First South Yorkshire and High Peak 272 Service

[simonk8270]

Below is a copy and paste of an email I have received being on First's mailing list. Not very good on the part of High Peak to change the conditions that have been in place for years. Hi Simon, We have been notified that High Peak will no longer accept First Day, Week or Month tickets on their service 272 from Saturday 31st May 2025. This means that anyone wishing to use the popular 272 service to visit the beautiful scenery of the Peak District with any of these tickets will only be able to do so on the First Bus 272 service. We will continue to operate hourly on Sundays and Bank Holidays. If you want to use the 272 service operated by both First Bus and High Peak, you will need to purchase a Derbyshire Wayfarer or a day return ticket, which will continue to be available from both bus operators. We will be monitoring the situation over the summer months to ensure our 272 journeys do not become overloaded, and we will look to add additional journeys if needed. If they mess around too much, and First put extra runs on, they could shoot themselves in the foot i guess.Is the Derbs Wayyfarer even valid to and from Sheffield? Hmm!

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[Harpers Tate]

1: It's unreasonable (in the current setup with separate operators running buses) to expect comapny "A" to accept passes issued by and for only company "B"'s services.
2: The Derbyshire Wayfarer is valid to/from Sheffield.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Or is it unreasonable to have a single timetabled service operated by two companies whose tickets are incompatible? Making the broadly hourly service less useful.

 

[mangad]

So, question. How did this ticket acceptance work financially? Was it as a simple as "we keep the revenue from our sales, you keep the revenue of yours?" Was it something more complicated? If it was the simple route, then how did season tickets get accounted for?

Cos this is the reality: from a passenger point of view, it is entirely preferable to have this ticket acceptance. But both operators are completely different companies, and being blunt, if the financials don't work in such an agreement, they don't work. Neither company is a charity.

 

[stevieinselby]

Do First accept High Peak day and period tickets? If not, it doesn't seem like they have any cause for complaint...

 

[mattb7tl]

A service split between operators is always such an annoyance even with partnership because all it takes is a falling out or a change in ownership for the system to fall apart can operators have some maturity for once and agree that the service is better off in the hands of one company.

 

[Deerfold]

Perhaps High Peak don't like that First doesn't put their journeys on the First timetables?

 

[JD2168]

When the journeys were run by Hulleys there was a return ticket which was valid on both operators services that each operator selt. First extended the South Yorkshire day saver to include the 272 & Hulleys accepted these.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Do First accept High Peak day and period tickets? If not, it doesn't seem like they have any cause for complaint...

No. As I understand it First refuse to accept any High Peak tickets, refuse to discuss any arrangement to do so and deny any such arrangement was in place with Hulleys either (so Hulleys acceptance was for free and not reciprocal). High Peak temporarily accepted First tickets to allow a proper deal to be arranged but given this announcement I assume they have given up on the idea that such a arrangement can be made.

 

[Flange Squeal]

No. As I understand it First refuse to accept any High Peak tickets, refuse to discuss any arrangement to do so and deny any such arrangement was in place with Hulleys either (so Hulleys acceptance was for free and not reciprocal). High Peak temporarily accepted First tickets to allow a proper deal to be arranged but given this announcement I assume they have given up on the idea that such an arrangement can be made.

If that’s the case then I’m very much in support of High Peak on this one. That reads as though they stepped in to plug gaps left in the timetable which First didn’t seem interested in doing themselves, but now being criticised for ceasing acceptance of tickets from a company who won’t accept theirs?

 

[EnviroExplorer]

A service split between operators is always such an annoyance even with partnership because all it takes is a falling out or a change in ownership for the system to fall apart can operators have some maturity for once and agree that the service is better off in the hands of one company.

Quite ironic how this could’ve all been avoided had First stepped in to operate all 271/2 journeys anyway. Being the larger operator in the area alongside Stagecoach it’s not a huge ask for a few more buses and drivers for a route they already operate.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Yet, not so long ago the there was even a scheme in place with full bus and rail ticket integration on this route.

Interavailability of rail and Bus tickets

I thought quite hard about where to put this. but as its a current question I plumped for here. I am doing indexing for timetableworld(dot)com. So I am examining bus timetables from 1960 - 1974 Most timetables have many pages about rail/road ticket availability. It seems you could travel out...

www.railforums.co.uk

And today an article from the BBC about Peak District residents complaining about being overrun with visitors and their cars, wishing for improved public transport to help solve the problem.

Parking chaos and poo: The price of Mam Tor's popularity

Mam Tor in the Peak District has become strangely popular, but what effect is this having?

www.bbc.co.uk

Another example English public transport providers needing their heads banging together.

 

[Harpers Tate]

The industry (generally, but I do consider First to be particularly dumb in this respect) does not seem able to understand that it is not competing with the other bus company, but rather with (mainly) driving. It doesn't seem to grasp that the total lack of such interavailability arrangements, or of consistency of operator (or both) - anything in fact that makes the passenger's life more difficult or expensive - is ultimately counter-productive.

 

[simonk8270]

No. As I understand it First refuse to accept any High Peak tickets, refuse to discuss any arrangement to do so and deny any such arrangement was in place with Hulleys either (so Hulleys acceptance was for free and not reciprocal). High Peak temporarily accepted First tickets to allow a proper deal to be arranged but given this announcement I assume they have given up on the idea that such a arrangement can be made.

I always thought there was an agreement in place for both companies. I can understand if the above is the case why HP are refusing to accept them and apologise if the above is correct. Just proves that the bus network in the UK is complicated and messy.