in 2005 or 2010 like we do now

So although GCB may not look to good now, let's give them time and see how they fair in the next 8 years. If in 2028 they still look bad, then maybe they should only have a few CC routes to look after or maybe none at all?

Who knows what the future will bring, maybe they might have the GWR franchise by then too?

 

[DaveHarries]

Further update : all the services newly registered by FK yesterday are showing as wholly or partly supported. Suggests that PCB has chucked in the towel on these routes.

It will be interesting to see but the timetables for the PCB / GCB journeys are all on Traveline SW.

Dave

 

[carlberry]

It will be interesting to see but the timetables for the PCB / GCB journeys are all on Traveline SW.

Dave

The ones that are on there will be the first attempt, it's highly lightly they'll change as faults are pointed out. The printed version should be more believable.

 

[Goldfish62]

It will be interesting to see but the timetables for the PCB / GCB journeys are all on Traveline SW.

Dave

Traveline merely upload the timetables as registered. They often get superceded.

There are still some gaps. The early morning journeys on the A1 have yet to appear, for example.

 

[richw]

The contract is for eight years. Is there a break clause after two years then?

You forgot to mention Coronavirus in that blame list.

Sorry, I couldnt find the contract length so 8 years. There will be a new virus along by then!

there’s a 4 year break clause

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Traveline merely upload the timetables as registered. They often get superceded.

There are still some gaps. The early morning journeys on the A1 have yet to appear, for example.

Indeed and on the PCB side as well. The Veryan - Tregony - St Austell service hasn't appeared so Veryan won't have a service nor the new Newquay to 'druth or Lostwithiel services either