First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[TheGrandWazoo]

TGW. First depreciate vehicles in a 'straight line' (with exceptions I would expect) and so I don't believe there is a need to 'take a chunk' out. Other companies may be different.

True - they do straight line rather than RD but it isn't my point. Rather than having a higher amount of assets in an OpCo against a relatively weak equity position, you can reduce the imbalance and increase ROCE.

Stagecoach used to do it with Manchester, sending Tridents there for 2/3 years and then sending them to places like Gloucester. A smart way of updating the fleet without putting too much strain on the finances and, of course, this had patronage benefits so that they could then get new fleet eventually

 

[Blackpudding]

True - they do straight line rather than RD but it isn't my point. Rather than having a higher amount of assets in an OpCo against a relatively weak equity position, you can reduce the imbalance and increase ROCE.

Stagecoach used to do it with Manchester, sending Tridents there for 2/3 years and then sending them to places like Gloucester. A smart way of updating the fleet without putting too much strain on the finances and, of course, this had patronage benefits so that they could then get new fleet eventually

I agree the principle but doesn't increased ROCE require no other costs to increase. Costs such as maintenance will increase when the vehicle comes out of warranty just as the vehicle is being transferred. That Cornwall can invest in new vehicles when in the past they would have followed your thinking shows it's not the only route to follow.

 

[carlberry]

In Bristol Parkway this evening was a First coach from Cornwall returning it's registration to the area (530OHU) and an MMC liveried for service 1 that I'd assumed to be on rail replacement but was actually runing a normal service on the 73 which is bound to confuse people at Cribbs!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I agree the principle but doesn't increased ROCE require no other costs to increase. Costs such as maintenance will increase when the vehicle comes out of warranty just as the vehicle is being transferred. That Cornwall can invest in new vehicles when in the past they would have followed your thinking shows it's not the only route to follow.

Indeed, but many of those costs will increase anyway whether that is fuel, utilities or wages.

I didn't say that other ways of investing weren't available - after all, it was very de rigeur to flood certain depots with brand new fleet whether First in Bath or Arriva in Gillingham/Durham during the mid 2000s. That was another path though not trodden so much now.

As for Cornwall, that is an interesting point in that throughout its life as Western National as an NBC, quasi independent, Badgerline and First subsidiary, it always did justify having new fleet. Mind you, they also had their share of cascades both newer, midlife and elderly - it was the paucity of investment post 2005 that did for Cornwall. That said, the extent of this years' planned investment on top of last year is quite extraordinary.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

In Bristol Parkway this evening was a First coach from Cornwall returning it's registration to the area (530OHU) and an MMC liveried for service 1 that I'd assumed to be on rail replacement but was actually runing a normal service on the 73 which is bound to confuse people at Cribbs!

That coach was there all last week as well, although I never saw it move; its contract number was 8012, which might mean it's on standby. It's fleet number 23316.
The standard fare on the shuttle has been FWE B7RLE's, including 66728 and 66940; yesterday it was the one with the 'Heart' advert.
Should get more interesting next week when there will be buses to Yate and Filton and more to Patchway.

 

[ValleyLines142]

In Bristol Parkway this evening was a First coach from Cornwall returning it's registration to the area (530OHU) and an MMC liveried for service 1 that I'd assumed to be on rail replacement but was actually runing a normal service on the 73 which is bound to confuse people at Cribbs!

One of the 70/71 Pink Streetdecks was on the 6 a few weeks ago!

 

[Class 33]

Not much of interest atall this year in the September Bristol changes compared to previous years! Wonder if there will be more changes in November this year to accommodate the introduction of Metrobus? If so then there should be a VOSA preview of the changes within the next few weeks.

 

[THarris123]

Not much of interest atall this year in the September Bristol changes compared to previous years! Wonder if there will be more changes in November this year to accommodate the introduction of Metrobus? If so then there should be a VOSA preview of the changes within the next few weeks.

Oh almost definitely. I'm expecting a couple of small changes to Wells services (not 126) in November. I doubt much will happen in Bath and I suspect Bristol will see a bulk of major changes in November to fit in with Metrobus. Maybe we could see a recasting of the network?

 

[vicbury]

Oh almost definitely. I'm expecting a couple of small changes to Wells services (not 126) in November. I doubt much will happen in Bath and I suspect Bristol will see a bulk of major changes in November to fit in with Metrobus. Maybe we could see a recasting of the network?

My theory, and I stress it is only a theory, is that MetroBus might be used as a way to split the 75/76 in the city centre.

Otherwise I can't see anything major, especially with all the route branding that has happened in the last couple of years.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

My theory, and I stress it is only a theory, is that MetroBus might be used as a way to split the 75/76 in the city centre.

Otherwise I can't see anything major, especially with all the route branding that has happened in the last couple of years.

My gut feeling is that the 90 will be fairly substantially reduced - it is perhaps affected most by the changes. Even wonder if the Streetdecks may not move elsewhere...... now I'm rambling

The 75/76 may drop a little in frequency but I don't know if that much will change.

 

[Colly405]

Not much of interest atall this year in the September Bristol changes compared to previous years! Wonder if there will be more changes in November this year to accommodate the introduction of Metrobus? If so then there should be a VOSA preview of the changes within the next few weeks.

September changes in Bristol are more interesting if you look at the full picture and not just from First's perspective.

Significant changes to all the following...
10/11/11a/18/18a, 38/38a/349, 51, 77, 202, 615, 620/69, U1, 505, 506, 511, 512, 622, 623, 626, X62 plus many other routes with less significant changes.

 

[D2007wsm]

My gut feeling is that the 90 will be fairly substantially reduced - it is perhaps affected most by the changes. Even wonder if the Streetdecks may not move elsewhere...... now I'm rambling

The 75/76 may drop a little in frequency but I don't know if that much will change.

The Streetdecks would be perfect for Weston to use on the 7s to boost capacity. The aim is there to convert the 7s to be double decker operated, but there is not a set of enough vehicles available in the form of E400s or Streetdecks to the same standard or efficiancy of the Streetlites to currently do this.

On a side note, it is confirmed all of the B7RLEs will be leaving Weston Sunday including 66726 which is going to Wells with the 126 board.

 

[WessexBus Info]

In Bristol Parkway this evening was a First coach from Cornwall returning it's registration to the area (530OHU) and an MMC liveried for service 1 that I'd assumed to be on rail replacement but was actually runing a normal service on the 73 which is bound to confuse people at Cribbs!

I saw a 17 Gemini 1 on the 70 yesterday. Confusing. Especially on Muller Road.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Streetdecks would be perfect for Weston to use on the 7s to boost capacity. The aim is there to convert the 7s to be double decker operated, but there is not a set of enough vehicles available in the form of E400s or Streetdecks to the same standard or efficiancy of the Streetlites to currently do this.

On a side note, it is confirmed all of the B7RLEs will be leaving Weston Sunday including 66726 which is going to Wells with the 126 board.

I was thinking more of an interurban service heading East of Bristol that currently has mid-life deckers I confess that I don't know the W7 but is there really a need for it to be deckered (been singles for years aside from the odd poorly e400 being "kept local") or is that allied to some frequency reduction?

So with the changes on Sunday, is the plan that 47559-64 would head to Weston, 66726 heads to Wells (best replace that WM depot code!) and 66723/4/5/34 and 66936/43 head to Bristol depots? With the loss of the 77 and these 6, that will allow the remaining B7Ls to move on elsewhere....or is that too simplistic?

 

[swifty]

37345 and a bunch of drivers were out route learning on the U1 earlier this afternoon.

 

[matt_splat]

I was thinking more of an interurban service heading East of Bristol that currently has mid-life deckers I confess that I don't know the W7 but is there really a need for it to be deckered (been singles for years aside from the odd poorly e400 being "kept local") or is that allied to some frequency reduction?

So with the changes on Sunday, is the plan that 47559-64 would head to Weston, 66726 heads to Wells (best replace that WM depot code!) and 66723/4/5/34 and 66936/43 head to Bristol depots? With the loss of the 77 and these 6, that will allow the remaining B7Ls to move on elsewhere....or is that too simplistic?

i would expect deckering the W7 is a easy way to up the number of seats for passengers with out a increase in frequency and running costs similar to what was done with the 376

 

[Bristol_Buses]

Im surprised that the 42-45 hasn't got a new fleet this year or been branded yet. Surley its the next big batch of routes to be branded along with the 35. They may as well brand SN05HEJ as it is looking a little tatty.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Im surprised that the 42-45 hasn't got a new fleet this year or been branded yet. Surley its the next big batch of routes to be branded along with the 35. They may as well brand WX05HEJ as it is looking a little tatty.

Presumably it's the next set of routes to be done once the 3/4 is completed. I assume the remaining ALX400s will get branded for the 3/4, and the LK53s for the 42-45?

 

[THarris123]

Im surprised that the 42-45 hasn't got a new fleet this year or been branded yet. Surley its the next big batch of routes to be branded along with the 35. They may as well brand WX05HEJ as it is looking a little tatty.

42-45 will be due bio-gas buses in 2019, so how likely do you think it'll be that they'll be branded?

Routes 6/7 and 3/4 have had B7TLs painted, mostly to repaint the vehicles out of Barbie - and also because they have to last until the new biogas buses turn up.

I suspect SN05HEJ will be repainted, mostly because it is still in Barbie, although who knows if First will keep 35?

 

[D2007wsm]

I was thinking more of an interurban service heading East of Bristol that currently has mid-life deckers I confess that I don't know the W7 but is there really a need for it to be deckered (been singles for years aside from the odd poorly e400 being "kept local") or is that allied to some frequency reduction?

So with the changes on Sunday, is the plan that 47559-64 would head to Weston, 66726 heads to Wells (best replace that WM depot code!) and 66723/4/5/34 and 66936/43 head to Bristol depots? With the loss of the 77 and these 6, that will allow the remaining B7Ls to move on elsewhere....or is that too simplistic?

I believe the Streetlites are going to Weston to allow the 7 to be entirely Streetlite operated again. Yes the 7 could warrant Double deckers at times. It goes past 2 of the Weston College campuses, right past 2 secondary schools and within a 5 minutes walk of a 3RD. At times the B7RLEs were full and standing. As the Streetlites are smaller the need is there for double deckers during the day. The current arrangement where the buses on the 3s swap onto the 7s would be perfect to swap to a smaller bus at night.

It would be good if a fleet of E400s could be acquired for the 376 which can cope better on the route. Releasing the Streetdecks to Weston which would be better on a flat town service.

 

[Whiteway215]

First W of E in their official release about soon to happen changes have stated the U2 in Bath will be operated by singles 'due to residents' concerns.' (Not that I had doubted such information that had already been posted here). However should the singles prove to have insufficient capacity I think the students may have concerns if they can't get on to get to their University!

 

[D2007wsm]

First W of E in their official release about soon to happen changes have stated the U2 in Bath will be operated by singles 'due to residents' concerns.' (Not that I had doubted such information that had already been posted here). However should the singles prove to have insufficient capacity I think the students may have concerns if they can't get on to get to their University!

Perhaps this is a job for the Bendis, they're singles

 

[matt_splat]

Perhaps this is a job for the Bendis, they're singles

surely they would cause mayhem heading into town around moorland road and coronation avenue

 

[Whiteway215]

Perhaps this is a job for the Bendis, they're singles

Bendis on the U2 were discussed several months ago. I really don't think they could negotiate Coronation Avenue with all its chicanes. It is bad enough in a car let alone when a B7TL used to meet a short 475xx on the 1 to Southdown.

 

[Private Baxter]

Im surprised that the 42-45 hasn't got a new fleet this year or been branded yet. Surley its the next big batch of routes to be branded along with the 35. They may as well brand SN05HEJ as it is looking a little tatty.

I think the 35 is one of the few routes that won't get branded (although nothing to suggest they'll get rid of it), and whilst I'm sure the HEJ will be painted at some point, regretfully it probably keeps getting pushed to the back of the priority list.

 

[D2007wsm]

I think the 35 is one of the few routes that won't get branded (although nothing to suggest they'll get rid of it), and whilst I'm sure the HEJ will be painted at some point, regretfully it probably keeps getting pushed to the back of the priority list.

Currently there is a huge painting of vehicles for branded services, just over the couple of months we have seen the introduction of the purple 3 & 4, green 6 & 7 And GWR green 8s just in Bristol. Over the last year we've also seen the blue B7RLEs and Solo in Bath, the Mendip Explorer B7RLEs in Wells, the Mticket Streetlites and B7s, the Coasters in Weston, the A3 Streetlites in Weston and now they are in the process of painting Weston E400s and Stretlites into Excel orange. As well as the livery introduced on new vehicles.

It is certainly becoming very colourful in this area, particularly in Bristol, but it does stand out and look better than the mass of Barbie on the city centre not so long ago.

However I think a consorted effort should be put in to eradicate Barbie, it's over 4 years since Urban was introduced and it's still about. There are a fair few vehicles in Bath to be done, mostly Darts and Solos and and they look very tatty. Anything still in Barbie or an obsolete livery should be spruced up, before concentrating on route branding. As well as repaininting Urban liveries vehicles into a special livery, surely it would make sense to remain a Barbie liveries vehicle as then they are killing two birds with one stone, getting rid of Barbie and getting a promotional livery.

 

[matt_splat]

I think the 35 is one of the few routes that won't get branded (although nothing to suggest they'll get rid of it), and whilst I'm sure the HEJ will be painted at some point, regretfully it probably keeps getting pushed to the back of the priority list.

I doubt the 35 will get a brand i have been told that the small bus off the 35 does the late 349s from next week

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

i would expect deckering the W7 is a easy way to up the number of seats for passengers with out a increase in frequency and running costs similar to what was done with the 376

Well yeah but i guess that's the same with almost any route, low bridges not withstanding. Not knowing the W7 well, I'd have been surprised that there was some untapped growth potential.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I doubt the 35 will get a brand i have been told that the small bus off the 35 does the late 349s from next week

The 35 getting branded? I think the OP needs to consider why they brand services. To increase patronage. With the 35, it's tendered anyway and the growth potential is, I suggest, rather limited. Not withstanding that I travelled on 43849 the other week and it's threadbare so could do with some TLC!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Currently there is a huge painting of vehicles for branded services, just over the couple of months we have seen the introduction of the purple 3 & 4, green 6 & 7 And GWR green 8s just in Bristol. Over the last year we've also seen the blue B7RLEs and Solo in Bath, the Mendip Explorer B7RLEs in Wells, the Mticket Streetlites and B7s, the Coasters in Weston, the A3 Streetlites in Weston and now they are in the process of painting Weston E400s and Stretlites into Excel orange. As well as the livery introduced on new vehicles.

It is certainly becoming very colourful in this area, particularly in Bristol, but it does stand out and look better than the mass of Barbie on the city centre not so long ago.

However I think a consorted effort should be put in to eradicate Barbie, it's over 4 years since Urban was introduced and it's still about. There are a fair few vehicles in Bath to be done, mostly Darts and Solos and and they look very tatty. Anything still in Barbie or an obsolete livery should be spruced up, before concentrating on route branding. As well as repaininting Urban liveries vehicles into a special livery, surely it would make sense to remain a Barbie liveries vehicle as then they are killing two birds with one stone, getting rid of Barbie and getting a promotional livery.

To be fair, they are making a concerted effort to repaint - saw 32291 on the 1 yesterday and it's now the last barbie decker in Bristol after they've now done all the ex Southampton and Leicester ALXs.

There has been the tantalising repaint of one Solo but perhaps a) they will concentrate on the Excel repaints or b) they can now focus on other ones (like the 2005 Bath fleet) or c) they may not repaint if some are destined to move anyway. That's the case for the B7Ls but who knows what else will move now or when the various Metrobus phases kick in.

As an aside, after a few months running in blue, former 32684/5 have been repainted in urban in Leeds.