First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[DaveHarries]

The BoS website did carry the details of which depot would operate which service but when I looked later the same day that info had gone. I can't access the VOSA Bus Registration search (it is "unavailable" again when I try and access it) but one thought might be that, where the town services are concerned, the 21/21A could be rerouted to cover Rhodes Lane / Wills Way (currently B2 served?) and the 75 to cover Sydenham Parkway which would at least provide some degree of replacement services.

I do wonder why that VOSA page keeps vanishing: it keeps saying that it is for "routine maintenance and improvements" but the page never looks any different when it reappears.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The BoS website did carry the details of which depot would operate which service but when I looked later the same day that info had gone. I can't access the VOSA Bus Registration search (it is "unavailable" again when I try and access it) but one thought might be that, where the town services are concerned, the 21/21A could be rerouted to cover Rhodes Lane / Wills Way (currently B2 served?) and the 75 to cover Sydenham Parkway which would at least provide some degree of replacement services.

I do wonder why that VOSA page keeps vanishing: it keeps saying that it is for "routine maintenance and improvements" but the page never looks any different when it reappears.

Dave

It's fairly easy to summarise though. Main route 21/21A and town service goes to Taunton, 14 is shared Taunton/Minehead (as Minehead already does part of it, IIRC), 75 to First West of England at Wells.

Remember my first visit to Bridgwater in 1991 and the Ford Transits busy around the town, 811s on the 21 (ugh!) and VRs/Nationals on schools with visits from Badgerline vehicles.

ps to @M803UYA - the future of the Yeovil site might be indicated by the recent development next door.

 

[DaveHarries]

It's fairly easy to summarise though. Main route 21/21A and town service goes to Taunton, 14 is shared Taunton/Minehead (as Minehead already does part of it, IIRC), 75 to First West of England at Wells.

I know MInehead do the 614/615 as a college route (Minehead - Bridgwater College) but I think the 21/21A are the only routes from Taunton to Bridgwater so how can Taunton do the remainder unless something interworks? The only way I could see that happening is if another route is working up from Taunton and terminating at Bridgwater: perhaps the northern half of the 21/21A will drop to hourly?.

Or am I missing something?

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I know MInehead do the 614/615 as a college route (Minehead - Bridgwater College) but I think the 21/21A are the only routes from Taunton to Bridgwater so how can Taunton do the remainder unless something interworks? The only way I could see that happening is if another route is working up from Taunton and terminating at Bridgwater: perhaps the northern half of the 21/21A will drop to hourly?.

Or am I missing something?

Dave

Could be that a Taunton driver goes up empty or it is worked around 623/625 workings?

 

[DaveHarries]

Could be that a Taunton driver goes up empty or it is worked around 623/625 workings?

Good point: I didn't think of that. Driver changes from Taunton done by sending the replacement driver on the 21/21A perhaps. I can't help wondering if the 14 is a council-supported service and whether Hatch Green might take an interest in it at the next retender: they have the 16 between Langport and Bridgwater and could tie it in with that.

Another option, of course, would be to extend the 14 back to Minehead every 2 hours and let them do it.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Good point: I didn't think of that. Driver changes from Taunton done by sending the replacement driver on the 21/21A perhaps. I can't help wondering if the 14 is a council-supported service and whether Hatch Green might take an interest in it at the next retender: they have the 16 between Langport and Bridgwater and could tie it in with that.

Another option, of course, would be to extend the 14 back to Minehead every 2 hours and let them do it.

Dave

With the 623/625 and Minehead driver, they can cover the B1 and 14 and incorporate breaks as well. Easy to do that than worry about the 21.

Think the 14 is largely commercial

 

[embers25]

With the 623/625 and Minehead driver, they can cover the B1 and 14 and incorporate breaks as well. Easy to do that than worry about the 21.

Think the 14 is largely commercial

I see one of the sunseeker open deck single decks is in Bridport and its had its windows put back in so that was a short lived experiment!

 

[Busaholic]

I see one of the sunseeker open deck single decks is in Bridport and its had its windows put back in so that was a short lived experiment!

Reality kicks in!

 

[M803UYA]

Think the 14 is largely commercial

It is - the section beyond Cannington to Williton was supported. So what's left is the commercial part. There's around 2/3 buses worth of work there adding in the B1 and the need for meal break cover. I guess you could design a timetable for the 14 which incorporated a meal break in the middle of the day but it'd make for a long day's work with an additional hour positioning from Taunton at the start/end of the day.

The B1 could have used these 'spare' Minehead buses in between college times to beef up the frequency but First have never done this, the double deckers simply sit idle in between. I notice the current version of the B1 timetable just serves Rhode Lane - Taunton Road - Sydenham and the Durleigh part which was B2 is now part of the 14 again. Previously the timetable didn't even co-ordinate the journeys to offer a 30 minute service over the common section. It wasn't too hard for me to devise a timetable which did just that....! No additional buses/drivers required, just an application of some common sense.

But no, we have an hourly town service that's impossible to use, and easier to withdraw through stated 'lack of use'. Well, if you miss a journey you're hardly going to sit around another hour for the next one? Sad to see when it could have been so much better. First managed to see off Webberbus who intended for them to close Bridgwater depot, running around 10 additional buses with their costs for a few years to achieve it but they've managed to close it themselves without outside help.

Bridgwater might be a small uneconomic depot, but that's down the choices First have made. It has a proud, small team of people working in it. There are historic tensions between Bridgwater, Taunton and Yeovil and Taunton has always been the dominant depot of the three, always having the best of the buses. I suspect most Bridgwater drivers won't transfer to Taunton to help the 'takeover'.

 

[Whiteway215]

It’s a very long time since I’ve been to Minehead.
Are there any maintenance staff/facilities? Cleaning and fueling?

 

[richw]

I see one of the sunseeker open deck single decks is in Bridport and its had its windows put back in so that was a short lived experiment!

It had Perspex fitted for the winter over the holes to keep it a bit dryer

 

[henryb]

Dartmoor Explorer running with a coach now

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bridgwater might be a small uneconomic depot, but that's down the choices First have made. It has a proud, small team of people working in it. There are historic tensions between Bridgwater, Taunton and Yeovil and Taunton has always been the dominant depot of the three, always having the best of the buses. I suspect most Bridgwater drivers won't transfer to Taunton to help the 'takeover'.

To be honest, most drivers don't relocate when the alternative is 15 miles away. TBF, I could see them saying stuff it and heading to Somerset Passenger Solutions.

Whilst Bridgwater may be uneconomic in its current state, an outstation in a compound would've made more sense rather than relocate to Taunton that is struggling to recruit/retain sufficient drivers

First managed to see off Webberbus who intended for them to close Bridgwater depot, running around 10 additional buses with their costs for a few years to achieve it but they've managed to close it themselves without outside help.

That bus war was always unsustainable. The greatest disappointment has been the decline of the local services as you say.

It’s a very long time since I’ve been to Minehead.
Are there any maintenance staff/facilities? Cleaning and fueling?

No maintenance undertaken though a vehicle bay does seem to exist. No fuelling or cleaning.

 

[richw]

To be honest, most drivers don't relocate when the alternative is 15 miles away. TBF, I could see them saying stuff it and heading to Somerset Passenger Solutions.

Sps advertised hourly rate is higher too. £14.27 at Sps versus £13.00 at BOS

Had Bridgwater been struggling for staffing? I wonder if that is a factor, staffing shortages due to uncompetitive hourly rate?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sps advertised hourly rate is higher too. £14.27 at Sps versus £13.00 at BOS

Had Bridgwater been struggling for staffing? I wonder if that is a factor, staffing shortages due to uncompetitive hourly rate?

Fair point

 

[M803UYA]

That bus war was always unsustainable. The greatest disappointment has been the decline of the local services as you say.

It became unsustainable, had Webberbus stuck to the 15/18 they'd probably still be around.

Sps advertised hourly rate is higher too. £14.27 at Sps versus £13.00 at BOS

SPS normally trains it's drivers from scratch rather than direct recruitment. They do recruit qualified drivers in a smaller number, but they are geared up to training car licence holders. Their shift patterns cause retention issues.

 

[SeveerYeliab]

Their shift patterns cause retention issues.

I was going to raise this exact issue, what are the shift patterns at SPS? I’d imagine lots of split shifts with long days, similar to school bus work? However, no weekends I presume ?

 

[richw]

Fair point

First (FSW) are considerably behind on hourly rates in Devon and Cornwall now with Stagecoach southwest (SCSW) and Go Ahead southwest (GSW) having agreed considerable pay rises in the last few weeks. FSW existing pay deal is in place until April 2024.
In the Bridgwater closure FSW are telling us their operational costs are well above revenue, so I can’t see how they will afford to match SCSW and GSW. Several drivers in Cornwall have jumped ship in recent weeks.

 

[Goldfish62]

I was going to raise this exact issue, what are the shift patterns at SPS? I’d imagine lots of split shifts with long days, similar to school bus work? However, no weekends I presume ?

Hinkley Point C is a 24/7 site.

I did find out the shift patterns a while back, but have forgotten the details. What I can recall is that they were either long dead earlies or lates. Not much chance of a social or family life.

 

[Peter Philips]

Dartmoor Explorer running with a coach now

There was a report of a Truronian Levante coach parked at Milehouse, was that used?

 

[Goldfish62]

First (FSW) are considerably behind on hourly rates in Devon and Cornwall now with Stagecoach southwest (SCSW) and Go Ahead southwest (GSW) having agreed considerable pay rises in the last few weeks. FSW existing pay deal is in place until April 2024.
In the Bridgwater closure FSW are telling us their operational costs are well above revenue, so I can’t see how they will afford to match SCSW and GSW. Several drivers in Cornwall have jumped ship in recent weeks.

I've just seen that GoCornwall is rising from £14.50 to £15.00ph from this coming weekend. That's a very competitive wage. Wonder how they're managing to fund that.

Kernow have been advertising on Facebook and Twitter that they need drivers in Cornwall, but clicking on the link takes you to the dreadful corporate First Careers site where, apparently, there are no Cornwall driver vacancies.

What's the current rate at FSW? £14.00ph isn't it? That's still better than Slough at £13.65ph (and where the cost of living is as high as Cornwall and driving conditions are essentially London), and Portsmouth at £12.00ph (plus £47 pw attendance bonus if you turn up and on time every day).

Talking of operating costs being above revenue, an article in the current issue of Buses highlights that for National Express West Midlands revenue stands at 93% of 2019, while operating costs are at 125%. And that's good bus territory!

 

[vla50]

Apparently 53826 has now been withdrawn…although with the Mousehole sprinters entering service imminently this isn’t too concerning.

I’ve heard rumours that one Solo will be held back in reserve as a spare (presumably for the 24, Mousehole and Callington services). Is this still happening or due to the woeful reliability of the aging Solos, will both the remaining Solos be withdrawn?

 

[Goldfish62]

Apparently 53826 has now been withdrawn…although with the Mousehole sprinters entering service imminently this isn’t too concerning.

I’ve heard rumours that one Solo will be held back in reserve as a spare (presumably for the 24, Mousehole and Callington services). Is this still happening or due to the woeful reliability of the aging Solos, will both the remaining Solos be withdrawn?

The immediate problem is that that leaves 2 buses for a PVR of 3. I see today there are 2 Geminis on the Mousehole. Not ideal for the start of the holidays, but at least the Sprinters are imminent.

Not sure why one of the Solos would be retained. I don't think there's been a single week so far this year where 3 have been continually available every day for the Mousehole. Maybe it's because the 4th Sprinter is running late and this needs covering for a short while.

 

[Peter Philips]

There was a report of a Truronian Levante coach parked at Milehouse, was that used?

UPDATE: Apparently the coach on Dartmoor Explorer is Plaxton Profile Volvo B7R 20324.

The drivers also now appear to no longer swap vehicles on their first trips but instead turn back with their vehicles at Moretonhampstead with through passengers transferring.

 

[vla50]

The immediate problem is that that leaves 2 buses for a PVR of 3. I see today there are 2 Geminis on the Mousehole. Not ideal for the start of the holidays, but at least the Sprinters are imminent.

Not sure why one of the Solos would be retained. I don't think there's been a single week so far this year where 3 have been continually available every day for the Mousehole. Maybe it's because the 4th Sprinter is running late and this needs covering for a short while.

There was a discussion about there being one kept in reserve although not sure on whether this is still the plan

 

[Busaholic]

The immediate problem is that that leaves 2 buses for a PVR of 3. I see today there are 2 Geminis on the Mousehole. Not ideal for the start of the holidays, but at least the Sprinters are imminent.

Not sure why one of the Solos would be retained. I don't think there's been a single week so far this year where 3 have been continually available every day for the Mousehole. Maybe it's because the 4th Sprinter is running late and this needs covering for a short while.

Saw a decker on the route this a.m.

 

[Summers510]

I've just seen that GoCornwall is rising from £14.50 to £15.00ph from this coming weekend. That's a very competitive wage. Wonder how they're managing to fund that.

Kernow have been advertising on Facebook and Twitter that they need drivers in Cornwall, but clicking on the link takes you to the dreadful corporate First Careers site where, apparently, there are no Cornwall driver vacancies.

What's the current rate at FSW? £14.00ph isn't it? That's still better than Slough at £13.65ph (and where the cost of living is as high as Cornwall and driving conditions are essentially London), and Portsmouth at £12.00ph (plus £47 pw attendance bonus if you turn up and on time every day).

Talking of operating costs being above revenue, an article in the current issue of Buses highlights that for National Express West Midlands revenue stands at 93% of 2019, while operating costs are at 125%. And that's good bus territory!

Its £13ph with £14ph overtime over 39 hours, so well behind everyone else

 

[Goldfish62]

Its £13ph with £14ph overtime over 39 hours, so well behind everyone else

That's quite a difference.

 

[richw]

Apparently 53826 has now been withdrawn…although with the Mousehole sprinters entering service imminently this isn’t too concerning.

It reportedly had a crash a few days back.

Let’s not get too excited about the Sprinters. Due to enter service 30th July, but apparently according to my reliable internal source are a metre longer than the demonstrator and don’t fit. Tail swing issues. The extra length is behind the rear wheel. The demo was a 20 seater if I remember correctly. These are 23 seaters.

 

[Goldfish62]

Let’s not get too excited about the Sprinters. Due to enter service 30th July, but apparently according to my reliable internal source are a metre longer than the demonstrator and don’t fit. Tail swing issues. The extra length is behind the rear wheel. The demo was a 20 seater if I remember correctly. These are 23 seaters.

According to the Ilesbus website it comes in two versions - 17 seater or 20 seater. There is no 23 seat version.

Remember though that the MB 811s were just over 8m long and had a huge tail swing (and wider that the Ilesbus Sprinters). It just needed different positioning to get around the corners with them.