• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

RELL6L

Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
986
Why would a school run be run with an open topper?
OK I agree the open-toppers are not (normally) going to do school runs. But the drivers who are going out on the open toppers at 9.00 or so can do a school run in another bus first.

I don't see why, then, the Atlantic Coaster cannot start a bit earlier.

I agree that going via Helford was probably a tad hopeful!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
1,623
Location
Nottinghamshire
So. Helston has its new routes starting soon. Looking at Traveling SW. The new timetable is up for the L3 and L5 but not the L1. Well not that I can see.

I'd love to know if the L1 will alternate Ruan minor now it is hourly, so to go in there on the way back from the Lizard? Surely travelers will want to go from Lizard to Cagwith? Seems like it would be the smart thing to do?

It's good to see they are running hourly Monday to Sunday on ALL routes too! It might persuade people to use them. Better ticketing and prices should come in though, I do feel that it maybe a bit steep compared to the competition.

From a publicity stand point, working with local businesses to promote etc, such as Paradise Park. 15% off entry to certain parks or places would maybe help get more people on the buses?

As a enthusiast, I do feel that it's a risk, but to entice people, good smart ticket ideas will help.
I think the lack of any form of simple multi operator ticketing is a big problem now that TfC are running so many services. I’ve got 7 nights booked in a hotel in Penzance, in early October, which means I will be travelling fairly widely around Cornwall for 6 days.

I will probably have an 8 Days in 15 railrover because I can use that as part of my return travel down from Nottingham by splitting tickets at Tiverton Parkway. That’s not bad value with a Senior Railcard. I will also have to get a 7 Day First Kernow Ticket as their day tickets are unbelievably expensive. The problem is would I also need a TfC 7 day ticket as even with their reasonably priced day tickets it works out cheaper if using their buses for more than 3 days.

If I didn’t bother with the rail rover a Ride Cornwall Ticket isn’t too bad but not if I had to pay for 6 days worth at a total of £108. I would certainly consider that if they did a 7 Day Ride Cornwall for around £60-£70. When I was in Cornwall about 4 years ago I could get a Ride Cornwall day ticket for only £8.90 with my railcard.

It is all very expensive and complicated if you want to travel for few a days without too much forward planning and studying of timetables to determine which operator you will be using. This will be important in October as the summer timetables will be ended. I thought some kind of joint ticketing was supposed to be in the plans.
 
Last edited:

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,629
Location
Elginshire
I'd like to remind everyone that if you are posting information about forthcoming service changes, it's required that you provide a link to and a quote from your source. If it's a source that isn't intended for public consumption, you should indicate that this is the case, but that you are not able to say any more. If your source is "on the grapevine", say so. It avoids the need for people to ask where your information came from.

Secondly, we do ask that you use correct spelling and grammar in your posts (this includes using capital letters where appropriate). I appreciate that typing errors can happen, especially on mobile devices, but you should review what you've written before you hit the post button.

Finally, as always, please keep your posts civil.

If anyone is unsure of the guidelines, you will find a link to our forum rules here:
 

83G/84D

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2011
Messages
5,962
Location
Cornwall
There is an open top in Camborne with registration plate covered over and a lime green rear. I couldn't see any more because of buses parked in the way and I was going out. I will take a look again tomorrow.
 

swifty

Established Member
Joined
19 Sep 2012
Messages
1,672
Last edited:

jcrwey

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2016
Messages
22
I've seen it happen in Reading! :lol: Then again, their Open Topper seems to crop up on various different routes throughout the year - the 18 being the most popular.
Prior to this week, First Wessex have been operating closed school journeys on the S1 between Weymouth and Portland. The bus used comes off the 502 holiday park route. This week it seems the open topper has been substituted for a closed top decker or saloon for the afternoon school journey and remaining 502 trips.
 

richw

Veteran Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
11,241
Location
Liskeard
Typical mess up there, not alternating the Ruan Minor stop. I'm sure people / holiday makers will want to return from the Lizard to Ruan! Terrible planning.
Looks to be a good connection of the two directions in Mullion.
Travel Lizard to Mullion and then swap buses back towards Ruan and Lizard
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,059
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Looks to be a good connection of the two directions in Mullion.
Travel Lizard to Mullion and then swap buses back towards Ruan and Lizard
Looks like that. Also, were it to be a straight there and back, it's very tight with little recovery time so wouldn't be confident of it keeping to time so seems like a sensible way of working
 

On the Buses

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2019
Messages
561
Location
UK
I have been looking at the long awaited timetables for the summer services. They look quite exciting but a few caveats.

First the D services centred on the Eden Project. A great idea and they do have Cheltenham style arrivals and departures at 10.30 and 14.30. Seven routes in (D1-5, D8,D9) with a second D5 from St Austell one hour earlier. Then eight routes out, D1 and D5-D11, to a great selection of places: Newquay, Mevagissey, Lost Gardens of Heligan, Charlestown, Fowey, Polperro, Lanhydrock and Padstow. They give a reasonable amount of time in some places but only about 2 hours or so in Newquay, Polperro and Padstow. I'm not sure this is enough, I think if I visited one of these places for a day trip, being there at lunchtime, I would want a bit longer for a wander round and some lunch. Especially Polperro where it takes some time to walk down to the village, you will struggle to get time to eat anything and be back for the bus at 13.30. I totally get it that the buses have to be back for the college services and this is a major constraint in the afternoon but I do think a later departure would be better. Perhaps once the college has finished the afternoon times will be pushed back an hour or two. The other point is that there is only 5-10 minutes connection time at the Eden Project. What if one bus in (or back) is late - are they going to hold all the others? For how long? And what if one breaks down?

Then the Coasters. The Lands End one looks pretty good and similar to recent years. I think eight buses are required of which five are out by 09.00, the others maybe can be used for schools in the morning, but not in the afternoon. A bit disappointed with the timetable for the Atlantic Coaster though. The service doesn't start very early, no buses start until 09.25 and the first departure from Padstow isn't until 11.20! Particularly surprising is that the first bus from Newquay heading west isn't until 10.45, I am sure it was an hour earlier on the A4 in the past. I also expected an hourly service to Hayle Towans as in the past. While no buses are out in the morning peak there are five on the road at 15.30 so additional resources are needed for afternoon school journeys. Again maybe there will be more in the main holiday season. I don't know how Cornwall think about such matters but I would be surprised if they proposed cutting the TfC 56 at all between Newquay and Padstow, while the Atlantic Coaster has six journeys it does not provide a comprehensive daytime service.

We don't know everything about the Lizard yet but the hourly L5 service from St Ives to Helston looks interesting and the different routings is clever. I am not sure the L3 Truro route warrants an hourly service given there is also the TfC service 36 but I understand the resources are there. And the L1 is still unknown, again I would be surprised if it provides a sufficiently comprehensive service to withdraw or reduce the TfC 34. The L2 remains unknown, presumably going to Coverack and that area. It would be great if at least one journey each way was able to follow part of the 33 route and include Helford!

Also we have the Dartmoor Explorer. Definitely fancy using this one. On the current timetable it is very much an 'excursion' with just an hour in Moretonhampstead or Tavistock, and it starts later than I would have expected, 10.00 from each end seems late. Shame it doesn't provide any connections in Moretonhampstead with the infrequent services from Newton Abbot or Okehampton. Again I think we are expecting more in the summer.

Really hope we have good weather and the great British stay-at-home summer is a success and these services do well!
I do wonder what some people are expecting this year. There does seem to be a real belief that if a bus operator puts an open top bus out in any location at any time of the day, it will be swarmed. The new products introduced are in the main projects we have been working on for a couple of years now but were unable to introduce last season.

All the new ones are careful introductions that test the market and the offer without silly financial risk. They are also all aimed at trying to secure a growing long term product, not aimed at the supposed overwhelming, Midas touching staycation frenzy.

And then on the Land’s End Coaster we know the market fully. The reason why we don’t operate earlier is because there’s no demand - the demand that would make the money to pay the costs!

On the Atlantic Coaster we’ve significantly increased the resource - and I’d suggest that comparing the 2019 timetable for the A4/5 against this one would be an easy starting point for anyone wanting to make a factually based comparison.

Here the challenge is to cover off the multiple flows in the morning without using additional PVR just to run a single journey. We manage to run Morning journeys at the critical times for visitors coming out in every direction - the whole morning headway Newquay to Padstow, Hayle into St Ives, St Ives to Newquay and onwards - the balance is that Newquay to St Ives gets one a bit later - we know from experience and our factual data that there is very little trade out of Padstow in the am peak. By carefully stepping buses back across the 5 PVR timetable we then get mid day journeys to allow half days, and get the return journeys in the afternoon in the right places.

On Dartmoor again we’ve taken a very clear view of what the market actually is. We’re more bothered about being in a position to duplicate for this season rather than add more.

On the DayTripper network again we’re conscious of the time constraints but we’ll see how it goes and we’re not actually convinced people want huge amounts of time in end locations. Eden is not only the hub but likely to be the main draw itself for the journey straight in and then back out.
The connections are all supervised in Eden with synchronised arrivals and departures - contrary to the implied assumption.

While we’re being panned by some of the armchair expert enthusiast fraternity, we’re working closely with a whole range of significant professional organisations across the tourism and leisure sectors in Devon Somerset and Cornwall who are really positive about the beginnings of our regional ‘Adventures by Bus’ portfolio and how it will hopefully grow sustainably and commercially over the coming years

Looks like that. Also, were it to be a straight there and back, it's very tight with little recovery time so wouldn't be confident of it keeping to time so seems like a sensible way of working

Exactly. Those who understand the realities of planning will understand the relationship between the PVR deployed and the cost of that, against the choice of which revenue streams to target.
‘Terrible Planning’ = long and hard deliberation leading to the conclusion that for this initial season we should target the round trip ‘out for an open top ride’ market on the Lizard and the connections through Helston (in both directions). Helston has 5 legs all connecting in a hub and spoke formation - Truro, Lizard, St Ives, Penzance and Falmouth, offering visitors staying on the Lizard lots of choice for days out, and an easy connection through to the Lizard Open Top from a range of a visitor accommodation locations...
Terrible!!!!
 
Last edited:

teggers419

Member
Joined
18 Nov 2016
Messages
42
I do wonder what some people are expecting this year There does seem to be a real

Exactly. Those who understand the realities of planning will understand the relationship between the PVR deployed and the cost of that, against the choice of which revenue streams to target.
‘Terrible Planning’ = long and hard deliberation leading to the conclusion that for this initial season we should target the round trip ‘out for an open top ride’ market on the Lizard and the connections through Helston (in both directions). Helston has 5 legs all connecting in a hub and spoke formation - Truro, Lizard, St Ives, Penzance and Falmouth, offering visitors staying on the Lizard lots of choice for days out, and an easy connection through to the Lizard Open Top from a range of a visitor accommodation locations...
Terrible!!!!
I will repeat what I said on Twitter that the guys have worked their socks off to achieve THE BIGGEST single Timetable change possibly in the company history and just coming off a Covid pandemic. As a scheduler myself I know how time consuming this can be and to achieve this by making Helston a 5 service connection along with various other things like making St Ives work with such limited space, all the Eden services in and out within 5 minutes and thats before working out meal breaks , driver changeovers, vehicle fuelling and maintenance. The general public and most enthusiasts wouldn't understand and thats not being rude but the work is incredible. Just the Atlantic Coaster at 3hrs 40 mins throughout means that one driver cannot do it alone as the return trip will take him over his hours. Also interworking with Truro College workings can be a logistical nightmare so I have to say again I have the utmost respect to all concerned and I so hope it works favourably. Well done Guys
 

Westnat

Member
Joined
23 Mar 2015
Messages
144
I do wonder what some people are expecting this year. There does seem to be a real belief that if a bus operator puts an open top bus out in any location at any time of the day, it will be swarmed. The new products introduced are in the main projects we have been working on for a couple of years now but were unable to introduce last season.

All the new ones are careful introductions that test the market and the offer without silly financial risk. They are also all aimed at trying to secure a growing long term product, not aimed at the supposed overwhelming, Midas touching staycation frenzy.

And then on the Land’s End Coaster we know the market fully. The reason why we don’t operate earlier is because there’s no demand - the demand that would make the money to pay the costs!

On the Atlantic Coaster we’ve significantly increased the resource - and I’d suggest that comparing the 2019 timetable for the A4/5 against this one would be an easy starting point for anyone wanting to make a factually based comparison.

Here the challenge is to cover off the multiple flows in the morning without using additional PVR just to run a single journey. We manage to run Morning journeys at the critical times for visitors coming out in every direction - the whole morning headway Newquay to Padstow, Hayle into St Ives, St Ives to Newquay and onwards - the balance is that Newquay to St Ives gets one a bit later - we know from experience and our factual data that there is very little trade out of Padstow in the am peak. By carefully stepping buses back across the 5 PVR timetable we then get mid day journeys to allow half days, and get the return journeys in the afternoon in the right places.

On Dartmoor again we’ve taken a very clear view of what the market actually is. We’re more bothered about being in a position to duplicate for this season rather than add more.

On the DayTripper network again we’re conscious of the time constraints but we’ll see how it goes and we’re not actually convinced people want huge amounts of time in end locations. Eden is not only the hub but likely to be the main draw itself for the journey straight in and then back out.
The connections are all supervised in Eden with synchronised arrivals and departures - contrary to the implied assumption.

While we’re being panned by some of the armchair expert enthusiast fraternity, we’re working closely with a whole range of significant professional organisations across the tourism and leisure sectors in Devon Somerset and Cornwall who are really positive about the beginnings of our regional ‘Adventures by Bus’ portfolio and how it will hopefully grow sustainably and commercially over the coming years

Looks like that. Also, were it to be a straight there and back, it's very tight with little recovery time so wouldn't be confident of it keeping to time so seems like a sensible way of working

Exactly. Those who understand the realities of planning will understand the relationship between the PVR deployed and the cost of that, against the choice of which revenue streams to target.
‘Terrible Planning’ = long and hard deliberation leading to the conclusion that for this initial season we should target the round trip ‘out for an open top ride’ market on the Lizard and the connections through Helston (in both directions). Helston has 5 legs all connecting in a hub and spoke formation - Truro, Lizard, St Ives, Penzance and Falmouth, offering visitors staying on the Lizard lots of choice for days out, and an easy connection through to the Lizard Open Top from a range of a visitor accommodation locations...
Terrible!!!!
Well said! I think part of the problem is that those of us who are impressed with what you've put in place for this year, and the hard work involved, don't provide you with the positive feedback you deserve. We've booked a holiday in St Ives again this summer and the enhancements to the Lizard network, plus the vastly improved Atlantic Coaster service will give us many more travel options.
 

KendalKing

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2009
Messages
1,644
Location
North Lancs
I have the utmost respect to all concerned and I so hope it works favourably.
I as former Transport Manager, myself. Would like to second this.

First South West, same as other first group companies, are trying to encourage passengers back onto public transport, after this pandemic by introducing new or improved services.

I sincerely hope that the connections hubs, which #On the Buses, talks about works, as its one way of offering an improve service, to the public with-out increasing the PVR.
 

embers25

Established Member
Joined
16 Jul 2009
Messages
1,816
Given the current climate, Kernow and Dorset should be commended for being so innovative and trying to create desire (ironically). Look at all the stupid requests Tom at RTT gets on Twitter to realise just how clueless some enthusiast are and how unappreciated the efforts some go to can be. I will definitely be using the services as much as I can and as OTB says, ensuring available resource for duplicates is far more important currently or you destroy the desire faster than it is created. As an example last week train services were screwed up and people unable to get from St Erth to Penzance and so the St Ives spare bus was used and ran to Penzance with many happy Twitter comments.
Again well done Kernow and I wish you all success. I'm sure there may be some teething problems at the start that will be jumped on but they'll be nothing compared to the TfC disasters.
 

RELL6L

Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
986
I do wonder what some people are expecting this year. There does seem to be a real belief that if a bus operator puts an open top bus out in any location at any time of the day, it will be swarmed. The new products introduced are in the main projects we have been working on for a couple of years now but were unable to introduce last season.

All the new ones are careful introductions that test the market and the offer without silly financial risk. They are also all aimed at trying to secure a growing long term product, not aimed at the supposed overwhelming, Midas touching staycation frenzy.

And then on the Land’s End Coaster we know the market fully. The reason why we don’t operate earlier is because there’s no demand - the demand that would make the money to pay the costs!

On the Atlantic Coaster we’ve significantly increased the resource - and I’d suggest that comparing the 2019 timetable for the A4/5 against this one would be an easy starting point for anyone wanting to make a factually based comparison.

Here the challenge is to cover off the multiple flows in the morning without using additional PVR just to run a single journey. We manage to run Morning journeys at the critical times for visitors coming out in every direction - the whole morning headway Newquay to Padstow, Hayle into St Ives, St Ives to Newquay and onwards - the balance is that Newquay to St Ives gets one a bit later - we know from experience and our factual data that there is very little trade out of Padstow in the am peak. By carefully stepping buses back across the 5 PVR timetable we then get mid day journeys to allow half days, and get the return journeys in the afternoon in the right places.

On Dartmoor again we’ve taken a very clear view of what the market actually is. We’re more bothered about being in a position to duplicate for this season rather than add more.

On the DayTripper network again we’re conscious of the time constraints but we’ll see how it goes and we’re not actually convinced people want huge amounts of time in end locations. Eden is not only the hub but likely to be the main draw itself for the journey straight in and then back out.
The connections are all supervised in Eden with synchronised arrivals and departures - contrary to the implied assumption.

While we’re being panned by some of the armchair expert enthusiast fraternity, we’re working closely with a whole range of significant professional organisations across the tourism and leisure sectors in Devon Somerset and Cornwall who are really positive about the beginnings of our regional ‘Adventures by Bus’ portfolio and how it will hopefully grow sustainably and commercially over the coming years

Looks like that. Also, were it to be a straight there and back, it's very tight with little recovery time so wouldn't be confident of it keeping to time so seems like a sensible way of working

Exactly. Those who understand the realities of planning will understand the relationship between the PVR deployed and the cost of that, against the choice of which revenue streams to target.
‘Terrible Planning’ = long and hard deliberation leading to the conclusion that for this initial season we should target the round trip ‘out for an open top ride’ market on the Lizard and the connections through Helston (in both directions). Helston has 5 legs all connecting in a hub and spoke formation - Truro, Lizard, St Ives, Penzance and Falmouth, offering visitors staying on the Lizard lots of choice for days out, and an easy connection through to the Lizard Open Top from a range of a visitor accommodation locations...
Terrible!!!!
Really appreciate your considered and comprehensive response on my earlier post. I am very impressed by what you are venturing this year and really hope it attracts passengers. It is good to see an operator prepared to take some carefully considered commercial risks and find out what works and what doesn’t. I understand the financial and operational constraints you have to work under and in particular that the Day Tripper routes will only work during college terms if they can fit in with the timing of the college runs. My comments on the implications of that should please not be taken as criticism in any way. I am sure you will monitor and supervise what happens – as you say many people will use them just to visit the Eden Project for four hours or for three hours in Lanhydrock or the Lost Gardens of Heligan. I was merely speculating what would happen if the bus back from Polperro, for example, broke down and there were passengers connecting to three different buses home, given that they are needed soon afterwards for college runs.

I was certainly never suggesting anyone would want to go on an open top bus before 9am, it’s probably pretty cold most days and too early to be up and about! More that I was noting there would be more buses still in the depot during the morning peak than in the afternoon. You clearly have good detailed information about passenger flows on the Atlantic Coaster route and have kindly shared your analysis and application of that to maximise the effective use of resources. I accept I am a distant armchair commentator but am definitely not panning anyone. Quite the opposite, I am interested in how these will work out and, I as I said in my original post, wish them well and hope very much that the network succeeds.

Oh and I have now seen the L1 timetable and this is more complete and comprehensive than I was perhaps expecting. I wonder whether it is enough for Cornwall County Council to withdraw the subsidy from the TfC 34 covering the same route during the time it operates – potentially interesting legal territory!
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,059
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
First of all, it's fair to say that most people appreciate the time that @On the Buses takes to inform this forum and enthusiasts generally, even if he does like to indulge in a little "sport" from time to time. Most of us also recognise the huge strides that the management team at FSW have made over the years to transform the business from being one of First's basket cases.

I would say that the comments about the L1 were fairly ill-informed. To me, it seemed pretty obvious and sensible what First were doing in order to achieve a robust and deliverable timetable that meets the vast majority of customer needs. That they've created such a network and constructed it in that way is both skilful and sensible. However, as @On the Buses highlights, there seems to be some views be espoused, not just on this thread but on others (see Transdev posts re: Whitby), that the Covid position means that a rise in domestic holidays equals a sure fire hit for tourist services in a "build it and they will come" scenario. I'm sure bus operators would love it to be that straight-forward. As has been said, the coordination of those routes and times is difficult enough but to do so and make sure that they are robust (with an increase in domestic holiday traffic?) and allow driver breaks and changeovers is a skill in itself.

In defence of @RELL6L, his comments were more observations rather than outright criticism. It's worth noting that for most tourist orientated services, a start time past 0930 is more sensible as folks are usually still munching on their croissant/full English at 0900, and that's before we think of twirly passes. Many of these innovations are obviously built around schools, enabling services to be operated at marginal cost and minimising risk; I know that @RELL6L appreciates that and did allude to it. Allowing time for vehicles to complete those duties and then get positioned to start them, and get back on the return, is a clear constraint but it's the difference between being able to run something or not. It may reduce the that can be spent in a location but if it's an excursion and you're enjoying the scenery with chance for a coffee and a cake, then that's the deal. EDIT - I see he's just said much the same :D

I've agreed to disagree with @On the Buses before. It's fair to make comment but "terrible planning"? I hate to think exactly how much planning has actually gone into coming up with the ideas, planning, design and execution of all this, as well as working with the other stakeholders (councils, attractions, National Parks), and at a time when Business As Usual is far from usual. Not all of these innovations will succeed, possibly, but they're certainly giving it their best shot and balancing their ambition with managing risk. I really hope they pay off; I won't be able to get to sample the Cornish ones but hopefully, a breeze along the Exmoor coast will be an objective this summer.

I wonder what will replace them on the SCS contract, or whether the requirements there are being reduced?
Are they doing staff transport to a sofa factory?
 

Lizard1324

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2020
Messages
685
Location
Cornwall
Really appreciate your considered and comprehensive response on my earlier post. I am very impressed by what you are venturing this year and really hope it attracts passengers. It is good to see an operator prepared to take some carefully considered commercial risks and find out what works and what doesn’t. I understand the financial and operational constraints you have to work under and in particular that the Day Tripper routes will only work during college terms if they can fit in with the timing of the college runs. My comments on the implications of that should please not be taken as criticism in any way. I am sure you will monitor and supervise what happens – as you say many people will use them just to visit the Eden Project for four hours or for three hours in Lanhydrock or the Lost Gardens of Heligan. I was merely speculating what would happen if the bus back from Polperro, for example, broke down and there were passengers connecting to three different buses home, given that they are needed soon afterwards for college runs.

I was certainly never suggesting anyone would want to go on an open top bus before 9am, it’s probably pretty cold most days and too early to be up and about! More that I was noting there would be more buses still in the depot during the morning peak than in the afternoon. You clearly have good detailed information about passenger flows on the Atlantic Coaster route and have kindly shared your analysis and application of that to maximise the effective use of resources. I accept I am a distant armchair commentator but am definitely not panning anyone. Quite the opposite, I am interested in how these will work out and, I as I said in my original post, wish them well and hope very much that the network succeeds.

Oh and I have now seen the L1 timetable and this is more complete and comprehensive than I was perhaps expecting. I wonder whether it is enough for Cornwall County Council to withdraw the subsidy from the TfC 34 covering the same route during the time it operates – potentially interesting legal territory!

I can see the council dropping funding for the 34 for the times the L1 runs.
Then the 34 could run from 7pm when the L1 ends or the council could just pay for it to run later, like the U4.
 

Smethwickian

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2011
Messages
669
Location
Errr, Smethwick!
I welcome any improvement in bus services, anywhere, after they've taken such a battering in recent months. Initiatives aimed at getting tourists out of their cars are to be applauded.
However, I don't wish to appear churlish, but advertising them might help, particularly to visitors who might wish to plan in advance or be reassured that services might meet their needs. Yet many of these exciting services mentioned above, in Cornwall and Somerset begin (as far as I can make out) in just a couple of weeks time, but I cannot find a single word about them on First's website. If there's something there, it's well hidden and has eluded me thus far.
And Googling 'Cornwall bus times' as perhaps a non-enthusiast ordinary potential passenger might, sadly brings up TfC's non-coordinated network as the first (not First) option.
Also, does the Eden Project know these new bus routes are coming, as again, there's not a word on its website.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,111
I can see the council dropping funding for the 34 for the times the L1 runs.
Then the 34 could run from 7pm when the L1 ends or the council could just pay for it to run later, like the U4.
We oughtn't to forget the elections for Cornwall Council taking place next Thursday, for which 'no change' in the political landscape is an impossibility for the very simple reason that all wards have been changed in pursuit of the objective to slim down the number of councillors. Whichever party/coalition takes control it cannot replicate the current arrangements and 'new brooms' are always anxious to be seen to be doing something, even if it proves to be inept and costly. There is no reason for thinking that everything relating to buses will remain pickled in aspic, and there may well be calls from local businesses and residents to keep some of FK's proposed programme for the summer continuing into the autumn and maybe beyond with agreed contributions from the public purse. If this were to happen, the idea that Go Cornwall could be invited to take the place of FK as the operator in a behind-the-scenes deal would, I am sure, invite the sort of public scrutiny that (so far) the Council has been very fortunate to escape.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,059
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I welcome any improvement in bus services, anywhere, after they've taken such a battering in recent months. Initiatives aimed at getting tourists out of their cars are to be applauded.
However, I don't wish to appear churlish, but advertising them might help, particularly to visitors who might wish to plan in advance or be reassured that services might meet their needs. Yet many of these exciting services mentioned above, in Cornwall and Somerset begin (as far as I can make out) in just a couple of weeks time, but I cannot find a single word about them on First's website. If there's something there, it's well hidden and has eluded me thus far.
And Googling 'Cornwall bus times' as perhaps a non-enthusiast ordinary potential passenger might, sadly brings up TfC's non-coordinated network as the first (not First) option.
Also, does the Eden Project know these new bus routes are coming, as again, there's not a word on its website.
Really?

They have spent no small amount of time in planning these commercial initiatives. Working out schedules, working with various tourist organisations and stakeholders, designing new liveries, obtaining additional vehicles from a range of sources, putting them through paintshops locally and in Essex.... and you wonder if they might not have mentioned this to the Eden Project that acts a central hub for the D network? :rolleyes:

As is often the case, there is a balance to be struck in when you release the publicity and even more so when the government are reviewing the state of Covid regulations. Not only that, they are also having a dedicated website for these tourist services. Given how good FSW are with publicity, I'd suspect there is no danger that these will not be well publicised.

I can see the council dropping funding for the 34 for the times the L1 runs.
Then the 34 could run from 7pm when the L1 ends or the council could just pay for it to run later, like the U4.
So what happens to the contract with TfC, and what happens to the driver who works the morning journeys? Is his supposed to go home, have a sleep and then come back and work in the evening for the same money?

And what happens at the end of the summer season when the L1 finishes? You'd reinstate the tender and then cut the evening journeys?
 

On the Buses

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2019
Messages
561
Location
UK
I welcome any improvement in bus services, anywhere, after they've taken such a battering in recent months. Initiatives aimed at getting tourists out of their cars are to be applauded.
However, I don't wish to appear churlish, but advertising them might help, particularly to visitors who might wish to plan in advance or be reassured that services might meet their needs. Yet many of these exciting services mentioned above, in Cornwall and Somerset begin (as far as I can make out) in just a couple of weeks time, but I cannot find a single word about them on First's website. If there's something there, it's well hidden and has eluded me thus far.
And Googling 'Cornwall bus times' as perhaps a non-enthusiast ordinary potential passenger might, sadly brings up TfC's non-coordinated network as the first (not First) option.
Also, does the Eden Project know these new bus routes are coming, as again, there's not a word on its website.
That’s very deliberate.
While they’re on Traveline, they are still entirely dependent upon the easing of Covid restrictions. These are leisure routes and we’re happy to have a very soft introduction. The new website will go live just before they start quite deliberately.
Print and web content is ready to go but we’ll wait until we have certainty on restrictions being lifted
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,107
So what happens to the contract with TfC, and what happens to the driver who works the morning journeys? Is his supposed to go home, have a sleep and then come back and work in the evening for the same money?

And what happens at the end of the summer season when the L1 finishes? You'd reinstate the tender and then cut the evening journeys?
The council would negotiate a contract variation with the operator. That's what happens everywhere else.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,059
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
The council would negotiate a contract variation with the operator. That's what happens everywhere else.
No - how does it work commercially?

It's not a case of similar using the savings to support the reintroduction of evening journeys as the money "saved" won't be anywhere near the additional cost (as you'll need 2 drivers not 1) and what then happens when the L1 service ends.... do you then withdraw the evening services?
 

Goldfish62

Established Member
Joined
14 Feb 2010
Messages
10,107
No - how does it work commercially?

It's not a case of similar using the savings to support the reintroduction of evening journeys as the money "saved" won't be anywhere near the additional cost (as you'll need 2 drivers not 1) and what then happens when the L1 service ends.... do you then withdraw the evening services?
I'm not following you at all. It's normal practice to negotiate contract price changes when there's a need to change a supported service timetable. I know that because I've done it!

The nuances of the impact on duties etc will affect cost changes yes, but irrelevant to the fact that contracts are routinely varied.

I don't get your point about the evening service. The L1 isn't running in the evenings.
 

Top