First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[heathrowrail]

Yeah - it's not one of the best! I really like the Mousehole livery when first released but that hasn't weathered well.

BusKernow livery was my favourite and should have been used to relaunch Western National maybe as just "Western". Shame it didn't last long.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

BusKernow livery was my favourite and should have been used to relaunch Western National maybe as just "Western". Shame it didn't last long.

I didn't like that one. I thought it a bit fussy and prefer the more vibrant green Kernow livery but it's all personal taste.

 

[richw]

passed a Uni Blue E400MMC on the Innis Downs flyover on the 890 to Truro College.

33301. It’s been allocated on the 890 for probably 2 weeks or more now, which means it’s outstationed at Callington. It covered last Saturday on Dartmoor Explorer too as the only working decker that was available in Callington that morning!

 

[fgwrich]

I didn't like that one. I thought it a bit fussy and prefer the more vibrant green Kernow livery but it's all personal taste.

Likewise, but with the version with the triangles. I really do like the two tone liveries of the Kernow era, but there does seem to be an amount of fussiness creeping in - Triangles switched to (rather cheaper) looking Waves, various pictograms for different coasters etc. Stick to the wonderful two tone / small triangles and it’ll look fine and consistent!

 

[Goldfish62]

Likewise, but with the version with the triangles. I really do like the two tone liveries of the Kernow era, but there does seem to be an amount of fussiness creeping in - Triangles switched to (rather cheaper) looking Waves, various pictograms for different coasters etc. Stick to the wonderful two tone / small triangles and it’ll look fine and consistent!

I agree.

The original Kernow, Mousehole, Coasters, Tinner and U lines brands gave a smart unified family look and were just about manageable in terms of keeping branded buses on the right routes.

Much of that has largely gone out of the window now, exacerbated by a sizeable part of the fleet having been repainted but not having any branding applied.

 

[fgwrich]

I agree.

The original Kernow, Mousehole, Coasters, Tinner and U lines brands gave a smart unified family look and were just about manageable in terms of keeping branded buses on the right routes.

Much of that has largely gone out of the window now, exacerbated by a sizeable part of the fleet having been repainted but not having any branding applied.

I really think what hasn’t helped is adding in brands such as Sunseeker, Day Tripper and UniQue. Even the smart Copper livery, with its Reading Buses style swooshes, sticks out a little.

 

[83G/84D]

Copper and Dartmoor Explorer are my favourites although I don’t get to see he latter very often.

Coaster livery is improved with the rear of the buses done.

 

[henairs]

Copper and Dartmoor Explorer are my favourites although I don’t get to see he latter very often.

Coaster livery is improved with the rear of the buses done.

Interesting to read all the comments regards colour schemes.
What struck me straight away was somebody‘s done alright moneywise from coming up with all of this carnival of colour when the customer/passenger or whatever we’re all now known as are really happy with any bus turning up reasonably on time to take us from A to B.
Ask around the normal population and surprise,surprise it will be top of most folks wish list.
Seems like the consultants who advocate all these must have colour schemes have a deeper let’s make me money outlook on this and precious little with day to day running of a reliable service.
Keep it simple is fine for 98% of the travelling population.

 

[embers25]

Interesting to read all the comments regards colour schemes.
What struck me straight away was somebody‘s done alright moneywise from coming up with all of this carnival of colour when the customer/passenger or whatever we’re all now known as are really happy with any bus turning up reasonably on time to take us from A to B.
Ask around the normal population and surprise,surprise it will be top of most folks wish list.
Seems like the consultants who advocate all these must have colour schemes have a deeper let’s make me money outlook on this and precious little with day to day running of a reliable service.
Keep it simple is fine for 98% of the travelling population.

I'd argue a bus off branded route still acts as advertising for it's usual route. I've seen a Falmouth U route branded decker on the Dartmoor Explorer in Exeter (it often parks up by the coach stop next to the student accommodation), and heard local students comment about the bus 'being useful when they move to Exeter Uni Falmouth campus next year' and so branding can be a very powerful tool, even when off route. If you go to Penzance on holiday, seeing all different colour buses and liveries makes you wonder where you could go and what fun places you could see as someone is clearly making an effort to promote them. At that point of sight (often right after you leave the train or coach on arrival) you don't care about what route it's on, just that it's a potential day out option to explore later.

If you ever doubt the power of branding, think Cross Country Trains who most people still refer too as Virgin..which I'm sure Virgin are not thrilled about although being associated still with Avanti would be worse right now lol.

 

[M803UYA]

I'd argue a bus off branded route still acts as advertising for it's usual route. I've seen a Falmouth U route branded decker on the Dartmoor Explorer in Exeter (it often parks up by the coach stop next to the student accommodation), and heard local students comment about the bus 'being useful when they move to Exeter Uni Falmouth campus next year' and so branding can be a very powerful tool, even when off route. If you go to Penzance on holiday, seeing all different colour buses and liveries makes you wonder where you could go and what fun places you could see as someone is clearly making an effort to promote them. At that point of sight (often right after you leave the train or coach on arrival) you don't care about what route it's on, just that it's a potential day out option to explore later.

If you ever doubt the power of branding, think Cross Country Trains who most people still refer too as Virgin..which I'm sure Virgin are not thrilled about although being associated still with Avanti would be worse right now lol.

Branding has been proven to increase passenger numbers. Look at Yorkshire Coastliner as the most obvious example to illustrate the awareness and success of branding a service. From my own experiences, Stagecoach in East Kent did this with a number of services in the mid 2000s and doubled passenger journeys. Service awareness was such that people didn't take the 49/52 in Thanet, they took 'The Loop'. Or the 4/6 between Canterbury, Herne Bay and Whitstable - they took 'The Triangle'

There are a few well known principles to be adopted when you brand services. Ensuring those vehicles do not work other routes is one of them. That requires not all of the required buses for the route to be branded, sensible vehicle availability and the willingness of operational staff to allocate buses correctly. Going a little further back, Transit Holdings were one of the first companies to use branding widely to promote their services. They ensured correct allocation of vehicles by restricting them through having the required destinations on the blinds for the route the bus was branded for, and 'Sorry I'm not in Service' as the alternate destination. Within the depot would be a number of unbranded vehicles which could display all the destinations of the depot, and in this way it worked well. You could do this with LED destination screens but you'd need specific files for the routes in question and need to upload to specific buses.

You can have corridor branding - like Go South Coast practices in Bournemouth and Poole. So the strapline on the vehicle alludes to the area it is serving, but allows controllers/supervisors room to allocate vehicles a little more freely. It is this operation where First South West's senior management team learned these principles and this is what they've applied with great success here. Go back 10 years to when they took over and the company had lost it's way and was the retirement home for First's buses. The transformation to what the company is today is something to be proud of - especially as it's been done under the radar without much public fanfare.

 

[Busaholic]

I'd argue a bus off branded route still acts as advertising for it's usual route. I've seen a Falmouth U route branded decker on the Dartmoor Explorer in Exeter (it often parks up by the coach stop next to the student accommodation), and heard local students comment about the bus 'being useful when they move to Exeter Uni Falmouth campus next year' and so branding can be a very powerful tool, even when off route. If you go to Penzance on holiday, seeing all different colour buses and liveries makes you wonder where you could go and what fun places you could see as someone is clearly making an effort to promote them. At that point of sight (often right after you leave the train or coach on arrival) you don't care about what route it's on, just that it's a potential day out option to explore later.

If you ever doubt the power of branding, think Cross Country Trains who most people still refer too as Virgin..which I'm sure Virgin are not thrilled about although being associated still with Avanti would be worse right now lol.

OK, the case of Exeter University having a campus at Falmouth might be a happy coincidence in the case you cite, but it's not a strong argument for the wrong branding being frequently if not continually seen in operation in non-emergency situations. At the very least, it's naff, at the worst, it could be said to show a disregard for the travelling public at some level in the company concerned, even though most of us here may well know it's more likely to be a case of 'keeping the show on the road' by engineers and fitters.

TfL in recent years have not been keen to own up for significant errors in their thinking, but the route branding that took place as an experiment in areas like Ilford were fairly quickly acknowledged as a public relations failure and not rolled out further afield.

 

[richw]

I've seen a Falmouth U route branded decker on the Dartmoor Explorer in Exeter (it often parks up by the coach stop next to the student accommodation), and heard local students comment about the bus 'being useful when they move to Exeter Uni Falmouth campus next year' and so branding can be a very powerful tool, even when off route

That would have been last Saturday. The first and only time a U branded e400mmc has done Dartmoor.
There are a few photos in circulation on the usual Facebook groups, as it was picked up by a few Exeter enthusiasts who came out to photo the unusual working.
Saturdays will often see an E400mmc appear, due to being the vehicles currently based at Plymouth.
The weekday working is normally 37155 which works out of Bodmin depot on a Duchy College service before going out on Dartmoor.

Edit- apologies I forgot the 08 plate E400 turn up for Exeter based workings. Are these still branded for Falmouth?

 

[vla50]

That would have been last Saturday. The first and only time a U branded e400mmc has done Dartmoor.
There are a few photos in circulation on the usual Facebook groups, as it was picked up by a few Exeter enthusiasts who came out to photo the unusual working.
Saturdays will often see an E400mmc appear, due to being the vehicles currently based at Plymouth.
The weekday working is normally 37155 which works out of Bodmin depot on a Duchy College service before going out on Dartmoor.

If you don’t mind me asking in relation to Dartmoor- is there a reason why 33422 has been based in Exeter working services & Dartmoor more notably? Will this transfer to BOS at some point?

 

[richw]

If you don’t mind me asking in relation to Dartmoor- is there a reason why 33422 has been based in Exeter working services & Dartmoor more notably? Will this transfer to BOS at some point?

Exeter vehicles are allocated from Taunton and managed by BoS now, so it will be a BoS vehicle if working from Exeter

 

[Snozzel]

The recent allocations of branded buses have been a mess for whatever reason. Also the bus types allocated have been very messed up too, especially on the t1/2. It has had Scania single decks and small Solos on its routes. The 27 had Eden P&R white double door Enviro the other day.

 

[Goldfish62]

The recent allocations of branded buses have been a mess for whatever reason. Also the bus types allocated have been very messed up too, especially on the t1/2. It has had Scania single decks and small Solos on its routes. The 27 had Eden P&R white double door Enviro the other day.

It's a pity the T1/T2 corridor has been watered down so much in terms of vehicle allocation, but maybe post-Covid its previous status as a premium route is no longer considered so important.

 

[-Colly405-]

Branding has been proven to increase passenger numbers. Look at Yorkshire Coastliner as the most obvious example to illustrate the awareness and success of branding a service. From my own experiences, Stagecoach in East Kent did this with a number of services in the mid 2000s and doubled passenger journeys. Service awareness was such that people didn't take the 49/52 in Thanet, they took 'The Loop'. Or the 4/6 between Canterbury, Herne Bay and Whitstable - they took 'The Triangle'

There are a few well known principles to be adopted when you brand services. Ensuring those vehicles do not work other routes is one of them. That requires not all of the required buses for the route to be branded, sensible vehicle availability and the willingness of operational staff to allocate buses correctly. Going a little further back, Transit Holdings were one of the first companies to use branding widely to promote their services. They ensured correct allocation of vehicles by restricting them through having the required destinations on the blinds for the route the bus was branded for, and 'Sorry I'm not in Service' as the alternate destination. Within the depot would be a number of unbranded vehicles which could display all the destinations of the depot, and in this way it worked well. You could do this with LED destination screens but you'd need specific files for the routes in question and need to upload to specific buses.

You can have corridor branding - like Go South Coast practices in Bournemouth and Poole. So the strapline on the vehicle alludes to the area it is serving, but allows controllers/supervisors room to allocate vehicles a little more freely. It is this operation where First South West's senior management team learned these principles and this is what they've applied with great success here. Go back 10 years to when they took over and the company had lost it's way and was the retirement home for First's buses. The transformation to what the company is today is something to be proud of - especially as it's been done under the radar without much public fanfare.

Even corridor branding is also fraught with problems though. Take two of the Bristol area corridors - Citylines East (6, 7, 17, 42, 43, 44, 45) and South Glos Lynx (T1, Y1, Y6). First have just brought in two extra peak journeys on the T1, but they are operated with Citylines East vehicles, as they both go on to 17s once they arrive in town. So the northern Bristol suburbs now have regular journeys operated with East vehicles.

The more I see of it, the less I like route or corridor branding. Local liveries, yes, but not this mess.

 

[heathrowrail]

Even corridor branding is also fraught with problems though. Take two of the Bristol area corridors - Citylines East (6, 7, 17, 42, 43, 44, 45) and South Glos Lynx (T1, Y1, Y6). First have just brought in two extra peak journeys on the T1, but they are operated with Citylines East vehicles, as they both go on to 17s once they arrive in town. So the northern Bristol suburbs now have regular journeys operated with East vehicles.

The more I see of it, the less I like route or corridor branding. Local liveries, yes, but not this mess.

The Citylines branding in Bristol is pretty much dead to be honest. Citylines 5 axed, 3 & 4's have either been debranded or moved on. Cityliens Blues are in a state. It seems First don't know what to do in Bristol, In my opinion everything should just move to Badgerline branding.

 

[83G/84D]

It's a pity the T1/T2 corridor has been watered down so much in terms of vehicle allocation, but maybe post-Covid its previous status as a premium route is no longer considered so important.

It seems that Tinner vehicles now work more widely than previously and on a regular basis. I wonder if the workings have changed because as well as regular trips to Truro College (which has been the case for some time) they now end up on a variety of other routes and they can turn up on virtually anything that can accommodate a decker.

 

[Goldfish62]

It seems that Tinner vehicles now work more widely than previously and on a regular basis. I wonder if the workings have changed because as well as regular trips to Truro College (which has been the case for some time) they now end up on a variety of other routes and they can turn up on virtually anything that can accommodate a decker.

It's a shame because the routes have been branded for many years and generally had the pick of the crop in terms of vehicles.

 

[83G/84D]

It's a shame because the routes have been branded for many years and generally had the pick of the crop in terms of vehicles.

Agree, plus timekeeping on the route seems to be particularly poor this year with regular bunching of buses. A lot of the time it's factors beyond the control of the bus company but that's not much consolation to people using them especially people heading to appointments at Treliske Hospital and work.




similar

 

[GBM]

Agree, plus timekeeping on the route seems to be particularly poor this year with regular bunching of buses. A lot of the time it's factors beyond the control of the bus company but that's not much consolation to people using them especially people heading to appointments at Treliske Hospital and work.




similar

It's no consolation to bus drivers either. Other than being told by control to skip stops to make up time (they won't do!) there is nothing a driver can do about it.
In doing so there is invariably the question "Are you the late running xxxx or running early?". That slows passenger footfall each time, thus delaying you even more. Meanwhile the following driver is having an easier run because the one in front is picking up all his passengers! If the one behind passes and goes ahead, he will then run early, which is a massive no-no with First.

 

[-Colly405-]

The Citylines branding in Bristol is pretty much dead to be honest. Citylines 5 axed, 3 & 4's have either been debranded or moved on. Cityliens Blues are in a state. It seems First don't know what to do in Bristol, In my opinion everything should just move to Badgerline branding.

And the 48/48A/49 (and others) never got to be a Citylines!
Why not just rebrand all the city services as one single Citylines brand, and all the country ones Badgerline. There, back to the future!

 

[henairs]

And the 48/48A/49 (and others) never got to be a Citylines!
Why not just rebrand all the city services as one single Citylines brand, and all the country ones Badgerline. There, back to the future!

Quite agree, keep it simple and everybody knows where they are. Enthusiasts may get a thrill over so many differing livery’s but keeping it simple is better for the general public.
Always was country badger livery, urban badger then City-lines livery. All very neat and orderly.

 

[Goldfish62]

Quite agree, keep it simple and everybody knows where they are. Enthusiasts may get a thrill over so many differing livery’s but keeping it simple is better for the general public.
Always was country badger livery, urban badger then City-lines livery. All very neat and orderly.

It's clearly not working in Cornwall. It's getting worse in fact. PVRs are too small and allocations are not fixed due to buses having to move around for maintenance.

Paint all closed top double decks in fleet green and restrict branding to destination displays and publicity (Inc generic stuff on internal panelling).

Job done!

 

[GusB]

Could we keep this thread for discussing First South West issues? There is a separate thread for West of England discussion. Thanks.

 

[richw]

Following on from recent industrial action, drivers have accepted the most recent offer by way of ballot, so draws the dispute to an end.

 

[83G/84D]

Partial open top AD Enviro 400 (32737) SN59 AVU seen in Camborne today in base Coaster colours.

Additionally (32739) SN59 AVX is in Somerset.

 

[Goldfish62]

Following on from recent industrial action, drivers have accepted the most recent offer by way of ballot, so draws the dispute to an end.

They have indeed. A good pragmatic deal with compromise on both sides it looks like.

 

[83G/84D]

Fleet numbers for the Islesbus I-City's due next year are reported as 54111- 54114, no registrations known yet.

Source:- British Bus Publishing 2023 First Bus Handbook.