First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

It might well be! But time will tell! Anyone want to hazard a guess at the next area First anywhere in the Southwest will try to regain?
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Although I think BoS will end up having to extending the 14 so it operates Bridgwater - Minehead, if they are intent on removing Webberbus.

I don't really see that. They're probably both losing cash already on that route and BoS did cut the short 14s (were they local or to Cannington?).

The 67 is probably the only route worth registering now unless BoS are gearing up for an open top service in Minehead to Porlock!!
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To be fair Wessex are First's biggest competitor in the region. It will be interesting to see if Rotala fight back, I'm not going to hold my breathe though....

Depends how you see competition. Rotala have had a network of tenders in South Glos plus the UWE contract. Very little head to head commercial competition unlike Crosville and Faresaver who have waded in with carbon copy or very similar services. However, what will ultimately be more lucrative and how many fights do you want?

 

[winston270twm]

Depends how you see competition. Rotala have had a network of tenders in South Glos plus the UWE contract. Very little head to head commercial competition unlike Crosville and Faresaver who have waded in with carbon copy or very similar services. However, what will ultimately be more lucrative and how many fights do you want?

I'd personally like to see Rotala strengthen their SW operation by acquiring Faresaver and adding their commercial routes to the Wessex business. Rotala have been pushed out off a large chunck of Centro tenders in the West Midlands by Arriva & WMSNT, off numerous long established commercial competitive services by NXWM and now by First in South Glos & new competitive services to UWE. In the majority of instances Rotala just seem to rollover and let it happen......

 

[freetoview33]

To be fair Wessex are First's biggest competitor in the region. It will be interesting to see if Rotala fight back, I'm not going to hold my breathe though....

If they do I will be amazed, it will be very interesting to see what does happen in that fight. Although Rotala now only run supported routes now (I think)

 

[matt_splat]

at least one Wessex contract could be changing hands in November to a commercial operation with first very much watch this space and see if the rumors come true but getting from Bath - Norton could become easier

I wonder if first would be interested in trying to put a service from Minehead to Porlock and try to put the squeeze on webber there next?

last time I used the 14 it was a very busy route with a webberbus solo zipping about trying to get ahead empty

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

at least one Wessex contract could be changing hands in November to a commercial operation with first very much watch this space and see if the rumors come true but getting from Bath - Norton could become easier

I wonder if first would be interested in trying to put a service from Minehead to Porlock and try to put the squeeze on webber there next?

last time I used the 14 it was a very busy route with a webberbus solo zipping about trying to get ahead empty

The 14 might just be ok for one operator (though there's a lot of pass holders) between Nether Stowey and Bridgwater. Bit thin by time you get to Holford and beyond, and certainly not enough for two operators

Having used the last 178 (albeit on a Fri/Sat), they're pretty busy so thought First might make those commercial!

 

[swifty]

at least one Wessex contract could be changing hands in November to a commercial operation with first very much watch this space and see if the rumors come true but getting from Bath - Norton could become easier

I wonder if first would be interested in trying to put a service from Minehead to Porlock and try to put the squeeze on webber there next?

last time I used the 14 it was a very busy route with a webberbus solo zipping about trying to get ahead empty

Could be onto something there Matt....

PH1066711/55 - FLIGHTS HALLMARK LTD, BEACON HOUSE, LONG ACRE, ASTON, BIRMINGHAM, B7 5JJ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Bristol, Union Street and Bath Bus Station given service number 178 effective from 01-Nov-2014.
PH1066711/112 - FLIGHTS HALLMARK LTD, BEACON HOUSE, LONG ACRE, ASTON, BIRMINGHAM, B7 5JJ
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Midsomer Norton Town Hall and Bath Bus Station given service number 178/179 effective from 01-Nov-2014.

 

[winston270twm]

The 14 might just be ok for one operator (though there's a lot of pass holders) between Nether Stowey and Bridgwater. Bit thin by time you get to Holford and beyond, and certainly not enough for two operators

Having used the last 178 (albeit on a Fri/Sat), they're pretty busy so thought First might make those commercial!

I can see First going after the UWE contracts in the future, it would be game over for Wessex if First ever got that work. I believe Wessex are safe until 2017

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You'd anticipate that the UWE contracts will have break clauses inserted dependant on SLAs? More intriguing, if Matt is correct, is a further undermining of Burnett ops.

 

[swifty]

I can see First going after the UWE contracts in the future, it would be game over for Wessex if First ever got that work. I believe Wessex are safe until 2017

August 2016 is when their contract expires, but the fact that UWE approached First to run commercial services to Frenchay and re-route the 5 to serve Glenside as well says it all really.

 

[winston270twm]

August 2016 is when their contract expires, but the fact that UWE approached First to run commercial services to Frenchay and re-route the 5 to serve Glenside as well says it all really.

Wasn't far away & couldn't find the reply I had from Rotala when I asked the question.

Are we certain that UWE actually approached First? I know it is quoted in the First Bristol MD's article, but Rotala say different when asked. Someone is being flexible with the truth, but which one?

 

[swifty]

Wasn't far away & couldn't find the reply I had from Rotala when I asked the question.

Are we certain that UWE actually approached First? I know it is quoted in the First Bristol MD's article, but Rotala say different when asked. Someone is being flexible with the truth, but which one?

What would Paul Matthews gain by lying in the trade press? I've found answers that Mr Dunn gives about Wessex over on the WM Bus forum to be different to those from local sources.

 

[vicbury]

Interesting that Wessex are quitting the 178. At least in the meanwhile BANES have finally sorted out the ticketing mess which meant passengers had to pay twice if they travelled home in the evening!

Bus passengers in Midsomer Norton and Radstock will no longer face having to fork out twice for separate tickets for journeys home from Bath in the evening.

Bath & North East Somerset Council has reached agreement with Wessex, the operator of the evening journeys on the 178 and 179, to accept First Day tickets for travel on the evening services.

Councillor Caroline Roberts (Lib-Dem, Newbridge), the Council’s Cabinet Member for Transport, said: “I am pleased to say that the Council has stepped in and agreed a change in the contract with Wessex so that passengers are now able to use First Day tickets on the 178 and 179 evening services operated by Wessex.

“Bath & North East Somerset Council wants to make bus travel easier and this change will save passengers money and improve the choice of services they can catch in the evening.”

The Council has had a long-standing arrangement for return tickets sold on daytime First services 178 and 179 to be accepted on the equivalent evening (contracted) services operated by Wessex.

When First changed its ticketing arrangements to replace returns with Day tickets, passengers were no longer able to use them on the Wessex services.

This meant that customers who needed both services were required to purchase two single tickets, sometimes at much greater cost, or an AvonRider ticket, also at a premium cost.

I also note that Wessex's buses on the U18 in Bath look incredibly bashed up for only two years old, doesn't give off a professional image at all!
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Having used the last 178 (albeit on a Fri/Sat), they're pretty busy so thought First might make those commercial!

I've always been surprised that they are subsidised, they seem fairly well loaded on all nights of the week.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I also note that Wessex's buses on the U18 in Bath look incredibly bashed up for only two years old, doesn't give off a professional image at all!

That's Wessex for you!

On the other hand, had a journey on First's 37013 (a 55-reg Gemini) on the 2 last week. Looks brand new, despite approaching ten years old!

 

[winston270twm]

What would Paul Matthews gain by lying in the trade press? I've found answers that Mr Dunn gives about Wessex over on the WM Bus forum to be different to those from local sources.

I understand where you're coming from re: Paul Matthews, I'm totally reliant on this forum for First Bristol / Wessex info as I'm based in the West Mids

First have also been elaborate with the truth in the past regarding new vehicle orders to both the trade press & the stock market.

I agree some of the responses I've had from Mr Dunn re: Wessex & new First UWE services have been at odds with what is being posted on here. But unfortunately I'm not in a position to argue them. If you are? please feel free to contribute to the WM Buses forum, as I would be interested to see Rotala's response.

To back-up some of the points being posted on here, Flights Hallmark have been fined £20k for 'Failure to operate local services in accordance with registered timetables'
http://www.route-one.net/legal/regulations/20k-penalty-rotala-owned-flights-hallmark/

 

[ValleyLines142]

I'm using the 31 bus in Bath on Thursday (Lansdowne Park and Ride). Does this mean: ENVIRO 400s?!?!?! Or are these exclusively on the 41?

Also, has one of these Enviro 400s ever wandered onto other routes such as the X39 or the 319? That would be so fantastical and magical; I think I'd cry.

 

[Private Baxter]

I'm using the 31 bus in Bath on Thursday (Lansdowne Park and Ride). Does this mean: ENVIRO 400s?!?!?! Or are these exclusively on the 41?

Also, has one of these Enviro 400s ever wandered onto other routes such as the X39 or the 319? That would be so fantastical and magical; I think I'd cry.

These Enviros work all the Park & Ride services, 21, 31 and 41. And whilst it's possible (and common) for other double deckers, and even sometimes eclipses) to work these routes, the 62 reg Enviros NEVER work another route.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

These Enviros work all the Park & Ride services, 21, 31 and 41. And whilst it's possible (and common) for other double deckers, and even sometimes eclipses) to work these routes, the 62 reg Enviros NEVER work another route.

Magical? Crying? You need to take more water with it.

The E400Hs are a bit slow when slogging up the hills and they aren't the most reliable, hence why Geminis are not uncommon. As Baxter says, you never see them on anything except the 21/31/41 ever. They're ok in terms of ride quality but they're not exceptional buses IMHO.

 

[Rich McLean]

Deleted

 

[ValleyLines142]

Magical? Crying? You need to take more water with it.

The E400Hs are a bit slow when slogging up the hills and they aren't the most reliable, hence why Geminis are not uncommon. As Baxter says, you never see them on anything except the 21/31/41 ever. They're ok in terms of ride quality but they're not exceptional buses IMHO.

Don't burst my bubble now! You do this all the time don't spoil it for me!

In fact, I'm going on a Newport Bus Enviro 400 tomorrow on the X30, and next week I'm going to Manchester, which is home to a LOT of the buggers!

 

[swifty]

Magical? Crying? You need to take more water with it.

The E400Hs are a bit slow when slogging up the hills and they aren't the most reliable, hence why Geminis are not uncommon. As Baxter says, you never see them on anything except the 21/31/41 ever. They're ok in terms of ride quality but they're not exceptional buses IMHO.

I have to agree I wasn't impressed with the build quality compared to the Gemini that they replaced. Having said that the Hybrid technology is quite impressive and it's very strange the first time you travel on one!

 

[ValleyLines142]

I have to agree I wasn't impressed with the build quality compared to the Gemini that they replaced. Having said that the Hybrid technology is quite impressive and it's very strange the first time you travel on one!

I didn't know they were Hybrids; I thought they were similar to the new batch of six at Weston for the X1! (33825-33830)

I'm presuming they're similar to Manchester Hybrids?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Don't burst my bubble now! You do this all the time don't spoil it for me!

In fact, I'm going on a Newport Bus Enviro 400 tomorrow on the X30, and next week I'm going to Manchester, which is home to a LOT of the buggers!

Managing expectations It's been mentioned before that they're hybrids and don't have the same performance as a standard vehicle, hence why they're 39*** not 33***.

I'm with Swifty. Whilst IMHO the enviro looks better, the Wright product is generally better put together and that's what's important to customers.

 

[freetoview33]

I have only been on a hybrid once in London, I think it was a E400H and in traffic it was bliss, lovely and quiet. Especially when you are used to the Darts that where on the 20 that just shuddered and rattled like no tomorrow when it was stopped!

 

[swifty]

Managing expectations It's been mentioned before that they're hybrids and don't have the same performance as a standard vehicle, hence why they're 39*** not 33***.

I'm with Swifty. Whilst IMHO the enviro looks better, the Wright product is generally better put together and that's what's important to customers.

The moulded plastics on the stairs vs laminated Ply on the E400s is what stands out as a cheaper product to me. The performance isn't too bad on the 21 as it's a fairly flat route thankfully!

It's nice to see ADL have gone with moulded plastic on the MMC however and the interior now looks a lot more sturdier and durable, and I'm not a fan of ADL but I have to say I think the MMC trumps the Gemini 3 in looks and style.
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Impressive make up on the 17 this evening, the bus that works the last departure from Southmead was almost an hour down on the 21:15 to Keynsham, with the penultimate (22:15) bus only a few minutes behind.

It must've run light from Keynsham to Southmead, or at least part of the route, to pick up the 23:15 service as it was only 5 minutes late by the time it reached Keynsham on the last run.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have only been on a hybrid once in London, I think it was a E400H and in traffic it was bliss, lovely and quiet. Especially when you are used to the Darts that where on the 20 that just shuddered and rattled like no tomorrow when it was stopped!

Anything is better than those Drats! In terms of hybrids, been on First and Stagecoach e400Hs and Go Ahead and Arriva B5LH/Wt Gemini and the Volvo was better. However, the recent facelifts make the Gemini awful whilst enhancing the e400 IMHO.

 

[freetoview33]

Does anyone thing the new First Bristol 72 service will be the downfall of the Wessex 19 service? Or are the routes different enough for both to carry on. The 71 will be good but really only replace the old Wessex 11/12 services which went the same route.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Managing expectations It's been mentioned before that they're hybrids and don't have the same performance as a standard vehicle, hence why they're 39*** not 33***.

I haven't noticed, didn't realise they were Hybrids. I just thought it was a randon fleet numbering system.

I have only been on a hybrid once in London, I think it was a E400H and in traffic it was bliss, lovely and quiet. Especially when you are used to the Darts that where on the 20 that just shuddered and rattled like no tomorrow when it was stopped!

I went on one on the 16 in London last week and it was lovely! Really nice bus so quiet!

The moulded plastics on the stairs vs laminated Ply on the E400s is what stands out as a cheaper product to me. The performance isn't too bad on the 21 as it's a fairly flat route thankfully!

It's nice to see ADL have gone with moulded plastic on the MMC however and the interior now looks a lot more sturdier and durable, and I'm not a fan of ADL but I have to say I think the MMC trumps the Gemini 3 in looks and style.

The Gemini 2 is quite a nice bus (are these the ones that are used in London on the 25 and 38?)

As for the Gemini 3, well I have never seen such a vile heap of s**t in all my life! The ones that Stagecoach London have for the 7 and the 53 are HIDEOUS. What on earth is the rear window about?! They literally look as if they've been influenced by an LSD-induced trip to Ikea!

Besides, First must be a fan of the Enviro 400s, otherwise they wouldn't have had the rest of the 338xx batch that went to Manchester and Sheffield (being used at the CWG earlier this year)?

Impressive make up on the 17 this evening, the bus that works the last departure from Southmead was almost an hour down on the 21:15 to Keynsham, with the penultimate (22:15) bus only a few minutes behind.

It must've run light from Keynsham to Southmead, or at least part of the route, to pick up the 23:15 service as it was only 5 minutes late by the time it reached Keynsham on the last run.

Wow that is something! What was the reason for this, especially at that hour of the day?! I'm guessing it was down to a vehicle fault?

Also, have the roadworks in Kingswood been completed now? Currently having a mare of a time trying to get on the 42/43!

 

[DaveHarries]

Does anyone thing the new First Bristol 72 service will be the downfall of the Wessex 19 service? Or are the routes different enough for both to carry on. The 71 will be good but really only replace the old Wessex 11/12 services which went the same route.

There will be some differences between the 19 and 72. The 19 goes up past the University and through Cotham before heading around to Redland station and down to Gloucester Road.

The 72 will go Centre - Clifton Triangle - Blackboy Hill Top - Coldharbour Road - Cranbrook Road - Gloucester Road. Still, time will tell.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I haven't noticed, didn't realise they were Hybrids. I just thought it was a randon fleet numbering system.

As for the Gemini 3, well I have never seen such a vile heap of s**t in all my life! The ones that Stagecoach London have for the 7 and the 53 are HIDEOUS. What on earth is the rear window about?! They literally look as if they've been influenced by an LSD-induced trip to Ikea!

Besides, First must be a fan of the Enviro 400s, otherwise they wouldn't have had the rest of the 338xx batch that went to Manchester and Sheffield (being used at the CWG earlier this year)? !

The e400 is now the preferred choice of the five main groups with the new Arriva Sapphire examples in Northumberland looking especially smart.

The Gemini 3 is trying to minimise weight through less glazing and so increase mpg performance. It is better put together and it may return better mpg but pretty it certainly isn't!

Travelled on the B5LH/Wright G2 of both Arriva (Newcastle to Blyth) and Go NE (Angel Newcastle to Durham) so a mix of urban and interurban and they're good machines.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Does anyone thing the new First Bristol 72 service will be the downfall of the Wessex 19 service? Or are the routes different enough for both to carry on. The 71 will be good but really only replace the old Wessex 11/12 services which went the same route.

The 72 U believe replaces the 15, not the 19. The 19 will still run its route as normal.

As for the 71, it's the 11 it is replacing, the 12 again will still run.