First train from Ardgay and Lairg (Scotrail)

[VideozVideoz]

How are the first trains from Ardgay (0625) and Lairg (0634) made up? There is no 'up' service from Inverness that terminates the night before on a weekday (apart from Friday) so do they send a non-timetabled train up early morning and split it so there are two portions? Or are trains stabled anywhere around Ardgay/Lairg overnight? There is nothing in the timetable that would form the trains for these services. Also, does anyone know if these run empty? Seems to me unlikely services to be popular in these areas.

 

[37 418]

I think the 21:40 to Tain runs ECS to Ardgay either after the service terminates or in the morning. Not sure about the Lairg one.

 

[me123]

Scot-rail.co.uk is a gen group that has up to date to train diagrams on its site. For the Class 158 diagrams, click here.

According to these diagrams, the 04:21 empty service from Inverness TMD-Ardgay (5H58) operates with 2 class 158 units, and arrives at Ardgay at 06:01. Here, the train splits and one portion then forms 2H54 06:25 Ardgay-Inverness. 5H58 then continues as a single Class 158 unit up to Lairg, arriving at 06:22, where it forms 2H58 06:34 Lairg-Inverness. So the trains are stabled in Inverness TMD overnight, and move up together in the early morning.

Whilst the service may not be "popular", it will undoubtedly be a valuable commuter service, linking these rural towns and villages to the relative metropolis that is Inverness. As a result, it's likely that the services into Inverness in the morning will be relatively busy.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Hmmm but I can only see a 21:09 from Inverness-Tain and that gets in at 22:15 and returns back to Inverness at 22:20... no sign of it staying overnight unless it takes extra carriages up with it!
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Scot-rail.co.uk is a gen group that has up to date to train diagrams on its site. For the Class 158 diagrams, click here.

According to these diagrams, the 04:21 empty service from Inverness TMD-Ardgay (5H58) operates with 2 class 158 units, and arrives at Ardgay at 06:01. Here, the train splits and one portion then forms 2H54 06:25 Ardgay-Inverness. 5H58 then continues as a single Class 158 unit up to Lairg, arriving at 06:22, where it forms 2H58 06:34 Lairg-Inverness. So the trains are stabled in Inverness TMD overnight, and move up together in the early morning.

Whilst the service may not be "popular", it will undoubtedly be a valuable commuter service, linking these rural towns and villages to the relative metropolis that is Inverness. As a result, it's likely that the services into Inverness in the morning will be relatively busy.

Excellent, thanks for the explanation! I posted a reply just before I saw yours so ignore my previous comments... im obviously wrong. I don't see why they don't have the 04:21 as a timetabled service then cuz if its on its way up, it may as well collect 1 or 2 fares!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Hmmm but I can only see a 21:09 from Inverness-Tain and that gets in at 22:15 and returns back to Inverness at 22:20... no sign of it staying overnight unless it takes extra carriages up with it!

It gets back into inverness at 2220, out ECS into the TMD, then at 0421 (or whatever) leaves, along with another 158 coupled up, heading towards Dingwall...

 

[me123]

I think the 21:40 to Tain runs ECS to Ardgay either after the service terminates or in the morning. Not sure about the Lairg one.

I can't find a 21:40 to Tain (unless that's part of a previous timetable?). There is a train at 21:09 from Inverness-Tain (2H77), returning as the 22:20 Tain-Inverness (2H76). On Friday nights this works an extra service, the 23:30 Inverness-Tain (2H79), before returning to Inverness TMD empty (5H79). See diagram IS822 in the link above.

The diagrams show nothing booked to stable overnight on the Far North Line (with the exception of the two sets up at Wick).
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Excellent, thanks for the explanation! I posted a reply just before I saw yours so ignore my previous comments... im obviously wrong. I don't see why they don't have the 04:21 as a timetabled service then cuz if its on its way up, it may as well collect 1 or 2 fares!

Well, I suppose services from Inverness to the middle of nowhere at silly o'clock in the morning really would be unpopular! We had a discussion elsewhere about why they run such services as ECS, and there are a variety of operational reasons for it.

Presumably it's also not ideal/possible to stable trains in that area throughout the night.

 

[VideozVideoz]

I can't find a 21:40 to Tain (unless that's part of a previous timetable?). There is a train at 21:09 from Inverness-Tain (2H77), returning as the 22:20 Tain-Inverness (2H76). On Friday nights this works an extra service, the 23:30 Inverness-Tain (2H79), before returning to Inverness TMD empty (5H79). See diagram IS822 in the link above.

The diagrams show nothing booked to stable overnight on the Far North Line (with the exception of the two sets up at Wick).
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Well, I suppose services from Inverness to the middle of nowhere at silly o'clock in the morning really would be unpopular! We had a discussion elsewhere about why they run such services as ECS, and there are a variety of operational reasons for it.

Presumably it's also not ideal/possible to stable trains in that area throughout the night.

Why have a late night service to Tain on a Friday? Please don't tell me its just to allow people to have a night out in Inverness! If thats the case, it prob should terminate at Dingwall or Invergordon. Theres not gonna be any Tain people surely wanting this service when it doesnt run in the week either! There aint a late nighter on the Kyle line to mirror this...

 

[me123]

The service runs on Friday and Saturday nights, and is probably to allow people to have a night out in Inverness. It's not unrealistic given that the train before leaves at 21:09, which is a bit early for a night out. And Tain itself is probably large enough to have at least some people using it - it's one of the larger towns up that way and has a quite well used station.

Probably the lack of a similar late night service on the Kyle line is down to the much smaller settlements (and, consequently, much quieter stations) on that particular stretch of line.

 

[37 418]

I can't find a 21:40 to Tain (unless that's part of a previous timetable?). There is a train at 21:09 from Inverness-Tain (2H77), returning as the 22:20 Tain-Inverness (2H76). On Friday nights this works an extra service, the 23:30 Inverness-Tain (2H79), before returning to Inverness TMD empty (5H79). See diagram IS822 in the link above.

Ooops, thats the time from Dingwall where I stay! It is indeed 21:09 from Inverness!

I just realised after posting that set probably forms the return 22:20 to Inverness.

 

[ObservationCar]

The service runs on Friday and Saturday nights, and is probably to allow people to have a night out in Inverness. It's not unrealistic given that the train before leaves at 21:09, which is a bit early for a night out. And Tain itself is probably large enough to have at least some people using it - it's one of the larger towns up that way and has a quite well used station.

Probably the lack of a similar late night service on the Kyle line is down to the much smaller settlements (and, consequently, much quieter stations) on that particular stretch of line.

Your Correct, this service is very useful for nights out in Inverness at cinema/bars/Eden Court etc... But it also provides a connection to the late train coming in from the Central Belt. It was highlighted in Barry Doe's bit in rail at the time of this service starting that it is now possible on a Fri or Sat to have a day trip in York or Newcastle, travelling from Tain or Dingwall.

It has been great the work Frank Roach has done to increase passenger traffic on all north lines, he has recognised that it could be used for local services as well as from Terminus to Terminus. The Kyle line is a tourist line at the end of day, which benefits the few locals who may use this.

It is also not possible except in special circumstances, for a unit to stable over night out with a Terminus, e.g. Kyle, Wick, Thurso, Inverness, (except Elgin). Maybe if the Far North and Kyle lines were not open 24hrs then stabling might be necessery, but it would be an expense to get traincrews and train security would be an issue (especially if it was Alness!)

All services north of Inverness are very well used, even the evening services. In the morning we have 3 peak trains on the Dingwall - Inverness section which between the 3 ammount to arround 200-300 passengers daily arriving into Inverness before 9am. There was a point in the RUS to strengthen the evening commuter but this was rejected, which is a pain, as it is standing room only.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Interesting comments Observation Car. As I am from nowhere near the area it's good to hear from someone who has local knowledge. As the Kyle line is mainly used by tourists, does this mean that in the Winter months the trains are running near enough empty? There aren't many largely habited places along this line so local demand is at a minimum.

 

[Greenback]

I'd imagine that there are some tourists/visitors even in Winter. When we traveleld on the line we spoke to one chap who had gone to Inverness on the early train to do his shopping, and then got off the 1100 train back with all his bags! IIRC he lived at a house at one of the stations that appears to be in the middle of nowhere!

The majority of passengers on our train in October were visitors to the area though. I'm not sure how many were going to or from Skye. The Citylink coach timetable seems to be quite good for those from Glasgow and Edinburgh, but the train connection is good for those who are travelling between Skye and the highlands or Aberdeen.

 

[me123]

All services north of Inverness are very well used, even the evening services. In the morning we have 3 peak trains on the Dingwall - Inverness section which between the 3 ammount to arround 200-300 passengers daily arriving into Inverness before 9am. There was a point in the RUS to strengthen the evening commuter but this was rejected, which is a pain, as it is standing room only.

The recent growth in services to the Far North has really boosted the local areas, and of course the services are very well used. And, indeed, could be well used with an improved service provision IMO. 1tph to Dingwall wouldn't be unrealistic (although I don't know if the constraints of the single track line and availability of rolling stock would logicically allow this).

 

[Greenback]

1tph to Dingwall is certainly worth a try. Inverness is, or at least was, growing ata fast rate, and the communities around the city need to gain access to the jobs and entertainment there.

I was talking to someone from Muir of Ord in an Inverness pub in 2006 who said the better train service had changed his life as it allowed him a social life away from his own village!

 

[ObservationCar]

1tph to Dingwall is certainly worth a try. Inverness is, or at least was, growing ata fast rate, and the communities around the city need to gain access to the jobs and entertainment there.

I was talking to someone from Muir of Ord in an Inverness pub in 2006 who said the better train service had changed his life as it allowed him a social life away from his own village!

It would be Ideal 1tph to Dingwall. The problem is a long section of Single Line between Muir of Ord and Inverness. Also it is all RETB signalling, so this can slow things down too. There is a section break at Clunes, allowing another train to leave Inverness once the previous train has cleared the 1st part of the "Long Section".

Solutions talked about:
- Colour Lights between Inverness and Dingwall
- A loop at Clunes(there was one which was taken away in 1988)
- Re-double/dynamic loop the section between Beauly and Bunchrew
- Clear 170's as far as Dingwall

Interesting point is a loop £1m for Track £7m to signal or redoubling costs £2m to build the track and points, put again £8m to signal. So redoubling is far more cost efficient. A Dynamic Loop/Double track section would also allow more flexability for late running trains, because if the morning train going north is running late, the commuters miss the Highland Cheiftain connection, the crossing point at Lairg is delayed and other scenarios are affected. Sometimes even issues in the Central Belt in the morning can cause issues until 7pm on the north lines because of long single track sections.

In the RUS it shows many parts of the railway north of Inverness at very High Capacity, which means freight finds it hard to find a path between passenger trains.

1tph would stop me from taking my car to work in Inverness and Glasgow.

 

[Greenback]

Interesting. I'd like to see the section between Beauly and Bunchrew doubled.

 

[me123]

I would also like to see doubling between Inverness and Dingwall (well, sections of the line anyway). All the way from Bunchrew-Beauly would be ideal. Sadly, I can't see Beauly itself getting 2 platforms (there isn't much space), but doubling that section would solve a lot of problems.

Beauly, as it happens, as undoubtedly one of Scotland's biggest railway success stories. Who'd have thought that so many journeys could be made from such a small station with a relatively poor service? Goes to show that the Far North Line has a lot of potential for growth,