First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

But Wells is a heritage city.

Trainee accountant means naff all nowadays. Chartered accountant is very lucrative though, but I'm a couple of years off that and I'm still umming and urring about whether I want to complete it all or do something else.

If you've the talent and application, I'd certainly advise you pursue getting CIMA quals. Driving has its benefits but few people have the talent to do accountancy and it does help pay the bills.

Heritage City - I did mention the Cathedral and it is a lovely place to visit. I often go on a cycle ride and break it at Wells. However, it does suffer by being in the middle of things without being close to much, if that makes sense. These days, it feels more like a dormitory town for people working in Bristol and Bath especially with Clares and Nutricia having both closed which may reflect why the 173 and 376 have grown in strength.

 

[swifty]

These days, it feels more like a dormitory town for people working in Bristol and Bath especially with Clares and Nutricia having both closed which may reflect why the 173 and 376 have grown in strength.

And that is a big reason why the main services from Wells that can sustain investment and enhanced frequencies head north, not south to a small town like Taunton!

 

[vicbury]

And that is a big reason why the main services from Wells that can sustain investment and enhanced frequencies head north, not south to a small town like Taunton!

Isn't Taunton one of the fastest growing towns in the UK for young professionals? People who want an urban lifestyle with bars, restaurants, cafes etc are settling in Taunton in favour of Bristol or Exeter due to the lower house prices.

As car ownership amongst those in their 20s is at its lowest rate for a long time, there may be a captive market for First to explore. Clearly, the bus could never compete with the train between Taunton and Bristol, but I wonder if there is a more local market to be developed.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Isn't Taunton one of the fastest growing towns in the UK for young professionals? People who want an urban lifestyle with bars, restaurants, cafes etc are settling in Taunton in favour of Bristol or Exeter due to the lower house prices.

As car ownership amongst those in their 20s is at its lowest rate for a long time, there may be a captive market for First to explore. Clearly, the bus could never compete with the train between Taunton and Bristol, but I wonder if there is a more local market to be developed.

Hence the Monkton Heathfield changes that reflect the growth of that area but the gravitational pull of the Bristol Metro area is much greater than that of Taunton for people in central Somerset.

 

[Citistar]

Isn't Taunton one of the fastest growing towns in the UK for young professionals? People who want an urban lifestyle with bars, restaurants, cafes etc are settling in Taunton in favour of Bristol or Exeter due to the lower house prices.

As car ownership amongst those in their 20s is at its lowest rate for a long time, there may be a captive market for First to explore. Clearly, the bus could never compete with the train between Taunton and Bristol, but I wonder if there is a more local market to be developed.

That is a very metropolitan view. Car ownership amongst 17-30 year olds may well be at very low rates in major cities, but i doubt it has ever been higher out in the sticks. I'd suggest that one of the freedoms people escaping Bristol and Exeter are looking for is the possibility of owning their own transport and being able to park it near their property.

 

[CD]

That seems a little odd Ron, 2 buses leaving at the same times between Yeovil/ Ilchester section. Otherwise great news for passengers in our area, so many thanks to BOS for that, let's hope these services are successfull.
Think the 29 times are about right for that route and good to see 75 serving Wells again. Cheers, Mike

Oops the last 54 on Saturdays is 1805.

 

[CD]

I base that view on infrastructure and demographics. How many train stations does Wells have? How many businesses are there in Wells compared to Yeovil, Taunton and Bridgwater. What sort of public transport links does Wells have compared to Yeovil, Taunton and Bridgwater?
Of course there is plenty of demand for buses coming into Wells and Street for 8.30 for Colleges and work. Of course there's going to be demand going out of Wells in the afternoon for schools and colleges, but there's likely to be more demand from Wells in the morning and to Wells in the evening.

Wells has a far superior bus service than Yeovil although the population of Wells, Glastonbury and Street combined is 31300, and Yeovil being 45000. I'm afraid rural bus services now are only used by people who are either too old, too young, too ill or too poor to drive. So no big profits for bus companies anymore.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wells has a far superior bus service than Yeovil although the population of Wells, Glastonbury and Street combined is 31300, and Yeovil being 45000. I'm afraid rural bus services now are only used by people who are either too old, too young, too ill or too poor to drive. So no big profits for bus companies anymore.

I think it's more nuanced than just comparing relative populations.

For Wells, you have two main corridors north to considerably larger centres. This means a greater pull effect - more employment opportunities and better shopping but also a greater potential for traffic being pushed out of those areas (grannies having a day in Glastonbury, tourists in Bath having a trip to Wells).

It's interesting to see what was introduced at RBG/RBC time for Sunday services; services around Taunton to the major towns have stayed (i.e. Wellington and Bridgwater) but not to the smaller towns (e.g. Chard). Around Yeovil, none survived the loss of council funds and neither did some of the more esoteric services (e.g Wells to Frome) and that perhaps illustrates the relative strength/critical mass for services in general.

IIRC, First did retain the 377 for a while on a use it or lose it basis.

Also, if I go back pre-RBG, the main daytime frequencies are actually generally better than they were:

29 was three hourly
54 was two hourly (with odd extra short or 54C in there)
376 was hourly to Bristol and two hourly to Yeovil
163 was two hourly
21 was half hourly
22 was half hourly (I think)
28 was hourly (with hourly shorts to Bishops Lydeard)
173 was hourly
126 was hourly (with hourly shorts Weston to Cheddar)

The issues are perhaps many:

The RBG funds etc provided a new baseline for expectations compared to the true post de-reg picture (1986-2001)
The cutting of council funds - even compared to the 1992 position, the loss of evening services on the 58, 21 and 22 for instance, as well as reductions on services
First deregistering marginal routes or, more often, just not being realistic with margin expectations and so losing tenders = loss of network traffic
ENCTS - most pronounced on local services where revenue has fallen whilst no likelihood of growth from additional patronage, meaning local services are under greater pressure

 

[swifty]

66327 back in Heart advert wrap on the 2 this evening. Even with the PVR drops there's still about 3 or 4 non branded buses everyday lately.

 

[vicbury]

That is a very metropolitan view. Car ownership amongst 17-30 year olds may well be at very low rates in major cities, but i doubt it has ever been higher out in the sticks. I'd suggest that one of the freedoms people escaping Bristol and Exeter are looking for is the possibility of owning their own transport and being able to park it near their property.

True however my experience of those who have moved to Taunton or Radstock / Midsomer Norton is that they tend to form one car households, rather than one car per adult households.

There's been a generational culture change where cars have gone from a status symbol to an unnecessary cost, especially with the housing market.

One area the larger bus (and rail) companies should explore is bundling car club membership with monthly or annual tickets. There are plenty of people (myself included) who reluctantly have a car for odd journey which genuinely needs one but would rather not be spending £50 per month on insurance, £100 per month on car payments, £300 per year on repairs etc etc.

 

[vicbury]

And that is a big reason why the main services from Wells that can sustain investment and enhanced frequencies head north, not south to a small town like Taunton!

The problem with Taunton is that much of the employment is found on sprawling edge of town estates.

One of the most important factors in commuting travel mode choice is land use density and parking (or rather, lack of it) at the place of work. Bristol and Bath have both been fairly successful at keeping jobs in the city centre with relatively restricted parking availability.

 

[ooo]

First now have a new website where you can leave feedback on your journey
https://www.firstbusfeedback.com/mybus/en

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[THarris123]

First now have a new website where you can leave feedback on your journey
https://www.firstbusfeedback.com/mybus/en

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Oh with pleasure. I'm sure there won't be enough room for my answers.

 

[Colly405]

So, I took a journey on the 72 today.

Firstly, I was surprised that it doesn't stop at the last westbound / first eastbound stop on Long Mead (stop called Longdown Ave), as it cuts through from Long Down Ave itself to Long Mead down the side of the Boston Tea Party. Checking Traveline, this is on there, I was just surprised. The First timetable leaflet map isn't clear...

Secondly, First's online publicity says that it operates via Wordsworth Road and Bonnington Walk, but that it will operate via Constable Road in the future. Well, it operated via Constable Rd today! Their timetable leaflet and Traveline both show it going via Constable Rd, so I'm not sure what is *supposed* to be happening...!

 

[diffywood]

just seen the new 90 timetable on traveline website - the frequency will increase to run every 7/8 minutes during the day Monday to Saturday - this will mean a combine 13 buses a hour during the day - a bit of a over kill for the 90 route

 

[THarris123]

just seen the new 90 timetable on traveline website - the frequency will increase to run every 7/8 minutes during the day Monday to Saturday - this will mean a combine 13 buses a hour during the day - a bit of a over kill for the 90 route

Oh the intelligence.

 

[freetoview33]

just seen the new 90 timetable on traveline website - the frequency will increase to run every 7/8 minutes during the day Monday to Saturday - this will mean a combine 13 buses a hour during the day - a bit of a over kill for the 90 route

So they can afford to do that, but not just run the 51 and be done with!

 

[Marcus Fryer]

So, I took a journey on the 72 today.

Firstly, I was surprised that it doesn't stop at the last westbound / first eastbound stop on Long Mead (stop called Longdown Ave), as it cuts through from Long Down Ave itself to Long Mead down the side of the Boston Tea Party. Checking Traveline, this is on there, I was just surprised. The First timetable leaflet map isn't clear...

I would never had guessed it would take that route - it does explain the lack of a timetable for it at the Longdown Avenue stop.

 

[winston270twm]

just seen the new 90 timetable on traveline website - the frequency will increase to run every 7/8 minutes during the day Monday to Saturday - this will mean a combine 13 buses a hour during the day - a bit of a over kill for the 90 route

Amazing how everyone see's the forthcoming Wessex competition on the 90 as a joke and causing congestion along the route, yet First can all of sudden justify doubling the frequency of their 90.....

 

[THarris123]

Amazing how everyone see's the forthcoming Wessex competition on the 90 as a joke and causing congestion along the route, yet First can all of sudden justify doubling the frequency of their 90.....

I'd like to think that most people on the forum see Firsts increase as a joke too. It's ridiculous.

Be interesting to see how well it does and what vehicles are used. Darts maybe?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Amazing how everyone see's the forthcoming Wessex competition on the 90 as a joke and causing congestion along the route, yet First can all of sudden justify doubling the frequency of their 90.....

Hi Winston

My twopenneth is that First have clearly targeted Wessex over the last three years; granted, Wessex have been guilty of First style complacency,

I have no issue with Wessex retaliating against First on the 90. Likewise, I can see why First have sought to protect that route; getting bent out of shape in respect of the actions of either firm seems not to understand the commercial environment. The issues would seem to be :

• The choice of the 90 as a place to have a fight - I could've expected going onto the 2 as it would allow a Wessex corridor with the 51 along the Wells Road and so help season tickets etc
• Linked to this, I'm not certain that there's that much trade for two firms and clearly the respective frequencies are clearly going to be unsustainable, so not really certain what Wessex's USP will be - First have very modern vehicles and the service was relatively frequent before these changes
• The hope First have sufficient drivers to cover these additional workings rather than impact on any other services

It's going to be interesting

 

[BBC]

Just seen the new livery for the 8/9! Look ok I guess....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some interesting fleet out last night

53813 on the 19 near Frenchay heading for Cribbs, 42907 working the 39 at Saltford, and 32004 giving some venerable traction on the 42.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some interesting fleet out last night

53813 on the 19 near Frenchay heading for Cribbs, 42907 working the 39 at Saltford, and 32004 giving some venerable traction on the 42.

 

[Marc]

So they can afford to do that, but not just run the 51 and be done with!

they havent got enough drivers to run the services they already have registered!! how can they cover this??

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

they havent got enough drivers to run the services they already have registered!! how can they cover this??

Who are "they"? Genuinely don't know if you mean Wessex or First. If the latter, it is something I have already mentioned!

 

[swifty]

Just seen the new livery for the 8/9! Look ok I guess....

47435 out on the 8 today it's very umm GWR!

 

[D2007wsm]

they havent got enough drivers to run the services they already have registered!! how can they cover this??

Hengrove currently have a surplus of drivers as a result of the 70 &71 transferring to Lawrence Hill

 

[Private Baxter]

Some interesting fleet out last night

53813 on the 19 near Frenchay heading for Cribbs, 42907 working the 39 at Saltford, and 32004 giving some venerable traction on the 42.

Solos are regulars on late night 19s. Almost daily in fact. Had the joys one evening doing virtually the whole route on the way back from Bath not too long ago.
Whilst on the topic, had the delights yesterday of the 19A from Parkway to Bath. That is a long route!

 

[smtglasgow]

The older I get, the more I reckon that direct competition between operators is a waste of resources. I know there are a few examples of successful competition raising the overall standard of service, but most skirmishes end up damaging at least one party, and a quick reversion to the previous fares/frequency. Very few corridors can support more than one operator. First’s response does seem over the top – would Wessex be justified in complaining of predatory behaviour? Is there actually anything in the licensing regulations that would compel First to maintain the higher service level if Wessex withdraw?