First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Whiteway215]

The Abus 22 has indeed started today, i believe it is running to the 10th October timetable. The early finishing of First's existing service was something of a surprise to many of us, hence why there wasn't a service on Monday.

Abus and ourselves have also been given the go ahead for a 178 replacement as well. Timetable to follow.

I went out to see a couple of the 22 workings today. They weren’t busy but of course it’s early days.
I also drove the route from Twerton to Combe Down and was pleasantly surprised to see a number of young people keeping the faith and waiting for the 22.

Bus stops not served by other routes have been marked up ‘no services currently use this stop.’ Obviously the young folk I did see believed the 22 would turn up!

On my travels I saw a 20 and a 42 run by E200s. I find it hard to believe these services, along with the Bath 11 and 12 will soon be just a memory.

 

[RELL6L]

I see that Weston’s 33665 is still not tracking on the 126 although it tracked for a couple of journeys on the 7 a couple of weeks ago. I wonder if the income from the ticket machine isn’t being allocated to the 126 as well!

Some good news though, a partial replacement from Axbridge to Wells, run by Libra Travel and funded by Somerset.

Council steps in to save crucial bus services

Somerset County Council is funding vital replacement services on two key routes in the county due to be withdrawn by the operator. First West of England announced in the summer it was discontinuing…

somersetnewsroom.com

I can’t copy the text but it doesn’t give much detail, but they are also running a couple of evening journeys on the D2. Found via First’s website.

 

[M803UYA]

Some good news though, a partial replacement from Axbridge to Wells, run by Libra Travel and funded by Somerset.

So they're funding a service for their section of route, leaving North Somerset to attend to their section of route....

 

[Citistar]

So they're funding a service for their section of route, leaving North Somerset to attend to their section of route....

Yep. This is why public sector control will work so well - no bus service will be allowed to cross a county boundary.

 

[baza585]

Yep. This is why public sector control will work so well - no bus service will be allowed to cross a county boundary.

Spot on. What a farce.

 

[Bristol LH]

FWoE 44907 and 53852 have transferred to First Cymru.

53851 has also transferred to First Cymru

 

[RELL6L]

So they're funding a service for their section of route, leaving North Somerset to attend to their section of route....

Yes it’s mad. On my trip towards Wells a couple of weeks ago there were a good number boarding at and after Axbridge but also several from Weston and a few from Winscombe. A bus from Wells could make Winscombe and back in a two hour round trip, possibly Sandford too as a one way circuit.

Happening elsewhere- look at South and West Yorkshire

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So they're funding a service for their section of route, leaving North Somerset to attend to their section of route....

Yep. This is why public sector control will work so well - no bus service will be allowed to cross a county boundary.

Yes it’s mad. On my trip towards Wells a couple of weeks ago there were a good number boarding at and after Axbridge but also several from Weston and a few from Winscombe. A bus from Wells could make Winscombe and back in a two hour round trip, possibly Sandford too as a one way circuit.

Happening elsewhere- look at South and West Yorkshire

I know that I'm pushing against an open door with @Citistar but North Somerset Council has to be one of the most abysmal local authorities for public transport. They are parochial - hence why unlike the other three "CUBA" (Counties that Used to Be Avon) local authorities, they elected not to be part of the Combined Authority.

In the past, they have invested in public transport though it has always been other people's money whether that be section 106 funding from developers, or the £6.8m grant from the Department for Transport, Local Growth Fund and Historic England that funded the new interchange and other changes to the town centre, or the Local Sustainable Transport Fund that funded the A2 to Bristol Airport and the crazy coach services to North Bristol from Kings Ferry.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the view from NSC is - "we support the 51 so they get a bus every two hours to Winscombe - that's enough!

Certainly, if Somerset CC could have the foresight to run it to Winscombe rather than Axbridge, that might be a start but a bus running two hourly from Weston to Axbridge via Winscombe (coordinated with the 51 to provide an hourly service) would be better still.

 

[Whiteway215]

53851 has also transferred to First Cymru

I have little doubt a few others from Bath will follow to Cymru when next weekend’s extensive cuts take place.
Seeing 44907 went to Cymru I think it highly likely several of Bath’s E200s which will also be rendered surplus next weekend will also be heading to Wales.

 

[Citistar]

I know that I'm pushing against an open door with @Citistar but North Somerset Council has to be one of the most abysmal local authorities for public transport. They are parochial - hence why unlike the other three "CUBA" (Counties that Used to Be Avon) local authorities, they elected not to be part of the Combined Authority.

The decision about not becoming part of the Combined Authority seemed to be more of a political decision by the blue team rather than the current yellow and independent coalition that is in charge, who are a little more progressive.

In the past, they have invested in public transport though it has always been other people's money whether that be section 106 funding from developers, or the £6.8m grant from the Department for Transport, Local Growth Fund and Historic England that funded the new interchange and other changes to the town centre, or the Local Sustainable Transport Fund that funded the A2 to Bristol Airport and the crazy coach services to North Bristol from Kings Ferry.

I think Bristol Airport's cash has also been used to paper over a lot of cracks in the past. The council's position isn't helped by the fact that their officers appear to struggle to draw any kind of partition between their Home to School and Public Transport budgets. Whilst there are potentially operational benefits to be drawn from all transport procurement working together, i haven't noted this being used to any benefit since the departments were merged in to the Integrated Transport Unit.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the view from NSC is - "we support the 51 so they get a bus every two hours to Winscombe - that's enough!

Certainly, if Somerset CC could have the foresight to run it to Winscombe rather than Axbridge, that might be a start but a bus running two hourly from Weston to Axbridge via Winscombe (coordinated with the 51 to provide an hourly service) would be better still.

But this is where the issues of borders comes up again. If there were to be a 126 replacement over the Weston end which was evenly spread with the 51, it would need to be the first thing in place so that the Somerset procured 126 could be co-ordinated with it. But i've seen little evidence of the communication that would enable a constructive result.

North Somerset appears to be losing an awful lot of bus services at the moment - 126 to Cheddar & Wells, anything via Locking village, all service to the Sandford retirement complex and all services via Yatton, Winford, Felton and Dundry. Meanwhile their preferred bidder is getting pretty trigger happy at cancelling journeys on the 50/57/59 as well. I did make an offer to replace part of the 53/54 services before i was involved with the 178, but apparently that wasn't of interest.

 

[stait.john]

Streetdecks 35112, 35116, 35164 have transferred from Hengrove to Hampshire & Dorset.

 

[baza585]

Streetdecks 35112, 35116, 35164 have transferred from Hengrove to Hampshire & Dorset.

Oh deep joy!

To be fair, after a difficult start, a couple of the ex Leeds buses have settled down to be reliable and rather more pleasant to travel on than Go South Coast's newer ADL e400 Cities. The third bus is less pleasant to travel on whilst the fourth one has gone up in flames. The clue is in the name Streetdeck; they are OK as buses on city routes, less suitable for inter urban routes (think 376 or X53....)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The decision about not becoming part of the Combined Authority seemed to be more of a political decision by the blue team rather than the current yellow and independent coalition that is in charge, who are a little more progressive.



I think Bristol Airport's cash has also been used to paper over a lot of cracks in the past. The council's position isn't helped by the fact that their officers appear to struggle to draw any kind of partition between their Home to School and Public Transport budgets. Whilst there are potentially operational benefits to be drawn from all transport procurement working together, i haven't noted this being used to any benefit since the departments were merged in to the Integrated Transport Unit.



But this is where the issues of borders comes up again. If there were to be a 126 replacement over the Weston end which was evenly spread with the 51, it would need to be the first thing in place so that the Somerset procured 126 could be co-ordinated with it. But i've seen little evidence of the communication that would enable a constructive result.

North Somerset appears to be losing an awful lot of bus services at the moment - 126 to Cheddar & Wells, anything via Locking village, all service to the Sandford retirement complex and all services via Yatton, Winford, Felton and Dundry. Meanwhile their preferred bidder is getting pretty trigger happy at cancelling journeys on the 50/57/59 as well. I did make an offer to replace part of the 53/54 services before i was involved with the 178, but apparently that wasn't of interest.

Fair point in that the decision not to join the Combined Authority was under a different administration though they still seem to be ploughing their own furrow in many ways.

You're right about the Airport money being a factor. I think the A5 was an example of that.

My comment on a route to run from Weston to Axbridge is, of course, predicated on some grown up conversations being had. The approach of North Somerset Council seems beyond comprehension... It's not complete apathy (see all the "initiatives" they have done with other people's money) but then again, they are so bereft of any real commitment.

Streetdecks 35112, 35116, 35164 have transferred from Hengrove to Hampshire & Dorset.

Oh deep joy!

To be fair, after a difficult start, a couple of the ex Leeds buses have settled down to be reliable and rather more pleasant to travel on than GSCs newer ADL e400 cities. The third bus is less pleasant to travel on whilst the fourth one has gone up in flames. The clue is in the name Streetdeck; they are OK as buses on city routes, less suitable for inter urban routes (think 376 or X53....)

As I mentioned on my Weston/Bristol trip (see that thread) the other week, the Streetlites aren't a bad machine. I've not had reason to really question the build quality and they have seemed to pootle around South Bristol without too much issue. I don't know if the drivetrain is any different on the new Badgerline versions but clearly, the experience on the 376 wasn't great. In fact, that's another thing... the 376 was a flagship route and is now in the hands of 10 year old e400s. It really shouldn't be, but I don't see any improvement in the short term - I hope I'm proved wrong.

I've travelled on the ADL400 City vehicles in Bristol and on the Excel service in Norfolk. The latter are nice buses but they do creak a bit. However, that's nothing compared to the Bristol ones; they are generally poor and, as I showed in one example, the build quality is somewhat suspect. As for you receiving Streetdecks, they should be ok trundling around Southampton but the X53 is probably best suited to the mmcs that were received from Bristol (though the ex Green Line B9TLs really are the best vehicles I've experienced on there).

 

[baza585]

As I mentioned on my Weston/Bristol trip (see that thread) the other week, the Streetlites aren't a bad machine. I've not had reason to really question the build quality and they have seemed to pootle around South Bristol without too much issue. I don't know if the drivetrain is any different on the new Badgerline versions but clearly, the experience on the 376 wasn't great. In fact, that's another thing... the 376 was a flagship route and is now in the hands of 10 year old e400s. It really shouldn't be, but I don't see any improvement in the short term - I hope I'm proved wrong.

I've travelled on the ADL400 City vehicles in Bristol and on the Excel service in Norfolk. The latter are nice buses but they do creak a bit. However, that's nothing compared to the Bristol ones; they are generally poor and, as I showed in one example, the build quality is somewhat suspect. As for you receiving Streetdecks, they should be ok trundling around Southampton but the X53 is probably best suited to the mmcs that were received from Bristol (though the ex Green Line B9TLs really are the best vehicles I've experienced on there).

The Streetdecks are fine pootling around Southampton, which is the only routes they now have from Empress Rd.

The bus that self-immolated was on a dead rin back from Bournemouth on the A31 after Air Show duties. My fear is that part of the business case for getting deckers for Southampton is for use on rail replacement at weekends, for which they are less than ideal.

Interesting that Hengrove have chosen to cascade Streetdecks rather than older Volvo B9s (in my view the best double decker of its generation, and you are right the ex Green Line ones at Weymouth are particularly pleasant).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Streetdecks are fine pootling around Southampton, which is the only routes they now have from Empress Rd.

The bus that self-immolated was on a dead rin back from Bournemouth on the A31 after Air Show duties. My fear is that part of the business case for getting deckers for Southampton is for use on rail replacement at weekends, for which they are less than ideal.

Interesting that Hengrove have chosen to cascade Streetdecks rather than older Volvo B9s (in my view the best double decker of its generation, and you are right the ex Green Line ones at Weymouth are particularly pleasant).

I doubt that Hengrove had any input on the cascades; those are national fleet decisions. There have been enough B9s moved out to Hampshire (initially) and now direct to Cornwall. Some not quite mid life cascades helps other OpCos and balances the age profile in Bristol.
The Bristol B9s may indeed have been excellent vehicles but at 14/15 years old, they are beginning to show their age. That one Streetdeck caught light as it returned from pootling round the airshow is unfortunate but not an entire reflection of their use on RR duties

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Yes it’s mad. On my trip towards Wells a couple of weeks ago there were a good number boarding at and after Axbridge but also several from Weston and a few from Winscombe. A bus from Wells could make Winscombe and back in a two hour round trip, possibly Sandford too as a one way circuit.

Happening elsewhere- look at South and West Yorkshire

The difference with South/West Yorkshire and Somerset is that the former are covered by Combined Authorities who rigidly impose cross boundary restrictions unlike their Shire county authorities who don't - for example the Wiltshire Dayrover takes you into Bath, Frome, Cirencester and a few other places over the border whereas a West Yorkshire Dayrover/Daysaver only takes you as far as the county boundary after that you have to cough up to go further. However when Stagecoach were running into Holmfirth boundary was unoffically at Dunford Bridge (although I think this was only done because Holmfirth is closer than Penistone) and not at the official bounday at Snittlegate, Flight Hill/Dunford Road.

The other issue is how would Somerset County Council and North Somerset Council mark the boundary bus stops? Would one paint the poles maroon/plum and the other red?

 

[DaveHarries]

Yep. This is why public sector control will work so well - no bus service will be allowed to cross a county boundary.

I could read that two ways:
1. Not allowing bus services to cross county boundaries would be a good thing.
2. No bus service is currently allowed to cross a county boundary at present but public sector control would solve that

Sorry if this is a think question - I do tend to ask 'em - but which is it please?

Meanwhile the service changes for 09th October will be accompanied by a number of revisions to stopping locations in Bristol City Centre with, for example, the Broadmead-bound 3 & 4 (Cribbs Causeway - City Centre) routes operating via. Baldwin Street. Is this a plan to improve timings a bit by missing out more congested sections on some services?

Bristol City Centre Bus Stop Changes from Sunday 9 October 2022

From Sunday 9 October, most services which go into Bristol City Centre will be relocating. For more information on how your service will be affected, please see the chart below. You can also click on the service number to view the latest timetable and route map.

www.firstbus.co.uk

Dave

 

[freetoview33]

I could read that two ways:
1. Not allowing bus services to cross county boundaries would be a good thing.
2. No bus service is currently allowed to cross a county boundary at present but public sector control would solve that

Sorry if this is a think question - I do tend to ask 'em - but which is it please?

Meanwhile the service changes for 09th October will be accompanied by a number of revisions to stopping locations in Bristol City Centre with, for example, the Broadmead-bound 3 & 4 (Cribbs Causeway - City Centre) routes operating via. Baldwin Street. Is this a plan to improve timings a bit by missing out more congested sections on some services?

Bristol City Centre Bus Stop Changes from Sunday 9 October 2022

From Sunday 9 October, most services which go into Bristol City Centre will be relocating. For more information on how your service will be affected, please see the chart below. You can also click on the service number to view the latest timetable and route map.

www.firstbus.co.uk

Dave

I'm guessing it's more about rerouting away from the galleries and underneath it.

 

[Citistar]

I could read that two ways:
1. Not allowing bus services to cross county boundaries would be a good thing.
2. No bus service is currently allowed to cross a county boundary at present but public sector control would solve that

Sorry if this is a think question - I do tend to ask 'em - but which is it please?

Neither really - It's more the problem that councils don't seem to like paying for bus services which cross boundaries, hence we get nonsense like the 55 route in North Somerset which effectively tracks the border, but won't serve villages on the B&NES side of it; or the 126 which will effectively get to the Somerset County Council boundary and stop from next week.

There is also no statutory obligation upon councils to co-operate and discuss these things constructively with each other, which leads to the loss of cross-boundary services if they can't be operated commercially. And once everything is operated on contract, there is only one logical conclusion.

 

[sk688]

Used the 22 to go up to campus yesterday from Oldfield , as the u1/u2 queues were predictably long.

Very well loaded , was full by the time we reached Odd Down/Combe Down , and we were all waved on for free with the driver saying " its free at the moment " . How long will it remain free for + will it start tracking on bustimes soon?

 

[M803UYA]

Yes it’s mad. On my trip towards Wells a couple of weeks ago there were a good number boarding at and after Axbridge but also several from Weston and a few from Winscombe. A bus from Wells could make Winscombe and back in a two hour round trip, possibly Sandford too as a one way circuit.

Happening elsewhere- look at South and West Yorkshire

Slightly OT but the 'elsewhere' is where I now reside. I have the misfortune of living in North Yorkshire, but bordering South/West Yorkshire. Each of those has acted identically to the situation with the 126 service, in addressing 'their' parts of the route - the through link is now severed but we're covered by the West Yorkshire solution to the problem as we're within 2 miles of their area.

 

[Buses in Bath]

Used the 22 to go up to campus yesterday from Oldfield , as the u1/u2 queues were predictably long.

Very well loaded , was full by the time we reached Odd Down/Combe Down , and we were all waved on for free with the driver saying " its free at the moment " . How long will it remain free for + will it start tracking on bustimes soon?

do they have ticket machines yet? Alan was saying that ticket machines were a problem so until they have them / they're working I guess it will be free. I assume the goal is to have it working from next Monday when the rest of the services start

 

[Citistar]

do they have ticket machines yet? Alan was saying that ticket machines were a problem so until they have them / they're working I guess it will be free. I assume the goal is to have it working from next Monday when the rest of the services start

Ticket machines remain a challenge. The lead times on getting things arranged or supplied seem to be horrendous. I know Alan has had a few different solutions proposed, but the question of whether any can be done in time remains.

 

[Whiteway215]

Used the 22 to go up to campus yesterday from Oldfield , as the u1/u2 queues were predictably long.

Very well loaded , was full by the time we reached Odd Down/Combe Down , and we were all waved on for free with the driver saying " its free at the moment " . How long will it remain free for + will it start tracking on bustimes soon?

I’m pleased the 22 worked for you.
In my opinion it’s a more interesting route! Like a Magical Mystery Tour of parts of Bath the tourists never see!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ticket machines remain a challenge. The lead times on getting things arranged or supplied seem to be horrendous. I know Alan has had a few different solutions proposed, but the question of whether any can be done in time remains.

Hmmmm…. Setright or Almex then?

 

[Citistar]

Hmmmm…. Setright or Almex then?

I think Alan still has a stack of Wayfarer 3s somewhere. And i might be able to coax a Saver back in to life. Could be interesting to see where people try to put their debit cards on them...

 

[Tom Clayton]

I could read that two ways:
1. Not allowing bus services to cross county boundaries would be a good thing.
2. No bus service is currently allowed to cross a county boundary at present but public sector control would solve that

Sorry if this is a think question - I do tend to ask 'em - but which is it please?

Meanwhile the service changes for 09th October will be accompanied by a number of revisions to stopping locations in Bristol City Centre with, for example, the Broadmead-bound 3 & 4 (Cribbs Causeway - City Centre) routes operating via. Baldwin Street. Is this a plan to improve timings a bit by missing out more congested sections on some services?

Bristol City Centre Bus Stop Changes from Sunday 9 October 2022

From Sunday 9 October, most services which go into Bristol City Centre will be relocating. For more information on how your service will be affected, please see the chart below. You can also click on the service number to view the latest timetable and route map.

www.firstbus.co.uk

Dave

I'm guessing it's more about rerouting away from the galleries and underneath it.

First have acquired some office space in marsh street ( canteen, toilets, TCs and managers offices) so Lawrence hill will have all reliefs in the centre and I’m guessing hengrove will have most down centre too. new driver relief points down centre not broadmead area so drivers won’t have to walk so far to get to marsh street

 

[Dai Corner]

First have acquired some office space in marsh street ( canteen, toilets, TCs and managers offices) so Lawrence hill will have all reliefs in the centre and I’m guessing hengrove will have most down centre too. new driver relief points down centre not broadmead area so drivers won’t have to walk so far to get to marsh street

Nostalgia Corner: How long ago was it that BOC moved out of their premises on the Centre?

 

[GusB]

Could someone explain to the wider forum who this mysterious "Alan" is, please?

Also, be careful to avoid using industry abbreviations or acronyms without defining them the first time they're used in a post. Thanks

 

[Dai Corner]

Could someone explain to the wider forum who this mysterious "Alan" is, please?

Also, be careful to avoid using industry abbreviations or acronyms without defining them the first time they're used in a post. Thanks

Alan Peters, proprietor of Bristol based operator A-Bus. I thought he'd retired, but it seems he's decided to come back.